--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDR00002Date: 09/20/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 12:43pm \/To: TY MEISSNER (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Marijuana & Addiction TM> Hence, by your logic, people in htose states anre NOT out of TM> their minds but people in other states ARE outof their minds. TM> I don't think that the legal status of any substance has any TM> relation to its medical efficacy or its toxicity. there are TM> literally thousands of 100% legal substances that are 1,000,000 TM> % more toxic TM> than marijuana, morphine, opium, or cocaine. The reality is TM> that substances aren't legal or illegal based on their toxicity TM> or potential for harm. Such decisions (what is outlawed and TM> what is encouraged) are ALWAYS ENTIRELY political. TM> If marijuana, heroin, and cocaine were the drug of choice in the Why are you getting hung up on the word "legal"? There are plenty of parents who abused opium products when they were legal which is why we have the present laws on the books for cocaine and other opiods we have today. And making marijuana legal for any reason at all isn't going to change to very real damage that this drug has done to thousands. Just get thee to the nearest N.A. or A.A. meeting and listen up to the real experts on this and other harmful drugs. * SPITFIRE v3.5 --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDR00003Date: 09/20/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 12:59pm \/To: TY MEISSNER (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Marijuana & Addiction TM> CA, AZ, and VA when used as a bonafide medical treatment under TM> the reccomendation and supervision of a licensed medical doctor. TM> Hence, by your logic, people in htose states anre NOT out of TM> their minds but people in other states ARE outof their minds. Anyone who uses any drug that alters the mind is under its influence. That has been upheld in one court case after another throught this country,. That inclused at times amphetamines that alatered the minds just enough to cause some problems as well as other drugs that are mind altering. Insulin is another one that can also alter the mind. SO I THINK THAT ANYONE WHO USES THEM WHEN THERE ARE ANY OTHER ALTERNATIVES IS INSANE! And that goes for those who prescribe Naltrexone without trying remedial diets first. * SPITFIRE v3.5 --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDR00004Date: 09/20/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 09:57am \/To: STEVE KEMP (Read 1 times) Subj: Marijuana & Addictions SK> And, WHO are you speaking of? I've never met a drug addict that was SK> doing drugs to "fix" anything, except their pain...the taking of the SK> drug is often what CAUSES the pain, in the end it IS the SK> pain.....then,taking the drug it is what eases it. SK> You can call people "stupid" or illogical or any insult you SK> wish...thoseterms mean nothing. If you care, THEN CARE! Don't SK> insult...reach out! EVERY ADDICT WHO USES ANY DRUG IS DIRECTLY AFFECTING HIS OR HER BRAIN CHEMISTRY! And so is any doctor who prescribes any drug. The difference is that the doctor is supposed to know what the consequences of that action on the individual will be in advance. I say "suppsed" because they don't ask enough questions or have enough answers to know all of the time and do a lot of "Take this and see if it helps you" sort of thing. A drug addict is merely attempting to alter the brain chemistry that he or she was born with. Period. Without full understanding of what is involved. SK> Do you think people WANT to be addicted to drugs? Do you think that SK> condemning them to prison is the answer? Don't you think that they SK> WANTto stop? Got a clue (and I'm the man to state the FACTS), they DO SK> wantto stop. Remember? I'm the guy that was a drug addict. PLEASE, SK> remember...I said WAS. 21..25 c SK> And, WHO are you speaking of? I've never met a drug addict that was SK> doing drugs to "fix" anything, except their pain...the taking of the SK> drug is often what CAUSES the pain, in the end it IS the SK> pain.....then,taking the drug it is what eases it. SK> You can call people "stupid" or illogical or any insult you You know only your own history of use. Period. One person in a vast huge amount of folks with problems. And you also haven't the faintest idea of what I am saying so that you are very much at risk for using again when you get the pressures that caused you to use in the first place. Or the opportunity to use if you are presently incarcerated. I worked with people who were in jail over their drug use in the North Rehabilitation Facilty at Firlands in Seattle at one time. Learned as a jail nurse in the old King County Jail just what the lack of treatment there was all about with those I met on my rounds. I had the night shift at one time, potentially over 1,000 folks who might need my help on that shift. Went to the North Rehabilitation Facility to try to find out what would work INSEAD of just locking them up which doesn't. Last time I went into a jail to do a chemical dependency intake and evaluation was around 3 months ago. The local judge sent the person to mental health which also won't do any good. So the last time I did anything about the problem in this county was a couple of days ago when I buttonholed our county sherrif who I have written to before about addicts. I am trying to persuade him to put a trial project into the jail system, staffed by counselors instead of corrections officers. He wanted to know what I thought of the DARE program and I told him. So please, no lectures to me on what I don't know or do or care about inmates. At 69, I am still going strong on their behalf. * SPITFIRE v3.5 --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDR00005Date: 09/20/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 12:55pm \/To: STEVE KEMP (Read 1 times) Subj: Marijuana & Addictions SK> * Origin: CENTRAL PARK WEST - FOLSOM CA - 916.351.1476 PPI 33.6! I'm beginnig to think that the inmates there have nothing else to do but play with computers. * SPITFIRE v3.5 --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDR00006Date: 09/20/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 09:41am \/To: ALEX VASAUSKAS (Read 1 times) Subj: Marijuana as medicine AV> Considering that the reasearch demonstrates that marijuana has AV> no toxicological concern, it apparently takes only someone AV> disagreeing with your unfounded opinions to cause you to want AV> to kill them. There are over 2,000 chemicals in marijuana when it is being smoked which contain several that are highly toxic. That is one of the FACTS being suppressed by those who are hooked on this damnable noxious weed! There are other and more useful drugs for those who need relief from medical problems, drugs that have a much tighter control over undesirable side effects. That is also another FACT that is being suppressed No doctor in his right mind wants kids to have free access to this stuff. ANd they will if it is at all legal. * SPITFIRE v3.5 --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDR00007Date: 09/20/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 10:03am \/To: STEVE KEMP (Read 1 times) Subj: Marijuana as medicine SK> You really do have a problem. With all earnestness, I suggest that SK> youget help from a psychologist, psychiatrist, or medical SK> professional. SK> Wishing to murder people IS a psychopathology. Wishing to kill people SK> for their personal beliefs is also rather abhorrent....along with SK> beinga sign of sociopathology. Already been tested by one of the five Ph.D.'s in the nation who at one time were into some cockamanie theory about prisoners. Something about a curve that would indicate someone is a danger to society. I took a battery of tests, among them the MMPI when I was a student at Seattle University in Seattle in the Alcohol Studies Program there. The tests were administered by the Ph.D. who learned to his amazement that the same results could be also obtained from any genetic alcoholic! We tend to think as warrior tribes have thought for centuries, that killing people is a quick solution to problems brought on by deviants. That we don't do it more often is a credit to our upbrining and the rules that society puts up for this sort of thing. You will recognize that legal killing is still possible in our military, as a police officer, and in certain other situations. This does attract some of our folks who find a certain satisfaction in these types of jobs. I have a perfect criminal personality curce. So does every other genetic alcoholic. It is why society finds that we are impossible for it to control, drunk or sober, and why most of us are perfectly able to control ourselves, left alone to do so. * SPITFIRE v3.5 --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDR00008Date: 09/20/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 12:54pm \/To: ALEX VASAUSKAS (Read 1 times) Subj: Marijuana as medicine AV> Considering that the reasearch demonstrates that marijuana has AV> no toxicological concern, it apparently takes only someone AV> disagreeing with your unfounded opinions to cause you to want AV> to kill them. There is plenty of evidence in print that pot has very dangerous chemicals in it when smoked, over 2,000 of them. You read only what you please, not what is trying to make this point. AV> An example of irresponsible use by a few people with prexisting AV> psychological problems. In any event, this is irrelevant to AV> any discussion other than one pointing out that some people AV> create their own problems. The fact that someone is AV> irresponsible or otherwise has a problem does not justify AV> preventing a vast majority of other adults -- particularly ones AV> for whom this herb has significant, medicinal benefits, from using AV> it responsibly. We discovered a long time ago that many people cannot be responsible when under the influence of mind altering drugs. that is why we have the present federal legislation on the books...to keep parents from dosing their kids up with opiates to get them to sleep, for instance as was done at one time. 80% of those who consume alcohol can do so without harm to themselves or anyone else, yet we control the sale of alcholic beverages. So your argument won't hold water in any court in this land. * SPITFIRE v3.5 --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDR00009Date: 09/20/97 From: TY MEISSNER Time: 05:24am \/To: BRENDA LEE (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Closed minds -=> On 09-17-97 00:34, Brenda Lee typed to Ty Meissner <=- -=> Re: Closed minds <=- Hi Brenda, BL> Excuse me sir, for being disrespectiveful, but when have we become a BL> communistic country, where no one can state their opinion on anything BL> that is talked about here. Who chose that you were the only one to BL> speak about this, did someone make you God, all of a sudden that we are BL> not aware of. You may have an important position, but I don't believe BL> that you have the right to tell us what we can and cannot talk BL> about.....We are talking about a subject that is highly publicized, and You are wrong Brenda. You are NOT in a public area. You are in a private area of cyberspace where the first amendment does NOT apply to private property. You are here at the sufferance of Fidonet system operators. What they say goes. As a casual user, you have absolutely no rights whatsoever. Only Fidonet administrators and BBS sysops have rights. End of subject. Regards, Ty |\ zz _,,,--,,_ ,) Ty Meissner, Psych Tech E-mail: y.meissner@grape.net /,`.-'`' -, ;-;;' "I'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for {,4- ) )-,_ ) /\ justice no matter who it's for or against. I'm a uman <---''(_/--' (_/- being first and foremost and I am for whoever and . . whatever benefots humanity as a whole." -- Malcolm X ... DO NOT ADJUST YOUR MIND - the fault is with reality. ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0507 * Origin: The Electronic Grapevine [707] 257-2338 (1:161/910) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDR00010Date: 09/20/97 From: TY MEISSNER Time: 02:37pm \/To: STEVE KEMP (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Marijuana as medicine -=> On 09-16-97 23:43, Steve Kemp typed to Jane Kelley <=- -=> Re: Marijuana as medicine <=- Hi Steve, JK> There has been plenty of scientific research done in both this JK>nation and Canada to substantiate shooting anyone who wants to JK>legalize that drug! SK> You really do have a problem. With all earnestness, I suggest that you SK> get help from a psychologist, psychiatrist, or medical professional. SK> Wishing to murder people IS a psychopathology. Wishing to kill people SK> for their personal beliefs is also rather abhorrent....along with SK> being a sign of sociopathology. I think you hit the nail on the head. Except that in this strange world of cyberspace: It A-OK to advocate murder and lynching (of ideological enemies). But any talk about a benign herb with important medical benefits is ILLEGAL. Those are the rules imposed by the ONLY rulemaker (our host). As a BBS user and conference participant, your presence and your expressions exist here entirely at the sufferance of the host who has EVERY RIGHT to expell you and anyone else from this conference without any particular reason. If a host doesn't care for your opinions, he has every right to SILENCE YOU. A lot of people make a simple mistake. They assume that because THEY are located in America, they are protected by the constitution and other laws of the land. Nothing could be more off base. Cyberspace is PRIVATE PROPERTY belonging to the owners of the networks ! That is the legal reality. Regards, Ty |\ zz _,,,--,,_ ,) Ty Meissner, Psych Tech E-mail: y.meissner@grape.net /,`.-'`' -, ;-;;' "I'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for {,4- ) )-,_ ) /\ justice no matter who it's for or against. I'm a uman <---''(_/--' (_/- being first and foremost and I am for whoever and . . whatever benefots humanity as a whole." -- Malcolm X ... The buck doesn't even slow down here. ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0507 * Origin: The Electronic Grapevine [707] 257-2338 (1:161/910) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDR00011Date: 09/20/97 From: TY MEISSNER Time: 02:49pm \/To: DIA SPRIGGS (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Medical *Censored* -=> On 09-18-97 06:45, Dia Spriggs typed to Tony Peardon <=- -=> Re: Re: Medical *Censored* <=- Hi Dia, DS> If you wish to take , use or whatever you wish to do with this drug DS> is your business...we've had enough talk on this subject. The fact DS> remains that no matter what your opinion is this is an illegal ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ DS> substance. Suggesting the wonders of this when it is not readily ^^^^^^^^^^ DS> legally available is not what this echo is about. WHy not spend some DS> time researching substances with similiar wonderous properties that CAN DS> be available to users of this echo! Hello moderator Dia, With all due respect, as moderator, do you feel that you have an obligation to be truthful ? If so, why do you continue to prevaricate about the legality of substances ? A truthful person would ADMIT that, unlike in the UK where you reside, laws vary from state to state, here in the USA. For instance, in the states of California, Arizona, and Virginia, certain herbs are legal for medicinal use, just like any other prescription drugs. If you wish to declare certain medicinal herbs becuase of your personal prejudices that's fine. Fidonet rules say that you can make up any rule you want, and enforce it without any regard for truth, honesty, or fairness, that's fine. In fact, Fidonet encourages moderators to be arbitrary and unfair because democracy is NOT a tradition that is welcome in Fidonet. But to do so on the basis of some patently bogus allegations about the law is totally uninformed or dishonest and beneath you. So why not be an HONEST TYRANT ? Do you really want to portray yourself as a prevaricating burocrat ? I'm sure you don't. Regards, Ty |\ zz _,,,--,,_ ,) Ty Meissner, Psych Tech E-mail: y.meissner@grape.net /,`.-'`' -, ;-;;' "I'm for truth, no matter who tells it. I'm for {,4- ) )-,_ ) /\ justice no matter who it's for or against. I'm a uman <---''(_/--' (_/- being first and foremost and I am for whoever and . . whatever benefots humanity as a whole." -- Malcolm X ... Lurena Bobbit for Surgeon General! ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0507 * Origin: The Electronic Grapevine [707] 257-2338 (1:161/910)