--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDM00019Date: 09/15/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 01:55pm \/To: GEORGE LAGERGREN (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Pain GL> Jane --> Also, add to the above list: essential fatty GL> acids [EFAs]. Also try to lessen any food allergies. I've found a female naturopathic doctor! Honest. She knew what the pain was that I described as being "left over" after I started the glucosamine and that it didn't respond as the other arthritic pain to exercise but did go away when I became quiet. I am taking a couple of her remedies starting today which should get rid of the knee pain.....Bryonia Alba and something called Spectra 405-R which is herbal. There is Devil's Claw root, Yucca, Tumeric root, Boswella, Licorice, Chinese Thoroughwax rt., white willow bark, stinging nettle, and bromelain in it. I am supposed to take six of those a day, will start out low and work up. Then I am also supposed to use slippery elm and marshmellow root if I have any bladder problems. And, or course, drink more water. * SPITFIRE v3.5 --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDM00020Date: 09/16/97 From: DIA SPRIGGS Time: 07:46pm \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Marijuana Ok....let's get on with other topics. Since MJ is usually NOT available to the general public, legally and probably never will be..in this country at least and there ARE many other things that would benefit the readers of this echo...let's STOP the discussion of MJ as of now. I do believe there are echos which go on and go about how great this is. However, this is NOT one of them. It seems like there are some people here that no matter what they insist that they WILL keep posting on and on and on jsut to annoy the rest of us. Ok..article have been submitted, opinions have been given...MOVE ON!!!! --- D'Bridge 1.30/002111 * Origin: THE SOURCE BBS Miami, Fla 305-624-2190 135/68 (1:135/68) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDM00021Date: 09/15/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 07:29pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Marijuana & Addictions JANE KELLEY was thinking about Marijuana & Addictions and keyed into cyberspace: JK>I think that anyone who uses an illegal drug to attempt to "fix" his JK>or her natural brain chemistry is out of his or her mind. That is the finest Jane-ism I have ever read. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDM00022Date: 09/15/97 From: ALEX VASAUSKAS Time: 07:34am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Marijuana as medicine Jane Kelley wrote in a message to Alex Vasauskas: AV> There was no scientific research supporting the legislation, Jane. AV> In fact, the AMA's position that it wanted marijuana to continue to AV> be available had to be misrepresented to Congress in order for the AV> original prohibition legislation to pass. And, of course, the AV> legislation was not reversed after the AMA denounced this legislative AV> fraud. AV> As pointed out by the Merck Manual, the primary objection to AV> marijuana is POLITICAL -- NOT TOXICOLOGICAL. Moreover, the DEA's AV> hearings reviewing ALL of the scientific and medical research, and JK> JK> There has been plenty of scientific research done in both this JK> nation and Canada to substantiate shooting anyone who wants to JK> legalize that drug! Considering that the reasearch demonstrates that marijuana has no toxicological concern, it apparently takes only someone disagreeing with your unfounded opinions to cause you to want to kill them. JK> It has caused the death of several kids in one JK> daughter's high school class when combined with alcohol and JK> automobiles after midnight. This demonstrates that irresponsible use and not that the drug itself caused anything. As the DEA's hearings regarding rescheduling marijuana have demonstrated, unlike aspirin, which kills hundreds a year, and alcohol, which is also toxic, there is no record of marijuana ever killing anyone. JK> It has made it impossible for others JK> to obtain and hold a decent job. An example of irresponsible use by a few people with prexisting psychological problems. In any event, this is irrelevant to any discussion other than one pointing out that some people create their own problems. The fact that someone is irresponsible or otherwise has a problem does not justify preventing a vast majority of other adults -- particularly ones for whom this herb has significant, medicinal benefits, from using it responsibly. JK> The Merck Manual is not the primary tool of those who deal with JK> minds affected by pot or other drugs. The DSM IV is, and it states JK> that marijuna is not at all what you claim it to be but a very JK> dangerous and noxious weed. The Merck Manual is authoritative regarding the effect of drugs, considering that it is relied upon by even the armed forces as an authority regarding drugs, I am surprised that it has not been "politically corrected" to represent the administration's prohibitionist viewpoint. To the extent that the DSM IV has value, I have previously cited to you the pages that discuss marijuana and quoted the language to you that contradicts your representations and supports what I have been saying. But, you refuse to read it (or to understand it), and you continue to repeat your same old discredited line. This is just another version of the child who closes her eyes, covers her ears, and shouts "la la la la" when she wants to ignore anything but what she wants to say or do. Give it a rest Jane. --- * Origin: 61 deg. 25' N / 149 deg. 40' W (1:17/75) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDM00023Date: 09/17/97 From: BRENDA LEE Time: 12:34am \/To: TY MEISSNER (Read 1 times) Subj: Closed minds KPTM> As a certified California Peace Officer, I can tell you that * I TM> ONLY I * am permitted to DISCUSS medical marijuana. TM> TM> Anyone else, conference hosts included are committing a felony by TM> talking about this illegal drug and is subject to a MINIMUM of 10 TM> years in federal prison. TM> TM> YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. TM> TM> cc: Attorney General Dan Lundgren, Sacramento, CA Excuse me sir, for being disrespectiveful, but when have we become a communistic country, where no one can state their opinion on anything that is talked about here. Who chose that you were the only one to speak about this, did someone make you God, all of a sudden that we are not aware of. You may have an important position, but I don't believe that you have the right to tell us what we can and cannot talk about.....We are talking about a subject that is highly publicized, and want to know more about.....I do believe that if you look at the laws, that you are violating ours, the last time I looked at the laws, they said we could speak on what we wanted to, as long as we didn't slander anyone, or cause them any harm....Whether it be legal or illegal, we are stating our opinions, and if I am not mistaken the law allows that......If we have become a communistic country, then someone better hurry up and tell me, because the next post that you get from me will be from prison..Because I am known for stating my opinion about everything...... ... QMPro 1.52 Sex instructor, first lesson free. --- Whats NEXT SB&)$N * Origin: The Scrap Bin, Hampton, VA (757)825-9502, 9503 (1:271/320) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDM00024Date: 09/17/97 From: GEORGE LAGERGREN Time: 01:38pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Pain -=> Quoting Jane Kelley to George Lagergren <=- GL> Jane --> Also, add to the above list: essential fatty GL> acids [EFAs]. Also try to lessen any food allergies. JK> JK> I've found a female naturopathic doctor! Honest. She knew what the JK> pain was that I described as being "left over" after I started the JK> glucosamine and that it didn't respond as the other arthritic pain to JK> exercise but did go away when I became quiet. Jane, You may want to ask your N.D. what she think about taking aloe vera and digestive enemzyes, too for arthritic pain. ... "Scotty, beam me up another Blue Wave message." ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] --- Amie v0.98 * Origin: The Edge BBS * Severn, MD * (410)551-2586 (1:261/1454) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDM00025Date: 09/16/97 From: STEVE KEMP Time: 10:23pm \/To: TY MEISSNER (Read 1 times) Subj: Closed minds TM> SK> Damn. I think people are over reacting, a little. What Ty posted TM> SK> MUST HAVE BEEN a joke. I mean it's absurdity is the clue. I take TM> SK> it as a half joke/half statement AGAINST censorship. I mean, it TM> SK> must be. But, I may be wrong. :) TM> You weren't wrong. :-) You may have read the moderator's TM> admonition that discussion of illegal substances was prohibited TM> here. I JUST saw something to that effect. Thing is, Marijuana ISN'T illegal, everywhere. It is as legal as any other prescription drug in California, and some other states. It is under study, AGAIN. I would consider it an appropriate subject for AltMed. It is an alternative method to standard drug treatments for nausea, and such, in certain situations. Along with other possible applications. Considering that Marijuana is the most studied "drug" ever, and it has been found to be one of the safest EVER. I'd say it would be more reasonable to discuss it that some of these concoctions, herbs, and "home remedies" that truly might have life-threatening consequences if taken with disregard that are being hyped on here from time to time. AltMed should be about MEDICINE....not about legality, either. For if advocating breaking the law in using Marijuana is the point....then, advocating these possibly harmful concoctions should not be allowed either. But that is, of course, silly. NOONE should take ANYTHING that is discussed on here without a medical doctor's opinion and advise....so, the "Marijuana is illegal" point of Dia's is moot. Well, unless she wishes to take personal liability for anyone that takes one of these "home remedies" and dies (either because of direct toxic effects or from that person not seeing a doctor about their ailment). Openness in debate is an essential point in having an "Alternative Medicine" forum. The very name suggests this...the very subject demands it. It is hoped, by me at least, that it be allowed. TM> If you're in California, Arizona, or Virginia where its legal TM> for medical uses, I guess you can talk about it. But if you're TM> in those states where medical marijuana is still illegal, its TM> still not permitted to talk about it here. As per Dia's recommendation, I guess so. Strange but true. Qualified opinions seem to be in order, on this subject, at least. Regards, Steve --- * CMPQwk #1.42* Silence IS NOT golden. --- HyperMail! v1.22 * Origin: CENTRAL PARK WEST - FOLSOM CA - 916.351.1476 PPI 33.6! (1:203/1476) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDM00026Date: 09/16/97 From: STEVE KEMP Time: 11:45pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Marijuana & Addicti [1/3 JK>AV> Consider what is demonstrated about the source in the statement JK>AV> above. Someone who says that all drugs have the same effect JK>AV> doesn't have a clue. Check out the research, Jane. Digitalis, JK>AV> opium, and caffeine each affect the body differently. JK> JK> You are grasping at straws. Digitalis is rarely an abused drug. So JK>is any form of thyroid. However, antibiotics given in too great JK>amounts can and have damaged human beings. Perhaps you need JK>clarification by saying that the most commonly abused drugs will JK>tend to leave permanent damage to the cerebral area of the brain. JK> Instead of quibbling, why don't you go find out what Post Drug JK>Impairment Syndrome is all about and report back to us? Damn people...READ what Jane just posted. Is that the most NON-medical pap you have EVER seen? This from A NURSE? I don't think so. Cerebral area of the brain? Form of thyroid? --- * CMPQwk #1.42* I'm not an actor, I just play one on television. --- HyperMail! v1.22 * Origin: CENTRAL PARK WEST - FOLSOM CA - 916.351.1476 PPI 33.6! (1:203/1476) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDM00027Date: 09/16/97 From: STEVE KEMP Time: 10:38pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Marijuana & Addictions JK>I think that anyone who uses an illegal drug to attempt to "fix" his JK>or her natural brain chemistry is out of his or her mind. How about LEGAL drugs? Are doctors INSANE to prescribe Lithium to manic/depressives, for example? Is it the illegality that bothers you? Or is it the use of drugs? I've seen you speak of herbal concoctions....got a clue for you, they are drugs. AltMeds. Some of the new ones will be illegal drugs in the future. Maybe YOU are a drug pusher, without knowing it. You are advocating drugs that you have little or no knowledge of. It's obvious that you know nothing of the drugs that we have already been speaking of. And, WHO are you speaking of? I've never met a drug addict that was doing drugs to "fix" anything, except their pain...the taking of the drug is often what CAUSES the pain, in the end it IS the pain.....then, taking the drug it is what eases it. You can call people "stupid" or illogical or any insult you wish...those terms mean nothing. If you care, THEN CARE! Don't insult...reach out! Don't "have the answer"....look for one. To do less is to be unfeeling and callous to a truly horrid situation. Do you think people WANT to be addicted to drugs? Do you think that condemning them to prison is the answer? Don't you think that they WANT to stop? Got a clue (and I'm the man to state the FACTS), they DO want to stop. Remember? I'm the guy that was a drug addict. PLEASE, remember...I said WAS. thank you, Steve --- * CMPQwk #1.42* Silence is violence, just like a swift kick. --- HyperMail! v1.22 * Origin: CENTRAL PARK WEST - FOLSOM CA - 916.351.1476 PPI 33.6! (1:203/1476) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDM00028Date: 09/16/97 From: STEVE KEMP Time: 11:43pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Marijuana as medicine JK> There has been plenty of scientific research done in both this JK>nation and Canada to substantiate shooting anyone who wants to JK>legalize that drug! You really do have a problem. With all earnestness, I suggest that you get help from a psychologist, psychiatrist, or medical professional. Wishing to murder people IS a psychopathology. Wishing to kill people for their personal beliefs is also rather abhorrent....along with being a sign of sociopathology. --- * CMPQwk #1.42* Get thee to the Psych ward, with a quickness. --- HyperMail! v1.22 * Origin: CENTRAL PARK WEST - FOLSOM CA - 916.351.1476 PPI 33.6! (1:203/1476)