--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDC00004Date: 09/06/97 From: TY MEISSNER Time: 12:02am \/To: GEORGE LAGERGREN (Read 1 times) Subj: pvt patent on public prop On 09-03-97 00:02, George Lagergren typed to Ty Meissner regarding: => Pharmacutical company <= Hello George, ------------------- snip ! 8< --------------------- GL> Ty --> The drug companies are also trying patent "lab-made" GL> herbs as if they are the same as "nature made" herbs. GL> If the patent offices grants a patent on a "lab made" herb GL> as if to cover the "nature made" herb ,too, herb consumers are GL> really in trouble. Its much worse than you think. I'm not terribly worried about those folks who can afford to buy their herbs at the health food stores. I'm much more concerned about the rice farmers in Bangladesh, the corn farmers in central America, and the wheat farmers in China and central Asia who will have to pay stiff licensing fees to global corporations, for the "priviledge" of using THEIR OWN seed stock developed by their ancestors and owned in common by many generations of farmers. Pay the license fees or face confiscation or destruction of their crops. Its every bit as pernicious and insidious as slavery was. Its corporate colonialism, new world order style. You are about to lose your (ever fewer remaining) rights as a citizen, a consumer, and a worker, to an undemocratic authoritarian one world government of corporations, UNLESS YOU AND OTHERS ACT NOW to turn things around. Its called the WIPO treaty and its part of the global government created by the GATT. President Clinton has asked congress for "fast track" (i.e: no discussion or debate of the issue - just a straight up or down vote on an agreement that most congresspersons have not read and don't really understand) authority to implement the next stage of these agreements that are costing you the rights which our forefathers and mothers fought and died for. Regards, Ty . Ty Meissner . E-MAIL: Ty.meissner@grape.net I will sleep and dream like the air, and move like the wind, with assion when it pleases me. The Universe is not up there... Its here, and we're in it, third rock out from the sun. - Peter Spiro ... Don't beat me MR. Moderator...I go back on topic...Honest!! ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0507 * Origin: The Electronic Grapevine [707] 257-2338 (1:161/910) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDC00005Date: 09/07/97 From: TY MEISSNER Time: 12:32pm \/To: GEORGE LAGERGREN (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Vaccines On 08-29-97 13:07, George Lagergren typed to Mark Probert regarding: => Vaccines <= Hello George, -=> Quoting Mark Probert to Brian Shaw <=- MP> Someone just emailed me about vaccines and how they are the products MP> of various conspiracies. I burned their computer down. GL> Mark --> As mentioned above, there is a lot of debate about GL> vaccines. For example, take polio. There ia a polio GL> vaccine to prevent a person from catching polio. There are GL> some who say this vaccine has caused the polio virus to GL> mutate into the virus which causes the chronic fatigue GL> symdrome (CFS) virus. What scientific evidence for this exists ? The last I heard, the cause of CFS was still undetermined. GL> So does one skip the vaccine to GL> avoid the future event but risk catching the current event GL> (polio) ??? GL> A "catch-22" situation. I, myself, prefer getting the GL> vaccine. Its ONLY a "catch 22" situation if you buy into current old wives tales and urban mythology which is exemplified by the notion you report. I reccomend as a great read, Carl Sagan's _Demon Haunted World_ which deals directly with the current rise of psuedo-science, bad science, tabloid science ( or even Fidonet science ). Future historians will note that one of the Internets profound effects was to afford an international forum with a false appearance of credibilty to millions of kooks and self professed prophets and experts who never before had access to such a wide audience to con. Is it coincidence that at the same time we are being flooded with unprecedented volumes of misinformation and disinformation, that our traditional mainstream media has become tabloidized ? If you confine your medical knowledge to hard facts and exclude wild speculations, you are less likely to find yourself in such situations. There are those (popular on the talk show circuit) who advise parents AGAINST vaccinating their children because one out of every 200,000 or so had an undesirable or atypical reaction to the vaccine. The cost (economic and human/emotional) of treating the preventable illnesses which result from this foolish notion far, far exceed those of the few cases of atypical reactions to the vaccines. Regards, Ty . Ty Meissner . E-MAIL: Ty.meissner@grape.net I will sleep and dream like the air, and move like the wind, with assion when it pleases me. The Universe is not up there... Its here, and we're in it, third rock out from the sun. - Peter Spiro ... I used up all my sick days, so I'm calling in dead. --- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0507 * Origin: The Electronic Grapevine [707] 257-2338 (1:161/910) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDD00000Date: 09/08/97 From: GEORGE LAGERGREN Time: 01:52pm \/To: TY MEISSNER (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: pvt patent on public prop -=> Quoting Ty Meissner to George Lagergren <=- TM> I'm much more concerned about the rice farmers in Bangladesh, TM> the corn farmers in central America, and the wheat farmers in TM> China and central Asia who will have to pay stiff licensing fees TM> to global corporations, for the "priviledge" of using THEIR OWN TM> seed stock developed by their ancestors and owned in common by TM> many generations of farmers. Ty --> Do you really mean that the seed companies that have developed a "lab-made" seed can force farmers who use their "nature's made" [because chemically it is the same seed] seed [not even purchased from the "lab made" seed company], will have to pay royalities. And will this not create conflict between the "nature's made" seed companies and "lab made" seed companies OR will the "lab made" seed companies crush the nature seed companies thru the means of an INTERNATIONAL TREATY??? TM> Its every bit as pernicious and insidious as slavery was. TM> Its corporate colonialism, new world order style. Ty --> Sounds like an international corporate colonialism dictatorship. TM> You are about to lose your (ever fewer remaining) rights as a TM> citizen, a consumer, and a worker, to an undemocratic TM> authoritarian one world government of corporations, UNLESS YOU TM> AND OTHERS ACT NOW to turn things around. TM> Its called the WIPO treaty and its part of the global government TM> created by the GATT. President Clinton has asked congress for TM> "fast track" (i.e: no discussion or debate of the issue - just a TM> straight up or down vote on an agreement that most TM> congresspersons have not read and don't really understand) TM> authority to implement the next stage of these agreements that TM> are costing you the rights which our forefathers and mothers TM> fought and died for. TM> Regards, Ty --> By the way, what do the initials WIPO stand for? Also, can congress persons like Senator Hatch stop the "fast track" steamroller? ... "Scotty, beam me up another Blue Wave message." ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] --- Amie v0.98 * Origin: The Edge BBS * Severn, MD * (410)551-2586 (1:261/1454) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDD00001Date: 09/08/97 From: GEORGE LAGERGREN Time: 01:52pm \/To: TY MEISSNER (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Vaccines -=> Quoting Ty Meissner to George Lagergren <=- TM> On 08-29-97 13:07, George Lagergren typed to Mark Probert TM> regarding: => Vaccines <= MP> Someone just emailed me about vaccines and how they are the products MP> of various conspiracies. I burned their computer down. GL> Mark --> As mentioned above, there is a lot of debate about GL> vaccines. For example, take polio. There ia a polio GL> vaccine to prevent a person from catching polio. There are GL> some who say this vaccine has caused the polio virus to GL> mutate into the virus which causes the chronic fatigue GL> symdrome (CFS) virus. TM> What scientific evidence for this exists ? The last I heard, TM> the cause of CFS was still undetermined. Ty --> I do not know. I only read it somewhere. GL> So does one skip the vaccine to GL> avoid the future event but risk catching the current event GL> (polio) ??? GL> A "catch-22" situation. I, myself, prefer getting the GL> vaccine. TM> notion you report. I reccomend as a great read, Carl Sagan's TM> _Demon Haunted World_ which deals directly with the current rise TM> of psuedo-science, bad science, tabloid science ( or even Fidonet TM> science ). Future historians will note that one of the Internets Ty --> Thanks for the info. TM> parents AGAINST vaccinating their children because one out of TM> every 200,000 or so had an undesirable or atypical reaction to TM> the vaccine. TM> The cost (economic and human/emotional) of treating the TM> preventable illnesses which result from this foolish notion far, TM> far exceed those of the few cases of atypical reactions to the TM> vaccines. Ty --> I agree. I prefer the vaccine over the disease. Thanks again for your info and post. ... "Scotty, beam me up another Blue Wave message." ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] --- Amie v0.98 * Origin: The Edge BBS * Severn, MD * (410)551-2586 (1:261/1454) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDD00002Date: 09/08/97 From: GEORGE LAGERGREN Time: 01:52pm \/To: TY MEISSNER (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Open minds -=> Quoting Ty Meissner to Mark Probert <=- TM> from arresting you on trumped up charges to a SLAPP suit, to Ty --> What does SLAPP stand for? ... "Scotty, beam me up another Blue Wave message." ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] --- Amie v0.98 * Origin: The Edge BBS * Severn, MD * (410)551-2586 (1:261/1454) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDD00003Date: 09/08/97 From: DAVID WILSON Time: 07:57pm \/To: U.S. READERS (Read 1 times) Subj: Upcoming Legislation Reprinted from Dr. Julian Whitaker's "Health & Healing", Sept.97, Vol.7 No.9 There is a tendency for both federal and state government agencies to "criminalize" medical therapies that are not prescription drugs or surgery. Even conventional physicians who are interested in more natural therapies rarely use them for fear of harassment, censure, or even revocation of their licenses. This impacts not only physicians, but you, the patient, because it eliminates your right to chose whatever medical care you desire. One of the most common complaints of "Health and Healing" subscribers is the inability to find physicians who employ the therapies I discuss. Considering the political climate, it's easy to see why. However, a bill currently before Congress may change that. It's called the "Access to Medical Treatment Act", and it gives you the right to use the medical practitioners and therapies of your choice. It will free doctors to practice medicine as they see fit, without worry of office raids and medical license threats, and it contains adequate patient safeguards against dangerous medical therapies. This is the way medicine should be practiced. However, the powerful forces of conventional medicine do not want this bill passed, as they want to continue to criminalize those who choose to walk a different path. FOR YOUR OWN SAKE, PLEASE SUPPORT THIS BILL. Call your Senators and Representative immediately to get this legislative relief. You may reach them by calling the Capitol Hill switchboard at 202/224-3121. Say that you support Senate Bill #578 and House Bill #746, the Access to Medical Treatment Act. It's an easy phone call, and could pay major dividends for you and your family. I have made this call and in fact wrote every Member of Congress urging support of these bills. Julian Whitaker, M.D. --- InterEcho 1.18 * Origin: IC_STARS BBS * Madawaska,ME USA* 207-728-6427 (1:326/438) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDD00004Date: 09/07/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 04:59pm \/To: GEORGE LAGERGREN (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: ADD Problem GEORGE LAGERGREN was thinking about Re: ADD Problem and keyed into cyberspace: GL>-=> Quoting Mark Probert to All <=- GL> MP> NEW YORK (Reuters) -- Psychiatrists are now treating a flood of GL> MP> adults for attention deficit disorder (ADD), a syndrome often GL> MP> thought of as a disorder of childhood. GL> MP> Once diagnosed, most adult ADD patients turn to Ritalin, a drug GL> MP> thought to increase levels of the brain chemical dopamine. Many GL> MP> researchers believe a shortage of dopamine is behind ADD GL> MP> behaviors. GL> Mark --> A person with ADD would probably be treated GL> differently depending on whether person seeks help from a GL> natrapathic doctor [ N.D ] verus a medical doctor [ M.D ]. Absolutely. A naturopathic "doctor" would give him something that has no effect, and a medical doctor would give the patient, as part of a comprehensive treatment protocol, tested and reliable medication. GL> A N.D. believe an person with ADD can and should be treated GL> with nutrition while a M.D. would treat that person with GL> chemicals. Right. A naturopathic "doctor" would treat a person who does not have a nutritionally based condition with something that is useless. Let me give you a clue: to "treat" something nutritionally, requires the ingestion of chemicals. Do you subscribe to the fairy tale that there is something magical or mystical in a naturally occurring chemical which is not present in one that is manufactured? GL> Thus, the debate between natrapathic [ ALTMED ] and allopathic GL> medicine. There is no debate. One works. One doesn't. To say otherwise is using ALT-LOGIC. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDF00000Date: 09/07/97 From: KATHY PEARDON Time: 11:07am \/To: TY MEISSNER (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Closed minds TM> As a certified California Peace Officer, I can tell you that * I a TM> ONLY I * am permitted to DISCUSS medical marijuana. TM> TM> Anyone else, conference hosts included are committing a felony by TM> talking about this illegal drug and is subject to a MINIMUM of 10 TM> years in federal prison. TM> TM> YOU HAVE BEEN WARNED. TM> TM> cc: Attorney General Dan Lundgren, Sacramento, CA Fu*k you PIG! I will talk about whatever I want to, and will be moderated only by the moderator. If you want to join the discussion on medical marijuana then I suggest you put away your badge and gun, yank that stick out of your ass, and say somethin intelligent. Tony Peardon. P.S. If you don't like that... come and get me!!! ___ X SLMR 2.1a X Nothing is so smiple that it can't get screwed up. --- Maximus 3.00 * Origin: Dragon's Lair BBS (1:3404/143) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EDM00000Date: 09/16/97 From: LAIRD KELLY Time: 11:30pm \/To: GEORGE LAGERGREN (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Closed minds GL> I thought Milk Thistle and St. John Wort were two good plants. GL> What is it about MT and SJW that might be considered bad? GL> Thanks. The legal definition of "noxious weed" (in Washington State) is "any plant which when established is highly destructive, competitive, or difficult to control by cultural or chemical practices" with three classes; Class A (such limited distribution that eradication is considered a reasonable goal), Class B (can be contained in the region(s) where they already occur), & Class C (controlled at the discretion of individual county noxious Weed Control Boards) Milk Thistle (Class A): best guess is it's invasive - competitive & hard to control (somebody was afraid it would be another "vine that ate the south" (kudzu)) St John's Wort (Class C in Washington - Class B in Oregon): phototoxic to livestock - if livestock eat SJW (either in contaminated hay or on over-grazed pastureland) it has a photosensitizing effect leading to sunburn on exposed body parts and milk cows with sunburned nose produce little milk... IMNSHO if the $#*&$%$ dairy farmers didn't try to raise 3-4 times as many cows as the pastureland could support there would be no problem >;-> BTW "control" is defined as 'prevention of seed production' - a loophole that was requested by bio-control researchers that were trying to establish the Cinnabar Moth to control Tansy-Ragwort (for those that never heard of the cinnabar moth, it's an attractive little red & black moth with a yellow & black prison-striped caterpillar that has a voracious appetite for tansy-ragwort) As a side note a nursery north of here has a specimen of Vietnamese Ivy imprisoned in their greenhouse - dinner-plate sized leaves, grows 2-3 FEET per day (think Kudzu on steroids *g*) - good thing it can't survive outside the greenhouse >;-> Laird * SLMR 2.1a * The pot at the end of the rainbow is not Acapulco Gold. --- Silver Xpress Mail System 5.3M1e * Origin: The Higher Ground, Gig Harbor, WA (1:138/211)