--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: ECL00002Date: 08/16/97 From: ALEX VASAUSKAS Time: 09:02am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Marijuana as medicine 1/ Jane Kelley wrote in a message to Gary Petz: JK> Bull. I have in hand a copy of "Pot Safari" by Peggy Mann, JK> daughter of Margaret Mann, first female member of Alocoholics JK> Anonymous. It documents with fact after fact, conversation after JK> conversation her trip of 4 months to the top marijuana researchers JK> in this nation and Canada. JK> It has Library of Congress no. 82-91050. Since that time, the JK> stuff has gotten stronger. Any book done today in the same fashion JK> would simply find more chemicals in marijuana than the 2,000 JK> referred to in this book. Toxic chemicals. Now as before, marijuana varies in potency depending on its variety and growing conditions. Its potency is irrelevant, except that this lets those who choose to smoke it rather than eat it or vaporize it be harmed less by the byproducts of burning the leaf -- due to chemicals that occur when any plant material is burned. Otherwise, the researchers have determined that marijuana is not toxic in any meaningful context. It is not surprising that you rely on an anecdotal source and not researchers' studies here (like the ones I have cited and provided to you) since nothing scientifically competent supports your representations regarding marijuana. JK> Another book on my shelves that I cannot see readily was published JK> by the union for the corrections officers in Seattle who worked in JK> the King County Jail. They saw first hand what happened to kids JK> who were under the influence of this weed and wrote a manual on it JK> for parents. JK> It didn't glorify the use of a drug that has killed many youngsters JK> in King County. Not one damn bit. No one is championing the use of marijuana by children without medical supervision. This should be the case with any drug. In any event, since marijuana is not meaningfully toxic, it cannot have killed anyone, and your corrections officers are not competent researchers if they arrived at a different conclusion based upon uncontrolled observations. If you want to place blame somewhere other than with the children, the next most responsible influence would be the parents who created the home and family atmosphere that resulted in their children's problem. But then, we can't have the schools and the police criticizing tax-paying parents, can we? So we conveniently blame a weed that can expose the result of bad parenting. JK> And I suggest that anyone who is ignorant of the truth about this JK> drug is either defending the right to use it or is under its JK> influence in one way or another. You're ignorant about the truth regarding this drug. What drug or psychological aberration are you under the influence of that causes you to ignore the truth and purvey your lies? JK> There is no right inherent in using a mind altering drug and JK> endangering one's own life Says who? It is only in an authoritarian society where adults are not permitted to exercise their prereogatives regarding how best to live their lives. Remember the Soviet Union Jane? They were the bad guys worthy of being nuked because they were authoritarian and we were supposedly free and had the right to do with our lives as we saw fit. JK> or the life of anyone else. None. This I agree with. --- * Origin: 61 deg. 25' N / 149 deg. 40' W (1:17/75) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: ECM00000Date: 08/16/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 06:42am \/To: BRIAN SHAW (Read 1 times) Subj: Japanese Health Tech BRIAN SHAW was thinking about Japanese Health Tech and keyed into cyberspace: BS>MARK PROBERT as usual had nothing better to do than to police the BS>internet: Cute. Stupid, but cute. BS>BS>Please take a minute to review the excellent company I am proud BS>BS>to present, it may change your life forever. BS>MP>Hi Brian, BS>MP>Did you know that selling on the internet and other electronic BS>MP>media is one of the rudest things you can do? BS>I think from now on I'll just forward all my correspondence to you BS>first for pre-approval before I mail it. If you had read the FIDO rules, you would know better. BS>Did you know that the ultimate in rude is to publicly point out how BS>rude someone has been? BS>MP>You see, people pay for your "free ad". Now, go to your room. BS>People pay all the time for your unsolicited commentaries that may BS>be factual but also tend to be redundant and cynical. That's where the cost is spread out over loads of people. In FIDO, it is not. BS>Some chronically ill people are not happy with main stream medicine BS>and are benefiting from this technology. BS>Very good Mark, you managed to write a whole message without one BS>little reference to Jane Kelly. Can you say obsession? You two BS>should get married! Chuckle. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: ECM00001Date: 08/16/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 06:33am \/To: GEORGE LAGERGREN (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Pharmacutical company GEORGE LAGERGREN was thinking about Re: Pharmacutical company and keyed into cyberspace: GL>-=> Quoting Mark Probert to George Lagergren <=- GL> GL> BW> This Friday, August 15th, while America is on summer GL> GL> BW> vacation the pharmacutical companys are out to regulate all GL> GL> BW> herbal products. This will mean that you will have to have a GL> GL> BW> doctors prescription to buy vitamins. This means the cost of GL> GL> BW> herbal alternative health care prices will skyrocket and the GL> GL> BW> freedom to GL> MP> Thanks for this entertaining story. It is mid summer and no new GL> MP> whacko conspiracies have pooped up. GL> GL> Mark --> The FDA and the international pharmacutical GL> companies want to regulate vitamins and herbs so a GL> doctor's okay would be necessary to obtain them. They are GL> also trying to use international treaties as a means to GL> accomplish this. I'll keep it "all natural": male bovine excreta. Find a few real facts, like names, dates, places, etc. and show it. I have heard this whine for decades. Just don't step on it when walking behind a bull. GL> This regulation effort will be in the news more as time GL> passes. Yep. You have no proof. That's what I thought. Why don't you start the herbal militia? ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: ECN00000Date: 08/17/97 From: DIA SPRIGGS Time: 08:06am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Paik > Anyone know about the burning pain? It seems to be "left > over" from the arthritis and isn't the same kind of pain. Sounds neurological....how's your E intake. Have you checked for clogged veins in the leg? B vitamins also help nerve problems..have any problem with cholesterol?..Have you tried anything like whirlpool or water exercises for the legs to keep the circulation flowing thru smoothly? I hear they even have those kind of things for bathtubs now. --- D'Bridge 1.30/002111 * Origin: THE SOURCE BBS Miami, Fla 305-624-2190 135/68 (1:135/68) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: ECN00001Date: 08/19/97 From: J. DOE Time: 12:28am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Open minds I came here to share some good news, but reading the messages here, I think I've brought it to deaf ears. Six years ago, my Intraocular Pressure (IOP) hit a dangerous high of 28 (at 30, most ophthalmologists feel they must intervene), and treatment was discussed. There was, however, no damage to the optic nerve, and no loss of vision as determined by a visual field scan. My glaucoma specialist agreed that I should try alternate methods of reducing pressure rather than begin a chemical regime that would be lifelong. Last month, my diagnosis was changed from "glaucoma suspect" to mere myopia.. Ocular pressure has dropped to normal levels, and there is still no damage to the optic nerve or vision loss. Alternate nonmedical methods, from consciously relaxing the eyes to daily marijuana use, are the only changes. I take no pharmaceuticals for any condition. Over the years, I have been promoted several times in my job, and my family life and overall health are excellent. As a bonus, the "altered state" brought about by the "noxious weed" is relaxing and enlightening -- after smoking I often see daily problems from a different perspective and creative solutions present themselves. If anything, I have become more patient and more easily able to let go of the "killer stress" I used to bring home from work. I can't see why this plant is illegal, and -- especially -- why it's treated so hysterically in this echo, which purports to be open to what orks. It's disappointing to discover strident voices seeking to squelch the spirit of exploration inherent in the title "altmed." Perhaps my speaking of real results on a real person will lead to a more levelheaded discussion of the plant that's saving my sight. NIH Report Supports Marijuana's Medical Potential, Recommends Future Trials August 14, 1997, Washington, DC: Marijuana has therapeutic potential in the treatment of many serious illnesses including AIDS wasting syndrome, spasticity disorders, and glaucoma, and future scientific trials should be funded by the federal government, said a report released by the National Institutes of Health (NIH) on August 8. NIH experts agreed that marijuana "looks promising enough to recommend that there be new controlled studies done." Panelists insisted that future trials should not hold marijuana to higher scientific standards than those applied to other medications or required by law. The report also noted that there are patients "for whom the inhalation route might offer advantages over the currently available capsule formulation." --- msgedsq 2.1 * Origin: - Art of the Possible - Providence (401) 421-2218 (1:323/109) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: ECP00000Date: 08/17/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 08:27am \/To: GEORGE LAGERGREN (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Japanese Health Tech GEORGE LAGERGREN was thinking about Re: Japanese Health Tech and keyed into cyberspace: GL>-=> Quoting Brian Shaw to Mark Probert <=- GL> BS> MARK PROBERT as usual had nothing better to do than to police GL> BS> the internet: GL> GL> MP>BRIAN SHAW was thinking about JAPANESE HEALTH TECH and keyed GL> MP>into cyberspace: GL> GL> Brian --> Some moderators of FIDO conferences desire GL> pre-approval of any ad material. I do not know how Dia, GL> the moderator of this ALTMED echo feels about ads posted GL> here. Thank you, George. The FIDO rules, pertinent to all conferences, ban sales ads, except those in conferences for sales. GL> I do notice that Internet USENET news groups conferences GL> such as alt.health have plenty of network marketing ads GL> posted there. I do not know how or whether I-net news GL> groups have moderators to police them. Some USENET groups look upon any ad with great disfavor. The COURTEOUS thing to do is to obtain the groups FAQ. (HINT: If the word "support" is in the groups name, like alt.support.attn-deficit, assume that ads are unwanted until *proven*. I have been on usenet before it became part of the internet, and I know how salescritters are treated. They get a "warm" reception. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) GARY PETZ was thinking about Re: Lazy & Stupid and keyed into cyberspace: GP>For once I agree with Jane that we lack rituals in our society. We GP>have throun them to the wind. TAke for example the transition from GP>adolescence to adulthood. Many societies have formal rituals. WE GP>laclk these. I like this idea. A B'nai Mitzvah for everyone! ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: ECP00001Date: 08/20/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 12:54am \/To: GARY PETZ (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Lazy & Stupid GARY PETZ was thinking about Re: Lazy & Stupid and keyed into cyberspace: GP>For once I agree with Jane that we lack rituals in our society. We GP>have throun them to the wind. TAke for example the transition from GP>adolescence to adulthood. Many societies have formal rituals. WE GP>laclk these. I like this idea. A B'nai Mitzvah for everyone! ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: ECP00002Date: 08/17/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 08:29am \/To: GEORGE LAGERGREN (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Marijuana as medicine GEORGE LAGERGREN was thinking about Re: Marijuana as medicine and keyed into cyberspace: GL>-=> Quoting Jane Kelley to Gary Petz <=- GL> JK> Bull. I have in hand a copy of "Pot Safari" by Peggy Mann, GL> JK> daughter It has Library of Congress no. 82-91050. Since that GL> JK> time, the stuff has gotten stronger. Any book done today in the GL> JK> same fashion would simply find more chemicals in marijuana than GL> JK> the 2,000 referred to in this book. Toxic chemicals. GL> Jane -- If the marijuana seed could be altered so the GL> seed would then contain little or no THC {which produces GL> the "high"}, I wonder if marijuana smokers would still GL> desire to smoke it? While I do not use marijuana, I could see no point to eating chocolateless chocolate. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: ECP00003Date: 08/17/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 08:30am \/To: GEORGE LAGERGREN (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Pain GEORGE LAGERGREN was thinking about Re: Pain and keyed into cyberspace: GL>-=> Quoting Jane Kelley to All <=- GL> JK> Should have been "Pain". I've been taking Glucosamine and GL> JK> Chondrotin for over 3 months and the pain from arthritis is a GL> JK> lot less. However, now I notice a burning pain in both legs, GL> JK> just below the knees. Latest M.D. says this may be GL> JK> neurological in nature, try a topical cream and call him in two GL> JK> weeks. The cream he recommends is made from peppers and I am GL> JK> highly allergic to all of the nightshade family of GL> Jane -- Along with your use of glucosamine and GL> chondrotin, are you taking aloe vera? Aloe vera is good GL> for removing toxins from the body. Also, taking grape seed GL> extract may loosen up the whole body. And of course GL> making sure one's vitamin/mineral supplement has the GL> mineral boron in it. Jane takes a lot of boreon. That's why her posts are so boring. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: ECQ00000Date: 08/20/97 From: DIA SPRIGGS Time: 07:52am \/To: J. DOE (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Open minds > I can't see why this plant is illegal, and -- especially > -- why it's treated so hysterically in this echo, which > purports to be open to what works. > > It's disappointing to discover strident voices seeking > to squelch the spirit of exploration inherent in the title > "altmed." Perhaps my speaking of real results on a real The fact is it IS illegal, abused and does a lot of damage to a lot of people. I am glad you find some use for it. It is not anyone's business what you chose to do with your own body or health. We can not suggest, recommend or I prefer not even discuss to any great length the joys of doing illegal acts. I wonder if relieving the stress as you say could also be attained by other methods such as biofeedback, stress management etc. You say your diagnosis is NOT glaucoma anymore? I have heard that the plant has been used successfully to relieve the pressure but myopia is something else again. THere are also drops that relieve glaucoma pressure and a couple of medications I think now. Alternative medicine is and probably always will be a controversial subject. While you are free to chose whatever you want to do with and to your own body, I really do not want this echo to become something that will get into a long heated discussion about something that is no matter who thinks it's right or wrong illegal. --- D'Bridge 1.30/002111 * Origin: THE SOURCE BBS Miami, Fla 305-624-2190 135/68 (1:135/68)