--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBY00003Date: 07/26/97 From: STEVE KEMP Time: 03:43pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Marijuana & children JK>Then the kids in the old King County Jail and the North JK>Rehabilitation Facility come to mind who we couldn't get out of bed JK>in the morning for breakfast. They were still in the acute stages of JK>withdrawal from pot when arrested. The "acute withdrawal symptom" of pot is THE MUNCHIES! So, they would have sprung to their feet and eaten your arm if it was too close. I'd dare say that these kids LIED to you...they probably did some crank or crack, you see THAT would be a common withdrawal symptom. You really should open your eyes....look...then THINK. It works. --- * CMPQwk #1.42* UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY --- HyperMail! v1.22 # Origin: CENTRAL PARK WEST - FOLSOM CA - 916.351.1476 PPI 33.6! (1:203/1476) * Origin: From the Skies Over Eagle's Domain (1:2210/40) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBY00004Date: 07/26/97 From: STEVE KEMP Time: 03:43pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Marijuana/men Breast Canc JK>SK>And YOU are? Got news for YOU...you are living in the dark ages. JK>SK>If you haven't heard the information stated....then......you are JK>SK>lacking in information. Noone has stated here that "Pot is good" JK>SK>or "everybody should smoke pot". The point and fact is it IS the JK>SK>safest of the illegal drugs..and even safer than aspirin, I'd dare JK>SK>say (actually, far safer). JK>Aspirin doesn't damage the lungs or the heart as marijuana does. Nope. It causes Reyes syndrome and it gives people ulcers....MANY people die from it. The amount of pot needed to give the results which you state would be beyond most peoples ability. Those results would have more to do with defoliants and other secondary additives which pots illegality promotes, also. JK>Pot is much more harmful than tobacco is and that has been known to JK>all but the most die hard addicts of the stuff for some time now. So, more people die from pot than from tobacco? With that single statement you have eliminated any slight bit of credibility that you might have had. JK>And, the stuff is much stronger than it used to be in the 1970's. Some varieties are, true. There is still "dirt weed" around, too. So, is it MORE "addictive"? Nope. Because pot IS NOT addictive. It is a habituant. Your posing as a nurse on here has certainly been shown to be a futile effort. Any medical professional knows the facts...you don't know the facts. Thus, you are not a medical professional...obviously. Is it fun to pretend you are one? --- * CMPQwk #1.42* UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY --- HyperMail! v1.22 # Origin: CENTRAL PARK WEST - FOLSOM CA - 916.351.1476 PPI 33.6! (1:203/1476) * Origin: From the Skies Over Eagle's Domain (1:2210/40) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBY00005Date: 07/28/97 From: ALEX VASAUSKAS Time: 08:17am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Ginkgo biloba From: http://www.kcweb.com/herb/herbmain.htm Herbal Information Center - Ginkgo Bilboba Ginkgo Biloba (Ginkgo Biloba Leaf) The ginkgo is the oldest living tree species, geological records indicate this plant has been growing on earth for 150 - 200 million years. Chinese monks are credited with keeping the tree in existence, as a sacred herb. It was first brought to Europe in the 1700's and it is now a commonly prescribed drug in France and Germany. It is one of the most well-researched herbs in the world. In the last 30 years, more that 300 studies have given clinical evidence that ginkgo prevents and benefits many problems throughout the entire body. Ginkgo is gaining recognition as a brain tonic that enhances memory because of its positive effects on the vascular system, especially in the cerebellum. It is also used as a treatment for vertigo, tinnitus (ringing in the ears) and a variety of neurological disorders and circulation problems. Ginkgo may help to counteract the effects of aging, including mental fatigue and lack of energy. Ginkgo works by increasing blood flow to the brain and throughout the body's network of blood vessels that supply blood and oxygen to the organ systems. It increases metabolism efficiency, regulates neurotransmitters, and boosts oxygen levels in the brain which uses 20% of the body's oxygen. Benefits of enhanced circulation in the brain include improved short and long term memory, increased reaction time and improved mental clarity. Ginkgo is often used to treat elderly persons with Alzheimer's and other symptoms of cerebral insufficiency. Cerebral insufficiency is a general term for a collection of symptoms that include difficulties of concentration and memory, absentmindedness, confusion, lack of energy, depressive mood, anxiety, dizziness, tinnitus, and headache. Ginkgo constituents are beneficial for a variety of imbalances and deterioration in the brain and body. Standardized ginkgo extract inhibits platelet activity factor (PAF), which is a common allergen in the body. Physical stress, and poor quality food can overstimulate PAF production; in other words, blood clotting. Excessive PAF can help cause cardiovascular disease, brain damage, hearing disorders and other immune and inflammatory diseases. Ginkgo has been used to relieve tension and anxiety and improve mental alertness, elevate mood and restore energy. Ginkgo has two groups of active substances, flavonoids and terpene lactones, including ginkgolides A, B, and C, bilobalide, quercetin, and kaempferol. The ginkgolides have been shown to control allergic inflammation, anaphylactic shock and asthma. Ginkgo also acts as a powerful antioxidant and contributes to the oxidation of free radicals which are believed to contribute to premature aging and dementia. Antioxidants also protect the eyes, cardiovascular system and central nervous system. Ginkgo may also help control the transformation of cholesterol to plaque associated with the hardening of arteries, and can relax constricted blood vessels. The herb has been used in treatment of other circulation- related disorders such as diabetic peripheral vascular disease, Raynaud's syndrome, hemorrhoids and varicose veins. It can also aid in the treatment of insufficient circulation and complications from stroke and skull injuries. Ginkgo's beneficial effects on the circulatory system also can be of benefit in the treatment of eye and ear disorders. Studies have confirmed that ginkgo increases blood flow to the retina, and can slow retinal deterioration resulting in an increase of visual acuity. In clinical tests ginkgo has improved hearing loss in the elderly. It also improves circulation in the extremities relieving cold hands and feet, swelling in the limbs and chronic arterial blockage. Among other things, ginkgo is being investigated as a potential treatment to prevent the rejection of transplanted organs, as a treatment for asthma and for toxic shock syndrome. Parts Used: Dried leaf. Common Use: Ginkgo has been shown to be nutritional support for mental alertness, enhanced vitality level, circulatory health and blood vessel health. Its high antioxidant activity is valuable for fighting age related conditions. All over the world, people have claimed Ginkgo to be beneficial in the fight against the gradual erosion of energy associated with aging. Care: The ginkgo tree thrives in full sun and average soil. It is very resistant to infection and pollution and can grow up to 120 feet. The small yellow fruit that falls from the female tree has a strong rancid odor. --- * Origin: 61 deg. 25' N / 149 deg. 40' W (1:17/75) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBY00006Date: 07/28/97 From: ALEX VASAUSKAS Time: 08:18am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Ginkgo biloba 2 From: spedge@csd4.csd.uwm.edu (Mary Ann Mertens) Newsgroups: alt.drugs Subject: Re: Gingko Biloba Date: 29 Oct 1993 01:54:58 GMT From article , by james@cadillac.Eng.Sun.COM Jack Mahanglin, Esq.: > I've been taking Gingko as a vitamin supplement and have noticed a marked > increase in the level of intensity I am able to think. It's supposed to > be a "smart" drug, but I didn't realize the effects were so apparent. From Smart Drugs and Nutrients: GINKGO BILOBA: A Nootropic Herb? Ginkgo biloba is the oldest species of tree known, dating back 300 years. Extracts from the leaves of the ginkgo biloba tree have been used by Chin- ese medicine for thousands of years. European physicians write over 1.2 million prescriptions per month for it. Ginkgo biloba is used to improve cerebral circulation, mental alertness, and overall brain functioning. More than 34 human studies on ginkgo have been published since 1975, show- ing that ginkgo works by increasing blood flow throughout the body and brain. Ginkgo increases the productions of adenosine triphosphate (ATP, the universal energy molecule). It also improves the brain's ability to metabolize glucose, prevents platelet aggregation inside arterial walls by keeping them flexible, improves the transmission of nerve signals, and acts as a powerful antioxidant. Ginkgo biloba leaf is effective for people with symptoms of reduced blood flow to the brain and extremities. It has been shown to be helpful with many of the complaints of the elderly such as: memory loss, slow thinking and reasoning, depression, dizziness, ringing in the ears, headaches, and senile macular degeneration (a major cause of blindness). One study even shows significant improvement in people who have both Park- ingson's and Alzheimer's disease. In this study 25 people w/ Parkingson's disease and signs of Alzheimer's disease were given ginkgo extract daily for one year. They were tested with standard tests, clinical evaluations, and a new computerized EEG. The scores improved significantly. CITE: Funfgeld, E.W. "A natural and broad spectrum nootropic substance treatment of SDAT - the gingko biloba extract". from Progress in Clinical and Biological Research, 1989, 317 (pp 1247-1260) One study does not prove that Gingko biloba is efficacious in the treatment of these diseases. However, ginkgo is safe, inexpensive and easily obtain- ed, and people with Parkinsons and/or Alzheimer's might consider experi- menting with it. PRECAUTIONS: No negative effects have been reported in the literature even in very large quantities. DOSAGE: Most research has been done with a gingko biloba extract which contained a 24% concentration of flavinoid extract. At this strength, the usual dosage is 120-160mg per day taken in three divided doses. However, many gingko products are lower in potency, and may require dosages as high as 1000mg per day. Three to six months is probably needed to evaluate the results. Your welcome. Buy the book, (and their sequal, smart drugs II): "Smart Drugs and Nutrients" by Ward Dean & John Morgenthaler (1990) ISBN# 0-9627418-9-2 ($12.95) "Smart Drugs II" by Ward Dean / John Morgenthaler / Steven Wm. Fowkes (1993) ISBN# 0-9627418-7-6 ($14.95) SD2 covers totally different material than the first book: Deprenyl, Melatonin, Milacemide, Nimodipine, Phosphatidylserine, Pregnenolone, Ondansetron and Zatosetron. The first book has almost everything else you've ever heard of: Pyrrolidone types (Piracetam, Oxiracetam), Hydergine, Vasopressin, Fipexide, Vinopocetine, Acetyl-L-Carnitine, Centrophenoxine, Choline, AL721, DHEA, DMAE, Gerovital GH-3, Ginkgo, Ginseng, Idebenone (CoQ10), Phenytoin (dilantin), Inderal, Vincamine, etc. (and yes, I know Ginkgo is spelled "gingko" a dozen times in the above transcript - sue me, I was baked) --- * Origin: 61 deg. 25' N / 149 deg. 40' W (1:17/75) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBY00007Date: 07/27/97 From: STEVE KEMP Time: 08:54pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Lazy & Stupid JK>My family dates back to the 800's in England Funny thing is, EVERYONE elses family dates back to prehistory. I guess YOUR family got dropped off by aliens. Since we've all been here longer...I think we have more cred. --- * CMPQwk #1.42* UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY --- HyperMail! v1.22 * Origin: CENTRAL PARK WEST - FOLSOM CA - 916.351.1476 PPI 33.6! (1:203/1476) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBY00008Date: 07/27/97 From: STEVE KEMP Time: 03:52pm \/To: TED BARNES (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Marijuana TB> SK> Why would I go to an A.A. meeting? I'm not a Christian. I have TB> SK> been to R.R. meetings, though. And I am a recovering drug user. TB>Huh?????? TB>Why wouldn't you attend A.A. meetings? I already stated why. TB> You have stated you are a recovering drug user, alcohol is TB>a drug. You belong in A.A. if you choose. No I don't. I disagree with its principles. The 12 steps, that is. TB> No you don't have to go. My, how generous of you. TB>What does being a Christian have to do with A.A. ? TB>Are you concerned about the Lord's Prayer at closing? Seems you just answered the question. Isn't the Lords Prayer a Christian thing? Isn't a belief in a "Higher Power" religion? The thing is, I'd rather not sell out my principles to attain recovery. Where I go I need not do so. TB>You know you don't have to say it. No where in the literature of A.A. TB>does it associate with any religion, infact it states the opposite. Most of the 12 steps refer to a "Higher Power"...I believe in none. It also stated that one is powerless to change, I disagree. TB>The only requirement is a desire to be sober. That's fine. It's the message and methods that I disagree with. TB>I belieev you need to do a little ground work with your recovery I know what I believe. If YOU had done any groundwork you might have heard of R.R. (Rational Recovery). THAT is where I go. If fits my personal belief system. A.A. does not. TB>or you might find your self somewhere where you don't want to be. If I were to go to A.A. I would be somewhere I don't want to go. TB>Btw, Yes I go to A.A. have been sober for over 6 years, short time TB>I have to say, but it is sober never the less. I used all drugs TB>available from a very young age up to my 30's so I do have extensive TB>experience with drugs. As do I. Alcohol, also. Oh, and congratulations (I mean this). I've been clean and sober for 1 1/2 years. TB> A.A. works for all. Not for me, so you are incorrect. A little less judgmental attitude might help you on your way. A.A. ISN'T for everyone. Many people find it victimizing in it's outlook (the powerless part, and thus the having to be a victim for life). The "Higher Power" part in it's 12 steps is a slap in the face of atheists and freethinkers. R.R. is much more self-empowering and far less judgmental. It works, also. If you wish to attend A.A. go right ahead. Please extend me the courtesy of my selecting my own equally effective program, one that I can ethically and intellectually agree with. --- * CMPQwk #1.42* UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY --- HyperMail! v1.22 * Origin: CENTRAL PARK WEST - FOLSOM CA - 916.351.1476 PPI 33.6! (1:203/1476) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBY00009Date: 07/27/97 From: STEVE KEMP Time: 08:50pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: our toxic environment JK>TM> JK> First of all, we the people have to take our country back. A JK>TM> JK> bit hard when the nation is flooded with one mind altering JK>TM> JK> drug or another. First it was Heroin, then cocaine, and now JK>TM> JK> we are seeing more and more marijuna used by kids. JK>TM> Come on Jane, can you REALLY blame our troubles on the 5 JK>TM> million illegal drug users ? Or the 70 million adults who JK>TM> according to Gen McCaffrey smoke marijuana ? JK>That is a symbol of just how far down we have slipped since the days JK>when structure, discipline, and critical thinking were taught to our JK>children along with reading, writing, and arthithmatic. And you learnt spelling? JK> Even the arithmatic is in question these days. The word is Arithmetic. JK> My youngest's sixth grade JK>class had no sixth grade math taught to it at all, this had to be JK>learned in the junior high they went to. And that would not have JK>been possible had my husband and I not spotted this and gone to the JK>folks in the junior high. JK>The use of marijuana among teens is esculating at a rapid rate. Escalating is the word, Jane. BUT, you are half correct. Usage is going up recently, after an actual dip a couple of years ago. It's called cyclic change. JK> It doubled, and then doubled again. Nope, that is a lie. JK> The number of high school seniors JK>who have had sex, used alcohol and other drugs is much higher today JK>than it ever was. It's called population increase. More people, more use....but not per capita. You are a liar, or stupid...or both. JK>And those are the kids who have stuck in school! There are no JK>statistics, other than arrest records, for those kids who haven't. Haven't what? JK>Kids who use marijuna don't tend to do well in subjects like math. And you are straight .....and can't spell. JK>If they take them in the first place. Take what? JK>This county has a wonderful track record for its kids.......half of JK>them do not graduate from high school. That is a lie. JK>I'd say we have a long way to go to clean up the messes we've made in JK>the past few years. I think you just messed your pants, clean it up. You have NO idea what you are talking about. You are completely out of touch with reality. If this is the effect of "straight living" I want nothing to do with it. This is the kind of bilge that makes kids disbelieve any admonishments against pot use. Total fools speaking of "facts" like Jane does. --- * CMPQwk #1.42* UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY --- HyperMail! v1.22 * Origin: CENTRAL PARK WEST - FOLSOM CA - 916.351.1476 PPI 33.6! (1:203/1476) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBY00010Date: 07/28/97 From: TY MEISSNER Time: 07:45am \/To: LAURENT DE FONTENAY (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: ?Zen On 07-22-97 22:50, Laurent De Fontenay typed to Jane Kelley regarding: => ?Zen <= Hello Laurent, LDF> Hi Jane! LDF> On Sunday, 20 July 1997, 08:36:00, Jane Kelley wrote to Laurent De LDF> Fontenay: JK> The following is exactly the kind of rambling that is outdated JK> by what we know of today as the brain as a very in tricate machine, JK> geared to handle a wide variety of tasks, IF allowed to do so as it JK> was designed to do. LDF> Are you a shrink? LDF>> DL> the position expresses the oneness of duality: not LDF>> DL> two, and not one. This is the most important teaching:not two LDF>> DL> ,and not one. Our body and mind are not two , and not one. If JK> I also think that the whoever wrote it hasn't the first clue JK> as to what electromagnetic energy is or how our brains work and JK> interact with it. LDF> Neither do I! :-) Mind telling me more? What, e.g., affects the LDF> brain electrromagnetically? LDF> Stay well! LDF> Laurent Electro-convulsive "therapy" springs to mind. Effect: temporary (hopefully) amnesia. Then there's the inmate in the electric chair, in Florida a month ago, whose head burst into flames when they poured the juice to him. There are low level galvanic potentials between various locations in the brain, characterized as alpha, beta, and theta waves in electroencephalography. These impulses are used in biofeedback. Certain disturbances in the characteristic patterns of these potentials are associated with convulsive activity as in epilepsy. But I don't think the precise significance of each of these impulses is understood, yet. I don't know if that's what Jane had in mind. Ty Ty Meissner E-MAIL: Ty.meissner@grape.net I will sleep and dream like the air, and move like the wind, with assion when it pleases me. The Universe is not up there... Its here, and we're in it, third rock out from the sun. -- Peter Spiro ... Weather forecast for tonight: dark. ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0507 * Origin: The Electronic Grapevine [707] 257-2338 (1:161/910) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBZ00000Date: 07/25/97 From: ALAN FLETCHER Time: 10:21pm \/To: MARILYN BERRY (Read 1 times) Subj: Osteoarthritis Hi Marilyn, >> I can feel for you but there is no cure for osteo >> (what is gone is >> gone) only relief or an artificial joint. If you can > Alan, I've come back out of "lurk" mode very temporaraily, to respond to > this.... > It IS possible to get full relief from osteoarthritis, without > painkillers, without medication of any kind. And, no, I can't quote any > studies. But I have the very thing this echo was set up to exchange-- > personal experience: I'm not quite sure what you are getting at here Marilyn. I also confirmed that it was possible to get relief. I just added that there was no known cure as yet for it. > In 1984, I was diagnosed with osteoarthritis of the upper spine, which > was affecting the nerves running out of the spine and down the arms. By > 1990, despite being on medications, I was unable to drive because I > couldn't reliably steer the car, and I was sometimes unable to do fine- > motor control work with my arms. I had pain and tingling in the arms > all the time, and occasional numbness. > In 1993, I started using an energy modality called Therapeutic Touch and > later also learned Reiki, and I do sessions for myself regularly. This > took care of the problem. ALL the osteoarthritis symptoms went away and > have not come back. I took myself off the medications, and now take NO > medication of any kind, no hormones, no painkillers, no vitamins, > nothing. (And I haven't been back to a doctor since 1993.) I resumed > driving and all my fine-motor control was restored. I can lift heavy > loads, dig ditches, clog-dance (5 hours a week), climb onto my roof and > nail shingles, carry my new grandbaby without fear of dropping him. I > now have NO symptoms of osteoarthritis. Am I "cured"? Who cares? It is > AS IF I am cured, and that's good enough.... I am pleased to hear that you have found an effective and relatively safe method of gaining relief. But for future possible sufferers we should be thinking more along the lines of prevention rather than workarounds after the horse has bolted and the damage is done. Bone grinding against bone (whether the pain is somehow subdued or not) will still lead to further damage. As to your statement about not caring if you are cured as long as you feel as if you are cured... this is not and can not be the answer. You may remember me telling someone that one can walk around on bone stubs after a shot of morphium. >> I for one would be the first to listen if it works. > Even if the thing that works is an energy modality, like Reiki? > Actually, you don't have to answer that-- I'm going back to "lurk" mode. > I just wanted you to know that it is not true that the only thing you > can do about osteoarthritis is prevent it, use painkillers, or get an > artificial joint. There are OTHER ANSWERS.... You have not offered another answer Marilyn as you are using Reiki or something similar as a pain-killer. It is nothing new that the mind can be conditioned to ignore (and hence not feel) pain. The people in India demonstrate this time and again when they suspend themselves on hooks etc. during religious ceremonies. So do the fakirs (although anyone can lay on a bed of nails and walk over hot coals). Best regards, Alan --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: The Bear's Cave (2:2461/161.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBZ00001Date: 07/29/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 03:09pm \/To: TY MEISSNER (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: ?Zen TY MEISSNER was thinking about Re: ?Zen and keyed into cyberspace: TM> On 07-22-97 22:50, Laurent De Fontenay typed to Jane Kelley TM> regarding: => ?Zen <= TM> Hello Laurent, TM> LDF> Hi Jane! TM> LDF> On Sunday, 20 July 1997, 08:36:00, Jane Kelley wrote to Laurent TM> LDF> De Fontenay: TM> JK> The following is exactly the kind of rambling that is outdated TM> JK> by what we know of today as the brain as a very in tricate TM> JK> machine, geared to handle a wide variety of tasks, IF allowed to TM> JK> do so as it was designed to do. TM> LDF> Are you a shrink? TM> LDF>> DL> the position expresses the oneness of duality: not TM> LDF>> DL> two, and not one. This is the most important teaching:not TM> LDF>> DL> two ,and not one. Our body and mind are not two , and not TM> LDF>> DL> one. If TM> JK> I also think that the whoever wrote it hasn't the first clue TM> JK> as to what electromagnetic energy is or how our brains work and TM> JK> interact with it. TM> LDF> Neither do I! :-) Mind telling me more? What, e.g., affects TM> LDF> the brain electrromagnetically? TM> LDF> Stay well! TM> LDF> Laurent TM> Electro-convulsive "therapy" springs to mind. Effect: TM> temporary (hopefully) amnesia. That lacks the magnetic part of the electromagnetic energy Jane was referring to. TM> Then there's the inmate in the electric chair, in Florida a TM> month ago, whose head burst into flames when they poured the TM> juice to him. It was worse than that. TM> There are low level galvanic potentials between various TM> locations in the brain, characterized as alpha, beta, and theta TM> waves in electroencephalography. These impulses are used in TM> biofeedback. Certain disturbances in the characteristic TM> patterns of these potentials are associated with convulsive TM> activity as in epilepsy. But I don't think the precise TM> significance of each of these impulses is understood, yet. TM> I don't know if that's what Jane had in mind. I hope she clears that up. I am interested in what she has to say. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110)