--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBT00000Date: 07/22/97 From: SUE SMITH Time: 06:27am \/To: MARK PROBERT (Read 1 times) Subj: A.D.D MP> Most ADHDers do NOT outgrow it. If you read Hallowell's books, and t MP> writings of Barkley, you'll see that it does extend to adulthood. MP> MP> The increase in the use of prescription meds for ADHD is traceable, MP> part, to the acknowledgement of this fact. MP> MP> What does help is that the child matures, learns coping skills, and MP> to handle themselves better. Counselling for child and family is ver MP> helpful. Behavior modification programs are useful. MP> MP> All work best with medication added in. Thanks for the info. I have often wondered even about myself as I do have to cope with a chemical inbalance in the brain and take meds for it. Possibly and probably some of the same stuff? I took my son to see a new pediatrician in Ocala since we recently moved and I needed to transfer his scripts up here. The doctor refused to write a script for him saying that he didn't believe in it and that in time the child would learn self control and basically grow out of the need for medication. He also told me that it was only his opinion but that I would find a number of pediatricians that felt the same way and I would also find those that felt medication was the answer. I guess I was just "clinging" to the hope that perhaps he would outgrow it but I guess something like this doesn't just go away, it only becomes controled as they mature. --- TriToss (tm) 10.0 - #0 * Origin: The Swamp BBS *352-546-4739* 24 hour free Access (1:365/44) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBT00001Date: 07/22/97 From: SUE SMITH Time: 12:10pm \/To: BOB MOYLAN (Read 1 times) Subj: A.D.D Bob, thanks for the enlightment of information. I have received many letters that state the same. Just this last year I also enrolled him in cub scouts and in baseball (is 8 years old now). Although I was a little reluctant to do so, not knowing if he could handle it, I was amazed. At first there was some problems but with a lot of one on one talking and patience he came thru and even got the team ball for the most improved player! He loved it as he also loves Scouts. My only problem now is the emotional end of it. He seems to interpret things people say sometimes wrongly and he is so sensitive that it really crushes him. Of course, this has always been one of the problems. Even just light teasing can set him off as he was taking it personally. He has gotten a little better at it but a lot of times at school when _mom_ can't be right there it really makes for a long day as he will dwell on it all day long. I know kids as a rule can and will be cruel. My son is a little on the chunky side and not as quick or good as some of the other kids in sports related activities. So needless to say they poke fun at him and that ruins the whole day. Even with medication it doeesn't seem to alleviate the pain he feels emotionally.. I am certainly open to suggestions on this one also. Academically, he is brilliant. And as long as I can give him the meds then he doesn't have too much of a problem concentrating. Also thanks for the tip on the term _drugs_. Never thought of it that way but it certainly makes sense. TTYL Sue --- TriToss (tm) 10.0 - #0 * Origin: The Swamp BBS *352-546-4739* 24 hour free Access (1:365/44) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBT00002Date: 07/22/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 06:22am \/To: JASON HUFF (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: A Drink Or 2 A Day JASON HUFF was thinking about Re: A Drink Or 2 A Day and keyed into cyberspace: JH>MP> JH>I'd like to see her list these sources so that we could read JH>MP> JH>them and see what they say. JH>MP> She has done that in ADHD on a few occasions. Then, when shown JH>MP> where she mis-interpreted what was written, she does her usual JH>MP> bit. JH>well, i haven't seen it (not saying that it means she hasn't) and i'd JH>like for her to post some of the sources she's been using so that i JH>could check them out and see what they say. i haven't been here JH>long enough to form an opinion about anyone, but it seems everyone is JH>against her, and i would like to see for myself if her opinions and JH>statements have any basis in fact. Great idea. Have fun. Take motrin. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBT00003Date: 07/22/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 06:43pm \/To: DIA SPRIGGS (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: What's The Subject? DIA SPRIGGS was thinking about Re: What's The Subject? and keyed into cyberspace: Dia: I recently received email that purports to be an objective scientific study showing that a nutritional supplement is effective for ADHD. I would like to u/l here, as a point of discussion, along with my take on it. Do you have any problem with this? If so, just let me know. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBU00000Date: 07/22/97 From: TY MEISSNER Time: 09:03pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Marijuana & children On 07-17-97 07:08, Jane Kelley typed to Ty Meissner regarding: => Marijuana & children <= Hello Jane, ------------------- >8 snip ! --------------------- TM> You'd probabaly be surprised by the number of successful law TM> enforcement officers, lawyers, judges, doctors, dentists, bankers, TM> computer scientists, commodity traders, and NURSES who smoke pot ow TM> and then, for recreational purposes. TM> Would you characterize them as irrsponsible ? I don't think so. JK> I would. You can excuse their behavior away if you chose to, I've JK> seen too much misery from this noxious weed over the past 30 years to JK> believe otherwise. There are, for example, several members of one What behavior are you talking about ? Wer're talking about the doctors, lawyers, dentists, bankers, etc. NOT drug use by children. Lets stay on topic, please. JK> daughter's high school class who died before graduation in auto JK> accidents......the result of the difference in the immediate withdrawal JK> of pot and alcohol in a speeding car around 2-3 am. Auto accident as "result withdrawal symptoms ?" Not a very credible assertion. More likely, if intoxicants played any part in addition to the inherent inexperience and impulsivity of young drivers, they were probabaly still under the influence. JK> Then the kids in the old King County Jail and the North Rehabilitation JK> Facility come to mind who we couldn't get out of bed in the morning JK> for breakfast. They were still in the acute stages of withdrawal from JK> pot when arrested. Why do act as if I advocated that children abuse drugs ? Please lets not throw in these red herrings. We were talking, STRICTLY about adult use. I remind you that I think that in general, the use of ALL drugs by children is inadvisable. But there are many exceptions. I don't think that fictitiously demonizing recreational drugs beyond all reason when most prescription drugs are inherently more dangerous than recreational drugs is helpful. JK> Anyone who knows that these things are possible from the use of the JK> stuff and who goes on and ingests it has no respect from me at all. JK> I've listened to too many addicts over the years who have made it to JK> recovery from the damn stuff to believe anyone else on this subject. I think the best approach is total honesty about important issues like drugs and sex. The kind of Reefer Madness hysteria which you seem to advocate damages our credibility with the younger generations - who have AWLWAYS seen through their elders' pathetic lies. Kids are bright enough to know that not every, not even every other individual who experiments with drugs becomes addicted. They know that 1 out of 10 who experiments WILL become addicted but that those individuals have other negative experiences in life directing them to self destructive behaviors. If there are individuals whose lives are so devoid of pleasure or happiness that they need to turn to addiction, would you prefer to delve into the cause of their misery or would you prefer to punish them for their immorality ? I myself prefer to eliminate the underlying causes of misery. Other people get more enjoyment out of punishment. But since punishment, in spite of its tremendous satisfaction, never solves anything, I think if society wants to save itself (and part of it - behind the walled, guarded villas - doesn't want to) it better switch over to the harm reduction model immediately. Regards, Ty Ty Meissner E-MAIL: Ty.meissner@grape.net I will sleep and dream like the air, and move like the wind, with assion when it pleases me. The Universe is not up there... Its here, and we're in it, third rock out from the sun. -- Peter Spiro ... Its easier to ask for forgiveness than for permission. ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0507 * Origin: The Electronic Grapevine [707] 257-2338 (1:161/910) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBU00001Date: 07/22/97 From: TY MEISSNER Time: 09:26pm \/To: DAVID WILSON (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: What's The Subject? On 07-20-97 16:59, David Wilson typed to All regarding: => What's The Subject? <= Hello David, ------------------- >8 snip ! --------------------- DW> There are many erudite viewpoints expressed here and I admit that they DW> are all interesting to me except for the political debates and the DW> backbiting which seem out of place. DW> Will continue to watch, however. DW> We have a most excellent moderator who does a good job keeping people in line without the kind of tyrannical presence which you seem to seek. I can appreciate your impatience with off-topic messages, but that's what my [Enter] key is for. I have found all kinds of interesting alternative health info here. Why just recently I got an e-mail from someone who got my address from this echo, about the wonders of Morinda citrifola or Noni plant, also known as Indian mulberry. The fruit is high in vitamin C and contains caproic and caprylic acids, essetial oil, B-D-glucopyranose pentaacetate 2, and apseruloside tetra acetate among other constituents. According to Dr. Ralph Heinicke, a biochemist, Noni fruit contains a proxeronine which causes the body to generate xeronine, a chemical constituent essential to intracellular protein metabolism. Noni fruit. leaves, and roots have long been used in traditinal Hawaiian and South Pacific islands medicine, where the plant has been cultivated for many generations. I have not personally used this product but would like to know if anyone has ? Regards, Ty Ty Meissner E-MAIL: Ty.meissner@grape.net I will sleep and dream like the air, and move like the wind, with assion when it pleases me. The Universe is not up there... Its here, and we're in it, third rock out from the sun. -- Peter Spiro ... Other than that, Mrs. Lincoln, how did you like the play? ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0507 * Origin: The Electronic Grapevine [707] 257-2338 (1:161/910) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBU00002Date: 07/23/97 From: BOB MOYLAN Time: 07:55pm \/To: SUE SMITH (Read 1 times) Subj: A.D.D Sue Smith (On 22 Jul 97) was saying to Bob Moylan Hi again Sue... This thread may be straying a bit from the conference focus but some of what we are talking about is an ALTernative to MEDications... (If that's too much of a stretch Dia just say so.. (-; and we can try to take it to the ADHD conference if Sue has access) Now then.... SS> problem now is the emotional end of it. He seems to interpret things SS> people say sometimes wrongly and he is so sensitive that it really SS> crushes him. Sounds like he hasn't yet learned how to interpret tone of voice, body language and everything else that makes up face to face interactions. He may not be completely processing what he hears - imagine a cordless telephone that cuts in and out so you are only hearing part of what is being said - leaves tons of room for misinterpretation. Or he could be right and others, especially other kids, are just being cruel because he's an easy target and they know pretty much how he's going to react....not uncommon and the "butt" of these taunts or whatever don't have to have ADD/ADHD to be a target. SS> Of course, this has always been one of the problems. Hard work on social skills can go a long way toward helping... SS> Even just light teasing can set him off as he was taking it SS> personally. He has gotten a little better at it but a lot of times at SS> school when _mom_ can't be right there it really makes for a long day SS> as he will dwell on it all day long. Learning the difference between simple teasing and deliberate taunting is another difficult thing for these kids (like there isn't enough already )-; Some things you can do to help him learn the difference include finding out if there is one other kid that he really likes, one that doesn't get on his case too much. Plan some simple activity that you know your son enjoys ... ask him if he'd like to do whatever it is with ____. If he says yes invite the other child to come over and do whatever ... with your direct supervision and/or participation, it doesn't have to be anything elaborate or cost a lot and shouldn't last for more than say 2 hours. What you would be doing is giving your son an opportunity to learn how to interact with another child one-to-one and more importantly giving the other child an opportunity to see that your son maybe, just maybe, (from a child's perspective) could be someone that he could be friends with. If successful repeat, with different activities and talk about bringing another 2 kids into the picture (threesomes are asking for trouble - two will often "gang up" on the third and the "two" are not always the same. If the first effort is not successful don't give up ... SS> I know kids as a rule can and will be cruel. My son is a little SS> on the chunky side Been there ... done that ... I was a fat kid, not chunky but FAT; didn't get rid of it until high school .. blah... not fun SS> and not as quick or good as some SS> of the other kids in sports related activities. I don't think anyone expects any 8 year old to be a super star, that some are better than others is just a fact of life. You should consider exposing your son to all manner of athletic activities until he either finds one or two that he really likes and stick to those or it becomes apparent to him (and you) that team sports are just not his forte. Then I'd start looking at those where the only competition is with himself...karate or one of the other martial arts is highly recommended by many. SS> So needless to say they poke fun at him and that ruins the whole day. That's a coaching problem ... I don't tolerate any of my players poking "fun" at or badmouthing anyone else's mistakes. I haven't yet met the boy (or girl) who doesn't make a mistake when they're learning something new or practicing a skill. SS> Even with medication it doesn't seem to alleviate the pain he feels SS> emotionally.. No that's not the purpose of the meds... and I'd think long and hard before putting an 8 year old on _any_ psychotropic for an emotional problem without searching out an Alternative answer [see Dia! (-8 ] SS> Academically, he is brilliant. Many ADD/ADHD children are gifted .. not all .. but many. SS> And as long as I can give him the meds SS> then he doesn't have too much of a problem concentrating. The meds are helping him to focus and ignore all the visual and auditory "trivia" that otherwise are much more interesting than a boring old teacher .. <-; I'm sending you direct netmail on something too long to put in here, let me know if you receive it .. you may have to ask your SysOp to keep an eye out and forward it to you if you don't have netmail access. Best... Bob ... He who is not prepared today will be less so tomorrow --- PPoint 2.03 * Origin: What's The Point? Virginia Beach, VA USA (1:275/429.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBU00003Date: 07/23/97 From: STEVE KEMP Time: 12:02pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Marijuana JK>SK>JK>Sonny, I don't know what mountain top you live on behind high JK>SK>JK>walls with barbed wire enclosures that isolates you from JK>SK>JK>reality. The blunt truth is that a "pure" alcoholic is almost JK>SK>JK>unknown today. Most addicts are using at least two drugs JK>SK>JK>besides alcohol and I am not limiting this to caffeine and JK>SK>JK>nictotine. JK>SK>Sorry, Mommy, but you are turning the point around again. YES, JK>SK>people that use drugs do tend to use other drugs and alcohol. The JK>SK>that point was MOST PEOPLE THAT DRINK ALCOHOL DO NOT USE OTHER JK>SK>that DRUGS. JK>That is a lie. A very poor one, but nevertheless, a lie. And if you JK>had one whit of the knowledge that you think you do, you would JK>understand why it is a lie. To be a lie I would have had to have known some other truth and purposely substituted a falsehood for same. Since I didn't do this...it is not a lie. I understand the issue far better than you, also. JK>There are very, very few folks today who don't use other drugs along JK>with alcohol. They smoke, getting nicotene all over the place. They JK>also drink coffee which has caffeine in it. Those are two of the JK>legal mind altering drugs available besides the alcohol. JK>And they tend to use sugar which is a problem in itself for some. I had inserted tobacco and caffeine into an earlier post...YOU disallowed them. So, I went with the tack of true intoxicates. Give me a break. O.K. people that drink alcohol use drugs...cigarettes, coffee, and aspirin...JESUS! Now would you like to speak to my point? That the majority of people that drink alcohol DO NOT use marijuana, cocaine, meth, heroin, etc. JK>Then those who become addicted to alcohol learn at an early age to JK>hold off the symptoms of early addiction and even middle stage JK>addiction by the use of other substances and think they have gotten JK>away with something. You are rambling again. JK>Until the damage to their brains and body becomes overwhelming and JK>they start to present late stage chronic symptoms of addiction JK>without having presented most of the symptoms of early and middle JK>stage addiction. I don't buy it. I'd dare say most alcoholics and drug addicts KNOW that they are addicted. JK>Then they also become very sick. From drinking alcohol? Why yes they do. It's very bad for people. --- * CMPQwk #1.42* UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY --- HyperMail! v1.22 * Origin: CENTRAL PARK WEST - FOLSOM CA - 916.351.1476 PPI 33.6! (1:203/1476)