--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBK00012Date: 07/13/97 From: TY MEISSNER Time: 04:19am \/To: PAT BRADLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: MARIJUANA/MEN BREAST On 07-09-97 10:55, Pat Bradley typed to Ty Meissner regarding: => MARIJUANA/MEN BREAST <= Hello Pat, ------------------- >8 snip ! --------------------- I don't know what our discussion of avoiding toxic foods relates to marijuana and mens breasts. I think marihuana does enlarge mens breasts and lower their sperm count. Some of my Hawaiian friends who indulge in only in the highest grade Pacalolo, seem to be quite chesty, like a lot of old men. If that's the worst effect it has on health I can't see why its illegal. It ought to be controlled like beer. Stop throwing millions of youngsters into prisons where they learn real hard core crime. According to ourdrug Czar, Gen Barry Mc Caffrey, over 70 million Americans are pot smokers. Only about 5 million users of all other illicit drugs combined. Seems to me if we stopped the war on marijuana we could cut the size of the drug war by 86% - that's 86% of 750 $ Billion (what we've spent on it the last 10 years). That's 645 BILLION dollars saved just by decriminalizing a drug less harmful than beer. As a former member of an outlaw biker gang, as well as a former drug counselor I can tell you that I have observed this "problem" from a clinical as well as an academic point of view. I know most drugs and how they affect people. Before marijuana was oulawed it was a popular ingredient in over the counter tonics, as was cocaine, as was opium. These were as common (and as effective) as aspirin, the last century's greatest miracle drug (sysnthesized from Willow bark). There is a growing distrust of science in our 90s culture and a greater drive to seek confort in the irrational, the occult, in UFOs as an example. Alternative medicine through the ages has been based on rigorous empiricism, an integral element of the scientific method. Those seeking greater knowledge of alternative medicine should do so without abandoning rigorous scientific dicipline. That way we'll come up with solutions that work and are real, not placebo effects. Best regards, Ty Ty Meissner E-MAIL: Ty.meissner@grape.net I will sleep and dream like the air, and move like the wind, with assion when it pleases me. The Universe is not up there... Its here, and we're in it, third rock out from the sun. -- Peter Spiro ... ==>> Team Forward(c) ==>> leading the paradigm shift to sustainability ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0507 * Origin: The Electronic Grapevine [707] 257-2338 (1:161/910) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBK00013Date: 07/13/97 From: TY MEISSNER Time: 04:44am \/To: PAT BRADLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: MARIJUANA/MEN BREAST On 07-09-97 10:55, Pat Bradley typed to Ty Meissner regarding: => MARIJUANA/MEN BREAST <= Hello Pat, ------------------- >8 snip ! --------------------- PB> (PS - liked your point about lead, in a previous post) The lead problem is far more prevalent than we suppose. Not only is it in *most* pre 1960s paints. A greater source is the particulate lead that contaminates the soils alongside EVERY motorway. These soils are blown around by winds and spread everywhere. We are not testing for this widely enough. We do know that lead exposure can cause organic brain damage inluding that kind which contributes to anti-social behaviors. Longitudinal studies, I've read, indicate the correlation that more individuals with elevated lead levels as children wind up involved with the criminal justice system as adults. I heard an interview with a 30 year cancer researcher from NIH about the progress in understanding the nature of cancer. A very great deal of progress has indeed been made in this area, especially recently as result of DNA studies. Its far too lenghty and complex a process to describe in detail but its very specifically dependent on the presence of certain coenzymes and absence of others. Considering the fact that many industrial chemicals simulate the actions of certain endocrine activators, I wouldn't be at surprised if some of these chemicals simulated the effects of oncogenetic protein messengers. Research with breast cancers suggests a high correlation with certain toxins, including dioxin. All this just reinforces the importance of washing ones fruits and vegetables thoroughly and more importantly, buying ORGANICALLY grown fruits and vegetables. Though orthodox western medicine pooh-poohs the significance of diet in health, except for fat/carbohydrate/protein ratios, I'm onclined to attach a far greater importance to the old axiom, you are what you eat. Think of me as a double cheeseburger attached to a keyboard. ;-) Actually, I really enjoy all the wonderful fresh fruits and vegetables available year round, here. We have a very mediteranean climate here, plus irrigation. When it comes to great local foods, northern California is hard to beat, except maybe by southern France. If you have time to read, here's a book I reccomend: TOXIC DECEPTION, the must-read book by investigative reporters Dan Fagin and Marianne Lavelle, is subtitled, "How the chemical industry manipulates science, bends the law, and endangers your health." (Available from Carol Publishing Group in Secaucus, N.J.: phone: (201) 866-0490; ISBN No. 1-55972-385-8; and see REHW #553.) Best regards, Ty Ty Meissner E-MAIL: Ty.meissner@grape.net I will sleep and dream like the air, and move like the wind, with assion when it pleases me. The Universe is not up there... Its here, and we're in it, third rock out from the sun. -- Peter Spiro ... . Napa Valley California - home of world class wines. ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0507 * Origin: The Electronic Grapevine [707] 257-2338 (1:161/910) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBK00014Date: 07/16/97 From: RAIN Time: 02:21am \/To: DIA SPRIGGS (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: question DS> Does anyone know any sites on the web that contain the nutritive value of DS> different foods? No, 'cause I don't have Web access, but check around your local BBSs for shareware called PROGRAM FOR A SMALL PLANET. It's excellent. --- GEcho 1.10+ * Origin: The BadBoy BBS/Louisville, KY./(502)375-3677 (1:2320/150) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBK00015Date: 07/16/97 From: RAIN Time: 02:28am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: this echo Gods, this is sure a hostile, contentious echo! Isn't anyone in charge? After reading the last 100 messages or so, I think I'll stick to the much less angry and more helpful Alternative and Herbal Healing echo on Wildnet and HEaling Touch on PODS. --- GEcho 1.10+ * Origin: The BadBoy BBS/Louisville, KY./(502)375-3677 (1:2320/150) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBL00000Date: 07/16/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 07:52am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Marijuana & Addicti [1/3 JANE KELLEY was thinking about Marijuana & Addicti [1/3 and keyed into cyberspace: JK>AV>Not surprisingly, you didn't relate any of your literature JK>AV>citations to the issue we are discussing -- the addictiveness of JK>AV>marijuana. JK>I've told you several times to go look it up in the official manual JK>of mental health in this nation, the DSM IV. Jane, the degree of "addictiveness" of any substance is NOT cited in either the DSM III or IV. That is not the function of the DSM. JK>AV>What you have demonstrated is that mental health is in a sorry JK>AV>state if there are mental health workers who have blind-spots like JK>AV>yours. JK>We still have those who cling to old fashioned ideas such as those JK>spouted by Freud and Skinner in a day when brain imaging is being JK>used for a definitive diagnosis by those who really give a damn. Agree with Jane = give a damn. People who disagree with Jane = people who do not give a damn. ---snipage--- JK>SOME FOLKS DO NOT GET ANY REAL BENEFIT FROM POT USE! Since you said "some", am I correct in thinking that you do believe that the others, not the "some" you refer to, do get a real benefit from pot use? JK>And if you had even a fraction of real knowledge about this noxious JK>weed instead of the hype put out by potheads, you would know that. I am asking, because I do not use, and have never used. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBL00001Date: 07/14/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 08:31pm \/To: JERRYL EVANEE (Read 1 times) Subj: Lazy & Stupid JE> JK> After extensive reading in this area, I am convinced that those who JE> JK> use mind altering drugs do so because they are too blasted lazy and JE> JK> ignorant to learn what has been known for centuries by those who have JE> JK> the wisdom to know the difference. JE> And I tend to agree. There are rituals that ancient peoples used JE> to use to train the mind and body to use its full powers. These JE> rituals sometimes used herbs and ingested aids to reach that JE> state - but it was closely monitored for a specific purpose, JE> usually to heal the body or work out a certain problem. JE> Drugs for "entertainment" alone is a horrible twist. Something died along with the use of these rituals. A good portion of our inheritance should be the combined wisdom of thousands of years of known history. We deprive our young of that in every possible manner, beginning with the lack of discipline and structure for the very young. * SLMR 2.1a * My reality check just bounced. - JetMail v1.20*6 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBL00002Date: 07/16/97 From: JASON HUFF Time: 09:11pm \/To: ALEX VASAUSKAS (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Acupuncture AV> Alan Fletcher wrote in a message to Jane Kelley: AV> AV> AF> Notice you failed to mention what we could do a lot better and how AV> AF> the consequences of such actions would lead to a better world than AV> AF> that ruled by Nature and hence natural selection and the survival AV> AF> of the fittest. AV> AV> If I recall correctly, Darwin's description of natural selection AV> involved survival of the "fit". The fittest may have the most AV> influence, but as long as one is fit enough to procreate, one's line AV> will also survive. survival of the fittest is those best able to survive...smarter, stronger, faster, better camoflauged, whatever it takes. at the most base biological level the whole point to life is to pass on your genes --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: DiGiTaL OnLiNe MaGaZiNe - [409]8Ext-237 (1:3811/350) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBL00003Date: 07/16/97 From: JASON HUFF Time: 09:18pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: expert witness Jane, an expert witness is anyone the prosecution or defense can get to agree with their case and has a little experienc, degrees, and/or written a book --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: DiGiTaL OnLiNe MaGaZiNe - [409]8Ext-237 (1:3811/350)