--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBK00003Date: 07/15/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 08:26am \/To: ALEX VASAUSKAS (Read 1 times) Subj: Marijuana & Addicti [1/3 AV>Not surprisingly, you didn't relate any of your literature citations AV>to the issue we are discussing -- the addictiveness of marijuana. I've told you several times to go look it up in the official manual of mental health in this nation, the DSM IV. AV>What you have demonstrated is that mental health is in a sorry state AV>if there are mental health workers who have blind-spots like yours. We still have those who cling to old fashioned ideas such as those spouted by Freud and Skinner in a day when brain imaging is being used for a definitive diagnosis by those who really give a damn. AV>The familiar literary character who comes to mind in this regard is AV>nurse Ratched from Ken Kesey's _One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest_. AV>Unfortunately, these purported professionals refuse to leave their AV>own problems at home, but go to work inflicting them on others. Exactly. Discovered some of them when I was a student nurse back in D.C., those who could easily be mistaken for patients at the time. The only outward difference that the students could see was that they ate in the employee cafeteria which was strictly off limits to all patients at the time. AV>Considering what you have claimed above to be the breadth of what you AV>are willing to consider in evaluating herbs and treatments, I am AV>surprised at your conclusions regarding cannabis, which are AV>contrary to the knowledge and evidence of "the ages" and of AV>contemporary research. The record on marijuana encompasses 5,000 AV>years of human experience. It is used daily by enormous numbers of AV>people throughout the world. Estimates suggest that from twenty AV>million to fifty million Americans routinely, albeit illegally, AV>use marijuana without the benefit of direct medical supervision AV>and without any problems. Contrary to your representations, the AV>"age old" and contemporary evidence is that marijuana is not AV>addictive and debilitating for everyone, or most, or many. If you call being unable to get out of bed until afternoon a joy and a delight, being wigged out to the point where it is impossible to think, and producing children with mild birth defects no problem, than I guess one could say that. On the other hand, if you consider that going to jail for the use of an illegal substance, not being able to keep up with the rest of the folks in matters such as holding a job or maintaining a decent relationship, then I can relate to that. If you also consider that the use of pot masks the worst symptoms of alcoholism in the early and middle stages of the disease then drops the person abruptly into the chronic phase with a very severe physical reaction, then I can also relate to that. As well as those I have talked to who made their first admit to a mental hospital by the age of 21 after multiple drug use. SOME FOLKS DO NOT GET ANY REAL BENEFIT FROM POT USE! And if you had even a fraction of real knowledge about this noxious weed instead of the hype put out by potheads, you would know that. --- SLMR 2.1a This tagline stolen by Silly Little Mail Reader! * Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (253) 845-2418 (1:138/255) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBK00004Date: 07/14/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 07:55pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: A.D.D JANE KELLEY was thinking about A.D.D and keyed into cyberspace: JK>MB>Well, at the risk of getting raked over the coals by other people JK>MB>in this ec who do not agree with me, I feel like I really do need JK>MB>to answer you since y asked about ALTERNATIVE ways of dealing with JK>MB>ADD, and, as far as I know, I'm about the only one in this echo JK>MB>with actual experience with exactly what you asked about.... JK>Thanks for your post. It should inspire some other parents to try JK>alternative methods of treatment for their ADD children instead of JK>meekly slugging them down with Ritalin for what is called JK>"administrative convenience", mostly of the school system. Now, there's an old wives tale if I ever heard one. Doctors have to write the prescription, Jane. Most have a reason. Like the kid has it. JK>MB> The pediatrician prescribed Ritalin and a psychologist informed JK>MB>us that our child would not be able to function in school at all JK>MB>without Ritalin and probably only in "special" schools even with JK>MB>it. JK>This scare tactic works with all too many parents who do not JK>investigate all alternative methods. It is not used. JK>MB>We learned by trial and effort which foods affected her behavior JK>MB>and which didn't. In our daughter's case, milk and other protein JK>MB>foods had a calming effect. We were not able to find any JK>MB>correlation with sugar intake. JK>She doesn't have an allergy to milk or that wouldn't work. And some JK>kids do get very hyperactive on sugars. Each one is different. Kids do not get hyperactive on sugars. Need I post the clinical studies which debunk your bunk? JK>Did you feed her any food supplements at all? JK>Congratulations on a job well done. I agree, She did a great job. The kid did not have ADHD. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBK00005Date: 07/15/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 06:16am \/To: LISA MADGE (Read 1 times) Subj: A.D.D LISA MADGE was thinking about A.D.D and keyed into cyberspace: LM>Well,thankyou for replying so promptly,,,as you have a son with A.D.D LM>no doubt you understand that as parents and siblings it can be very LM>hard to deal with.We are only just realizing how much this disorder LM>actually affects other children in the family that don't have LM>A.D.D Lisa, it affects the **entire** family. Mom, Dad, the family cat. We go for family counselling. That helps. My SIL (wife's sister) is our only relative. She has __never__ watched our kids. ,,,,,,,,,I found your comments very interesting and thankyou LM>for the time and effort,,,,,it is unfortunate that there is so much LM>hype about A.D.D because it makes it very hard for parents to work LM>out who's right, Hype that is often wrong. Which really makes it harder. ,,,,,as I told you before Ritalin has had a dramatic LM>impact with my daughter eg: October 96 she just started treatment LM>and when tested her reading level was 6yr 9 m (she's 9) 6months later an LM>d her level went to 8yr 1 m,,,,,and now she is reading childrens LM>novels that before she would just screw her nose up at,,,,,having a LM>really lovely teacher from school who tutors her outside of school LM>has made a big difference,,,,where we live though there seems to be LM>little or no recourses to help parents and children, I live on Long Island in NY. There is not much around here. Most of it is done by cooperating parents. ,,,,,I got most LM>of my info on A.D.D from a book called "you and your A.D.D child" LM>written by Ian Wallace. When I first read this book I cried because LM>it was like the book was written about my daughter and yet I was also LM>angry because we have had problems since birth and all the doctors thoug LM>ht it was me who had the problem because there still are a lot of LM>doctors who don't believe in A.D.D,,,,,,so after a while you begin LM>to believe that maybe you just aren't parenting right, It is unfortunate that so many people still are like that. ESPECIALLY the doctors. The scientific information is there for the reading. ,,,,but after LM>implementing many of the suggestions from the above named book along LM>with medication we are all much happier and now have a daughter that LM>instead of saying she is stupid is feeling much more LM>confident,,,,,and is progressing everyday,,,,I will look up the info LM>you suggested on the internet it certainly is a mine field of info And loads of scare tactics by salescritters. LM>Trouble was I think was that I was looking up that other medicine you LM>mentioned pycno something and was coming up only with bad things LM>about Ritalin but as you say it was all adverts so of course they are g LM>oing to bag Ritalin,,,,,anyway thanks again ...... I call it pycnogoo....but I do take it, for circulatory problems due to frostbite that I picked up in Pakistan years ago. For THAT, it had definitely helped. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBK00006Date: 07/13/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 08:29pm \/To: MARK PROBERT (Read 1 times) Subj: A.D.D MP>MB>Way back in the 1970's, my (then) 5-year-old daughter was diagnosed MP>MB>as having "MDB" & hyperactivity-- later, they changed the terminology MP>MB>to ADD & hyperactivity. The pediatrician prescribed Ritalin and a MP>MB>psychologist informed us that our child would not be able to function MP>MB>in school at all without Ritalin and probably only in "special" MP>MB>schools even with it. MP>Back in the 1970's the diagnostic methodology for what we now call ADHD MP>was quite primitive. Many kids were mis-diagnosed. Heck, it even happens MP>today. It is absolutely impossible that your daughter was mis-diagnosed? IT is quite possible that you haven't the first clue, second guessing from your armchair as you write. MP>Also, even then, I would have classified your psychologist as not being MP>too bright. I hope it learned something since then. Just how should we classify the author of that remark? MP>MB>We ended up not giving our child Ritalin, and we went ahead and MP>MB>enrolled her in public schools. We didn't just ignore the situation, MP>MB>though. Our general goal was to help our daughter emphasize her MP>MB>talents (of which many were ADD characteristics) and preserve her MP>MB>self-esteem, so that she could achieve success. For instance, she MP>MB>seemed to need far less sleep than an average child, so instead of MP>MB>insisting that she sleep and making her sleep with medication, we MP>MB>taught her how to utilize those nighttime hours when everyone else MP>MB>was sleeping-- she would read late at night, or work puzzles. MP>Your daughter sounds very bright. What you did was to challenge her in a MP>way that worked *for her*. Many very bright kids are often mistaken for MP>ADHDers. There are many signs that are co-morbid. However, the ADHDer MP>has them to a far greater degree. Pontification doesn't detract one whit from the accomplishment of this family and the persistance they demonstrate to this day in managing to ignore what you and others like you advocate for their children. You just cannot admit that she is correct as it would place a whopping dent in your belief system which is based on incorrect assumptions about the human brain and central nervous system. How that function depends upon the state of the rest of the body, not drugs. * SLMR 2.1a * Press any key to continue or any other key to quit - JetMail v1.20*6 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBK00007Date: 07/13/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 08:25pm \/To: ALEX VASAUSKAS (Read 1 times) Subj: Acupuncture AV> AF> Notice you failed to mention what we could do a lot better and how AV> AF> the consequences of such actions would lead to a better world than AV> AF> that ruled by Nature and hence natural selection and the survival AV> AF> of the fittest. AV>If I recall correctly, Darwin's description of natural selection AV>involved survival of the "fit". The fittest may have the most AV>influence, but as long as one is fit enough to procreate, one's line AV>will also survive. We've been keeping what Alan would consider the unfit alive by artificial means for some time now in this nation. Several generations have now been on welfare which is about to end abruptly. We will soon see who survives this great experiment in curing social problems, Newt Gingrich style. * SLMR 2.1a * It's only a hobby ... only a hobby ... only a - JetMail v1.20*6 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBK00008Date: 07/13/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 08:19pm \/To: BOB MOYLAN (Read 1 times) Subj: marijuana & addicti [1/3 BM> JK> Just start with the official manual of mental illness in this nation, BM> JK> the DSM IV. It has material on marijuana scattered throughout, and BM> JK> you are free to find and locate all of it. BM> Gees Jane....Does the word "Janus" mean anything to you? Nope. Latin root of January, the first month in the calendar? There are many things I've never heard of, and I feel no compunction to learn to translate from the Sanskrit. What I am interested in, I learn. * SLMR 2.1a * If this were an actual tagline, it would be funny. - JetMail v1.20*6 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBK00009Date: 07/15/97 From: SUE SMITH Time: 11:41am \/To: MARILYN BERRY (Read 1 times) Subj: A.D.D MB> Despite doomsayers who predicted then and now that untreated ADD kid MB> up taking drugs, dropping out of school, being criminals, our daught MB> educated, has never taken drugs, doesn't smoke, certainly is not a c MB> and, in fact, works WITH the DA's office in their prosecutions of ch MB> abusers. MB> I commend you as parents! What a wonderful way of dealing with a problem child. I too, have a son that is ADHD and is currently taking destrastat which is similar to ritalin. However he only takes it during school sessions. I have attempted several times to take him off the medication only to see him falter along the wayside. Typically he is an honor roll student going into the 3rd grade now, but when he was off medications all of his grades drastically dropped, he was involved in disruptive behavior and seems to be overly sensitive. I placed him back on the drug and saw a marked improvement. I would much rather do something "natural" and ween him off the meds. Am definately open to suggestions. Sorry if this topic may have already been discussed, I am new to this echo and just read your message. Regards, Sue --- TriToss (tm) 10.0 - #0 * Origin: The Swamp BBS *352-546-4739* 24 hour free Access (1:365/44) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBK00010Date: 07/15/97 From: PAT BRADLEY Time: 05:51pm \/To: RICHARD KRAMER (Read 1 times) Subj: ALOPECIA Hello Richard > I have a friend who is now suffering from alopecia patches and she > has read > somewhere that vitamin B intake should be increased. Is this true? > If so, why? Dunno about vit B. Alopecia is certainly a symptom of vit A excess. It is also a symptom of many other conditions. I think your friend may do well to consult a skin specialist, rather than relying on 'distance diagnosis' - this is quite a complex area. All the best - Pat (RGN/RPN) --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Braintap BBS Adelaide, Oz +61-8-8239-0497 (3:800/449) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBK00011Date: 07/13/97 From: TY MEISSNER Time: 04:48am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Marijuana & children On 07-10-97 07:37, Jane Kelley typed to Alex Vasauskas regarding: => Marijuana & children <= Hello Jane, ------------------- >8 snip ! --------------------- JK> Those who use marijuana for medicinal, religious, or recreational use JK> are not responsible adults. They are under the influence of a mind JK> altering drug. You'd probabaly be surprised by the number of successful law enforcement officers, lawyers, judges, doctors, dentists, bankers, computer scientists, commodity traders, and NURSES who smoke pot now and then, for recreational purposes. Would you characterize them as irrsponsible ? I don't think so. There's a lot of hypocracy involved in the demonization of certain drugs, because its immensely more profitable to people on both side of the industry: production and suppression. Its ALL ABOUT MONEY, not morals, not justice, and not health. The prison industry is the MOST profitable industry outside of gambling - where the military industrial complex is shrinking due to the collapse of Communism, the slack is being taken up by the prison-industrial complex - the same one Eisenhowe warned us about. As long as we criminalize medicinal herbs, we can continue to fill jails with harmless lawbreakers. Good for Wall street. Bad for our health, as more and more natural substances are criminalized along with marijuana, mescaline, and other natural psychoactive herbs. Good for crooked crooks, crooked cops, and crooked bankers. Bad for our health and the health of our children. Regards, Ty JK> This is like saying permit the contents of the nearest bar at midnight JK> on Friday night to make the laws determining punishment for drunk JK> drivers. JK> * SLMR 2.1a * This tagline stolen by Silly Little Mail Reader! JK> - JetMail v1.20*6 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire JK> -!- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 JK> ! Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 JK> (1:138/190.1) Ty Meissner E-MAIL: Ty.meissner@grape.net I will sleep and dream like the air, and move like the wind, with assion when it pleases me. The Universe is not up there... Its here, and we're in it, third rock out from the sun. -- Peter Spiro ... Nice guys finish last, but we get to sleep in ... ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0507 * Origin: The Electronic Grapevine [707] 257-2338 (1:161/910)