--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBC00098Date: 07/03/97 From: ALAN FLETCHER Time: 10:08pm \/To: MEG UMANS (Read 1 times) Subj: ear wax Hi Meg, >-> probably better for softening a wax bung than anything else (using > Peroxide - H2O2 - in your ear will soften and float out hard wax. Does it give you blonde eardrums (only kidding)? Actually I get the doc to do it with warm water when I go for my annual checkup (I do some diving and it is thus necessary to have this checked out every now and again). Best regards, Alan --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: The Bear's Cave (2:2461/161.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBC00099Date: 07/03/97 From: ALAN FLETCHER Time: 11:00pm \/To: TERRY RICKS (Read 1 times) Subj: Virus Hi Terry, > I'd like to deal with these points: >> Not exactly...the success of a viral infection depends on them being >> able to overcome the defense offered by the immune system. > A task that is much easier to do for an initial infection. If the > immune > system hasn't been exposed to the virus previously then the virus will > have > an unprotected system to attack (that is the term that is commonly > used). > The immune system takes time to build its defence: a helper T-cell has > to > be exposed to analyse the new virus, make the appropriate interleukin, > which > is released to be picked up by a pre-B-cell, which will then mature into > a > B-cell that makes antibodies to that virus. This takes time. In the > meantime the virus is running rampant over the target cells. What you are saying is basically correct according to state-of-the- art knowledge on viruses but you are still missing my point that a healthy body has little to fear from most viruses. >> My point is that viruses are only a hazard to unhealthy people and > Based on the above, that's not entirely true, however, unhealthy > people, assuming that you mean malnurished, or immuno-compromised, are > definately at greater risk. Leaving out the unhealthy people who are malnourished..there are also a lot of people in the western world who are getting enough to eat and are still malnourished..and hence also unhealthy. Antibiotics taken in unconsciously in meat, for example (although they have no direct effect on viruses) run more rampant with the immune system than most viruses with our cell system. Your term immuno-compromised (egad!) would suggest that such dangers have been identified. Which person eating modern foods is not "immuno-compromised" nowadays? > If you have another definition of unhealthy I'm curious to hear it. A true definition of the term "unhealthy" would be a guarantee of perfect health. IOW, people are working on it (mostly in non-profit organizations which are continually scorned by the profiteers) but there is still a long way to go. What has been identified to date (I'll keep it short and simple) is that there is an inherent need for humans to live like their distant predecessors (i.e. before the discovery and use of fire) and hence live like wild animals when it comes to instinctive eating and parental upbringing and the respect and regard for other members of the same species. It is still being argued as to how humans lived this far back (as there is no fossil proof or other remains which give any clues) but it has been found in numerous studies worldwide that humans tend to fare much better (from the point of view of both health and longevity) when brought up in a secure and loving family background, in a relatively clean atmosphere, with a physical outdoor occupation and with as little animal protein (and certainly free of all pesticides, antibiotics and hormones etc.) in their diets as possible. In addition, much more attention needs to be payed to cleaning up our insides than our outsides. This is neither new nor revolutionary. Even the allopaths are aware of this. What is new is that people are continually demonstrating (through both health and longevity and what some allopaths would prefer to term "miracle cures" or "flukes of nature" or "statistically irrelevant") that it is possible to live well even today by adopting and adapting these principles to our modern age....and that the allopaths are slowly fighting an uphill battle in their attempt to prevent such people being either heard or even consulted. The demand for naturopaths (certainly in Europe) is increasing and being met simply because word of mouth on successful treatments leading to full cures spreads faster and thus extrapolates faster than any mere chemical treatment of symptoms ever did and ever will. They are undermining the law that only a registered doc is able to treat illnesses by merely selling themselves as promoters of health and better health..which is exactly what they are. The fact that many sicknesses disappear is merely an additional bonus. >> What I was implying was that industry is only interested in applied >> research which leads to a saleable product. All the rest is merely >> propaganda. >> > On this point we are in full agreement! I meant merely propaganda to the industry. :-) > >> OK, again, what's your point?!! >> >> You probably missed it as you are new to the echo. My point is/was >> that industrial researchers in this field (at least those that >> I know as well as those that they know) seem to be really >> hesitant about taking their own pills and preparations. > Yes, I understand your references to industry now. Apparently I did > "jump in" in the middle of a thread and repsonded without knowing what > came previously. > My impression is that you're not in the U.S., is that correct? > Where are you from, the U.K.? Yes....I am a Brit living in Germany (my wife is German). Best regards, Alan --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: The Bear's Cave (2:2461/161.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBC00100Date: 07/03/97 From: ALAN FLETCHER Time: 11:35pm \/To: TERRY RICKS (Read 1 times) Subj: Virus Hi Terry, >> Well I have a question for you: Now that it has been "established" >> that gastric ulcers are "caused" by the bacteria helicobacter >> pylori, how come we all consume this bacteria but relatively few >> in comparison develop gastric ulcers? It doesn't matter if you >> can't answer this question, but there are still a lot of >> microbiologists around (particularly those who "discovered" the >> pylori theory and are still bathing in the glory) who still choose >> to either purposely ignore or even question the credibility of this >> question. >> > As you have noted, the knowledge of this bacterium is relatively new. > It > is known that persons with blood type O are most susceptable to the > destructive actions of *H. pylori*. All other persons are mostly > resistant. > This is because *H. pylori* has a receptor site on its cell surface for > the > surface antigens on O type RBC's (I'm not sure if Rh factor is > signigicant). > In type O persons *H. pylori* will first remove the mucous layer that > protects the stomach lining, then it will attach itself to the lining > villi. Neither you are sure nor anyone else to date. The fact is, however, if it is possible to develop a vaccine which provides immunity to everybody against this virus then it is totally irrelevant whether people with a certain blood type are more susceptible (notice you used the the rather insecure terms "most succeptible" and "mostly resistant" or not. If a vaccine provides immunity then this is a sign that the immune systems of certain people are not reacting as fast to an unwanted bacteria as they should do. It is also an indication that the immune system in the bloodstream can get at and destroy this bacteria. Prof. Andre Blum and his team in Lausanne (Switzerland) have developed such a vaccine (no really great feat)..but are they addressing the real cause? They are merely producing a marketable product just as the producers of antiobiotics and anti-viral drugs (i.e. like the pharma company I happen to work for, for example) in order to continue their (often even desired) role of taking over the responsibility for people's health. IOW...our knowledge on improving human health is being hidden and even ridiculed (as well as being furnished with what one could describe as pityful research funds in comparison) in an attempt to develop a industrial answers to what are merely natural organisms which do their job when the opportunity arises (and thus maintain Nature's law of natural selection). > Hope this is helpful, Terry It was helpful in the sense that you and your kind (no offence to you personally) still seem to believe that viruses and bacteria are a danger to mankind. What kind of a mankind are you thinking about? One which needs a medical crutch to survive? And what advantages to this earth are there by prolonging the "life" of unhealthy people in an already overpopulated world (when many otherwise healthy people are dying of hunger etc.) and allowing them to pass on their "bad habits" to their offspring? Best regards, Alan PS Please note that I will be out of the country on vacation over the period 5 - 18 July and will be turning this echo off. I will thus not be able to receive any replies written and sent over this period. --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: The Bear's Cave (2:2461/161.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBC00101Date: 07/05/97 From: BOB MOYLAN Time: 11:30pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: A Drink Or 2 A Day Jane Kelley (On 03 Jul 97) was overheard expounding to Jason Huff JK> JH> correct me if i am wrong, but didn't you say in earlier posts, JK> JH> that the native americans have a genetic protction against JK> JH> alcoholism? JK> NO! And that came out of a long post telling you why. Liar Liar pants on fire!!! You posted the following on the date as shown below. Deny it and prove once and for all time that you lie like a rug! ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Area: ALTMED Date: 12 Jun 97 09:27:00 Public From: Jane Kelley To: Bob Moylan Subject: A Drink Or 2 A Day IF, you would take the time to attend classes in addiction studies, you would know that there is some genetic protection against alcohol, that the Native Americans have had it only for the past 2-300 years, -------------------------------------------------------------------------- ... Couldn't pour water out of a boot with instructions on the heel. --- PPoint 2.03 * Origin: What's The Point? Virginia Beach, VA USA (1:275/429.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBC00102Date: 07/05/97 From: JASON HUFF Time: 06:08pm \/To: BOB MOYLAN (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: A Drink Or 2 A Day BM> Jason Huff (On 28 Jun 97) was overheard expounding to Jane Kelley BM> BM> JH> correct me if i am wrong, but didn't you say in earlier posts, that BM> JH> the native americans have a genetic protction against alcoholism? BM> BM> You are not, she did. BM> As you've noticed Jane has a tendency to not respond often to direct BM> questions with direct answers. She's very good at obfuscation. yeah, but if she is "right" why doesn't she respond to direct questions? --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: DiGiTaL OnLiNe MaGaZiNe - [409]8Ext-237 (1:3811/350) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBD00000Date: 07/08/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 08:42am \/To: LISA MADGE (Read 1 times) Subj: A.D.D LISA MADGE was thinking about A.D.D and keyed into cyberspace: LM>Does anyone have any suggestions for a alternative to Ritalin???? LM>While this drug has had remarkable success with my 9 year old LM>daughter,its not something I want her to stay on permanently.There LM>is so much conflicting infomation on this subject all the Doctors LM>that I have spoken to REFUSE to hear anything bad about Ritalin and LM>say that it is all hype,but when you mention some of the (RARE) side LM>effects such as Leukopenia they do not denie it but insist that the LM>benefits outway the risks.Don't get me wrong I'm not against LM>medicine as I myself have Glaucoma and rely on medication for this,I LM>was just wondering if anyone out there has a problem similar to mine tha LM>t has found another way of dealing with it without the use of LM>"drugs". Eagerly awaiting for your reply...... Hi Lisa, It is a fact that there has never been any ingestible substance proven to be effective for treating ADHD other than medications. Methylphenidate, MPH, (Ritalin), has been on the market for around forty years and is probably one of the most tested and examined medications on the market. There is a load of "hype" (I call them lies) about MPH. It is the bane of the so-called Church of Scientology. Some radical right wingers in the US, notably Phyllis Schlafley, promulgate many of them. There is no question that numerous side effects have been reported. However, except for weight loss, there has been no clear showing that there is any direct cause and effect. As for the weight loss, eating around the medication schedule has worked for my thirteen year old who has been on MPH since he was five. You will see people say "we do not know enough" or "we do not know the long term effects". Hogwash. If you have access to MEDLINE, or any searchable database of medical journals, run "methylphenidate". Step back from your monitor, as the articles will over flow... As for the long term effects, there have never been any demonstrated. There are other meds for ADHD. One, Cylert or Pemoline, has a manufacturers warning about problems causing liver damage and, in a rare case, death. Personally, I would not use it. There are other medications that can and do help. Of course, you will run into all forms of salescritters who will hype the negative and (I know it is hard to believe) lie. One of the so- called alternatives is pycnogenol. It is extracted from a pine tree bark or grape seeds. The salescreeps who hawk one type will tell you how bad the other type is. It is still a chemical. What has worked fairly well for us is a combination of medication, parental training in handling an ADHDer, counselling for the family and my son, school modifications, etc. If you read most of the literature, the long term side effects of NOT treating ADHD properly are wasted lives, attempts as self-medication (often with illicit drugs) and incarceration. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBD00001Date: 07/08/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 08:47am \/To: LISA MADGE (Read 1 times) Subj: A.D.D LISA MADGE was thinking about A.D.D and keyed into cyberspace: LM>Does anyone have any suggestions for a alternative to Ritalin???? LM>While this drug has had remarkable success with my 9 year old LM>daughter,its not something I want her to stay on permanently.There LM>is so much conflicting infomation on this subject all the Doctors LM>that I have spoken to REFUSE to hear anything bad about Ritalin and LM>say that it is all hype,but when you mention some of the (RARE) side LM>effects such as Leukopenia they do not denie it but insist that the LM>benefits outway the risks.Don't get me wrong I'm not against LM>medicine as I myself have Glaucoma and rely on medication for this,I LM>was just wondering if anyone out there has a problem similar to mine tha LM>t has found another way of dealing with it without the use of LM>"drugs". Eagerly awaiting for your reply...... I got this from the CHADD website. TREATING A CHILD WITH ATTENTION DEFICIT DISORDER Issue: Treating ADD requires a multi-modal approach. For many children with ADD, medication, primarily psychostimulants, is an important part of treatment. Behavior management is also crucial. Without specialized interventions, most children with ADD find it very difficult to meet academic and behavioral expectations. Background: Treating ADD requires medical, psychological and educational intervention, and behavior management techniques. It requires the coordinated efforts of a team of health care professionals, educators and parents. Parents often play the critical role of coordinating the array of services and programs. A multi-modal treatment approach includes: > parent training in behavior management (see "Parenting a Child With Attention Deficit Disorder"); > appropriate educational program (see "Attention Deficit Disorder in the Classroom"); > individual and family counseling when needed; > medication when required Medication: Psychostimulants are the most widely used medication for the management of ADD related symptoms. 70-80% of children with ADD respond positively to psychostimulants. These medications decrease impulsivity and hyperactivity, increase attention and, in some children, decrease aggression. Psychostimulants used in the treatment of ADD include Ritalin (methylphenidate) -- the most widely prescribed medication -- Dexedrine (dextroamphetamine), and Cylert (pemoline). The specific dose of medicine must be determined for each child. To ensure proper dosage, regular monitoring at different levels of medication is required. Periodic trials off medication are conducted to determine continued need. The most common side effects of psychostimulants are reduction in appetite, loss of weight, and problems in falling asleep. These side effects are usually managed effectively by changing the dose of the medication. Contrary to popular perception, psychostimulants can also be effective with adolescents and adults with ADD. Antidepressants, used less frequently for ADD, have been shown to be effective with some children. They are used when contraindications to psychostimulants exist, or when psychostimulants have been ineffective or have resulted in unacceptable side effects. Changing behavior: Parent training, behavior management techniques, specially designed educational interventions -- all are designed to help the child with ADD adapt to his or her disability and succeed in the school and home and with peers. Once the child, parents and teachers understand that the child has a neurobiologically based disability, frustration with poor performance lessens. The focus becomes adaptation and the goal becomes increasing performance. Behavior management is an important intervention with children who have ADD. The most important technique is positive reinforcement, in which the child is provided a rewarding response after a particular desired behavior is demonstrated. See the parent training discussion under "Parenting a Child with Attention Deficit Disorder" for implementation of behavior management. Parents, teachers and therapists work to create an environment that maximizes the child's probability of success. Classroom success may require a range of interventions. Most children can be taught in the regular classroom with either minor adjustments to the classroom setting, the addition of support personnel, and/or "pull- out" programs that provide special services outside of the classroom. The most severely affected may require self-contained classrooms. (See "Attention Deficit Disorder in the Classroom" for further discussion.) ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBD00002Date: 07/07/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 07:26am \/To: BOB MOYLAN (Read 1 times) Subj: A Drink Or 2 A Day BM>Jane Kelley (On 03 Jul 97) was overheard expounding to Jason Huff BM> JK> JH> correct me if i am wrong, but didn't you say in earlier posts, BM> JK> JH> that the native americans have a genetic protction against BM> JK> JH> alcoholism? BM> JK> NO! And that came out of a long post telling you why. BM> Liar Liar pants on fire!!! Is this one of your wittier moments or were you under the influence of too much fire water over the weekend when you wrote this one? BM> You posted the following on the date as shown below. Deny it and BM> prove once and for all time that you lie like a rug! My estimate of your emotional age has slipped vastly since receiving this post. BM> Area: ALTMED BM> Date: 12 Jun 97 09:27:00 Public BM> From: Jane Kelley BM> To: Bob Moylan BM> Subject: A Drink Or 2 A Day BM>IF, you would take the time to attend classes in addiction studies, you BM>would know that there is some genetic protection against alcohol, that BM>the Native Americans have had it only for the past 2-300 years, This implies, to anyone who read the entire post and understood what is was saying, that 2-300 years is not enough time to obtain genetic protection especially with the advent of welfare and other methods of interference with natural selection. The Orientals, as I have said in previous posts, have had alcohol for thousands of years which is why they have developed a partial immunity to the worst effects. I really think that your time would be much better spent in classes on this subject than in these posts of yours, Bob. Especially ones such as this. * SLMR 2.1a * It's only a hobby ... only a hobby ... only a - JetMail v1.20*6 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1)