--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBC00078Date: 07/03/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 01:05am \/To: ALEX VASAUSKAS (Read 1 times) Subj: Marijuana & children AV> JK> Then YOU explain WHY many of those who start out using alcohol and AV> JK> marijuna switch to amphetamines and cocaine or other drugs and end AV> JK> up in a psych ward by the time they are 20? AV>Read the above and my previous posts again (if not the first time), AV>please. NO ONE IS ADVOCATING THE RECREATIONAL USE OF MARIJUANA OR AV>ANY OTHER DRUG FOR CHILDREN. Bull. Kids mimic adults. And adults who are stupid enough to have beauty pagents for seven year olds where they put on makeup and wear high heels don't have the good sense to keep marijuana or any other drugs away from them. Take a look around. Many parents treat their children as small adults. * SLMR 2.1a * This tagline is umop apisdn - JetMail v1.20*6 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBC00079Date: 07/03/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 01:07am \/To: ALEX VASAUSKAS (Read 1 times) Subj: Marijuana as medicine 1/ AV> JK> The "research into the medical benefits of marijuana" is touted by AV> JK> those who are determined to find an excuse for the drug of their AV> JK> choice in all too many posts I see. AV>No "excuse" should be needed for adults to do what they decide to AV>do with their personal lives according to their own prerogatives. We have laws against committing suicide and using marijuana and other such drugs is one way of doing just that.....slowly. I have seen most of your self styled experts before. They rank alongside of the folks in Seattle a few years back who used to run down to First Avenue from Fifth Avenue to buy drugs on their lunch hour. * SLMR 2.1a * hAS ANYONE SEEN MY cAPSLOCK KEY? - JetMail v1.20*6 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBC00080Date: 07/03/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 12:37am \/To: STEVE KEMP (Read 1 times) Subj: marijuana/men breast canc SK>JK>There were several members of my daughter's high school class who did SK>JK>not make it to graduation because of this "hardly troublesome drug". SK>How do you know this? Pot made them not graduate, eh. They died in automobile accidents around 2-3 am before they had a chance to graduate. The rate that pot leaves is different that the rate that alcohol does (go find out from someone who loves nitty gritty details, I don't) and that causes problems when kids are driving home from parties. Others die in their sleep from other drug combinations. I nearly had one teenager do so in an Alaskan jail on me......he'd gotten into this sister's Valium while drinking with his buddies. Went into Cheyne-Stokes respirations after around 6 hours of heavy sleep following an initial highly excited state. The EMT's had brightly strapped him on his back for transport to Ketchikan and I went in the small plane along with his father and the pilot. Fortunately I was able to slap him awake during the 15 minute flight and we radioed ahead for paramedics to meet the plane. I refused to allow him to be taken off the plane until both an I.V. and oxygen were started. It took until noon that day for his kidneys to begin to work again and for him to void. The sad part about this is that the doctor was too young and opinionated to know what was going on and so were the nurses in the hospital. They continued the I.V.and the oxygen as I knew they would. The high school and the Presbyterian minister knew what was going on and so did the mayor. This was on an island, incidently, several air miles from any hospital. The bush. The high school got a psychologist down from Juneau to make certain the kid was brain damaged. He ended up committing suicide a year later, after I had left the island. I'd taken care of some very sick patients in the alcohol treatment unit in a Seattle hospital before going to Alaska. I'd also learned about respiratory failure the hard way. Drug combinations are not something one likes to meet up with in any sick person at 2-3 am when the patient has outsmarted him or herself. I've seen enough of all of them to realize that no addict can be trusted with the use of any drug at all, even aspirins in some cases. SK>But I did say that ALL drugs and alcohol and even cigarettes should not SK>be consumed by kids. Just as driving cars is a right reserved to those SK>over the legal age to do so. SK>The acts of children need to be addressed by those kids SK>parents...PERIOD! They aren't MY kids..nor the governments. SK>JK>I have also worked in a county jail, several treatment units, and SK>JK>other places where those who were adversely affected by this "best SK>JK>drug" outlined the very real problems they had with the stuff. SK>So these criminals, drug addicts, and such were thus because of Pot? SK>Come on. It's alcohol that causes more crime and also more need for SK>treatment than Pot. Thus my point...the SAFEST. If it's not the safest, SK>what is? SK>JK>Keep on defending your "right" to use it. SK>I'm not defending my right to use it. I DON'T us it. I have. Therefore I SK>know what it is like, and I know what I'm talking about. I know that it SK>is quite a safe drug. SK>You can keep defending your belief that putting people in prison is GOOD SK>for them...better for them than smoking Pot. But, alcohol is A.O.K. SK>cause it's legal. SK> The use of it, however, is still a Federal crime. SK>Yep. A illogical and hypocritical system has made it so. SK>--- SK>* CMPQwk #1.42* UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY SK>--- HyperMail! v1.22 SK> * Origin: CENTRAL PARK WEST - FOLSOM CA - 916.351.1476 PPI 33.6! (1:203/14 * SLMR 2.1a * Press any key to continue or any other key to quit - JetMail v1.20*6 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBC00081Date: 07/03/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 12:39am \/To: ALEX VASAUSKAS (Read 1 times) Subj: marijuana/men breast canc AV> JK> did not make it to graduation because of this "hardly troublesome AV> JK> drug". I have also worked in a county jail, several treatment AV> JK> units, and other places where those who were adversely affected by AV> JK> this "best drug" outlined the very real problems they had with the AV> JK> stuff. AV>Notwithstanding your apparently unique universe that puts you in AV>contact with with a small minority of people with personal problems that AV>you and they like to blame on drugs or any other convenient scapegoat AV>for lack of personal responsibility, Steve is absolutely right. In fact, AV>the DEA's Administrative Law Judge, after evaluating all of the evidence AV>that the government could muster to prove that marijuana is harmful, came AV>to very much the same conclusions as Steve did. Judge Francis Young AV>determined that marijuana was one of the safest drugs known to man: Got news for you. No judge is educated enough in this matter to make a determination that makes any sense at all. Most of them haven't the faintest idea of what sort of treatment to mandate and so the problems keep going on and on and on. Judge Fancis Young is no better than any of the others. * SLMR 2.1a * This tagline stolen by Silly Little Mail Reader! - JetMail v1.20*6 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBC00082Date: 07/03/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 01:00am \/To: TY MEISSNER (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: No "Red Indians" Here TM> Many of my native American friends have been deprived of their TM> tribal/national heritage becuase they were kidnapped as children and TM> were forced to attend "Indain schools" run by the BIA, whose mission TM> it was to eradicate all vestiges of their traditional culture. The TM> government was very successful in that mission, and one of the TM> emptiest places in their hearts is the result of the loss of that TM> culture, history, tradition, including the loss of all that TM> traditional medicine. Met some of these in Alaska, went with one man until he died of acute alcoholism. I learned about this the hard way, as I learned most of what I know. He died on our small double ender in downtown Ketchikan in the summertime. That boat also killed the man I sold it to. TM> "Cultural genocide" may seem like a fanciful term to Europeans TM> (including Euro-Americans) who populate our society here online, but TM> it is VERY real and its effects are no less devastating than The TM> Holocaust. I'm well aware that this also applies to blacks. My family has a history since Cromwell's time in England of looking for political and religious freedom. The wars that went on in the British Isles destroyed much of the original culture there. At one time it had to be hidden in poetry and read only in code. This included some of the knowledge of medicine. We still have a lot of prejudice against the psychic healing that the Russians and some of the Celts have kept alive. The Natives who are cut off from their people are also cut off from the traditional healing techniques which have been used for thousands of years. Some may date back to Atlantis, others to ancient Greece or Egypt. TM> I know that criticising Europeans is the greatest crime I can commit, TM> online, and it will probabaly get me banned from this conference too, TM> but I'm very glad that Canada has not practiced this kind of book TM> burning of traditional knowledge, including the greatest source of TM> alternative medicine in the western world. The Canadians are closer to the source than we are. We had a bunch of rabid idiots land in New England and start to drown old women there. Old Salem was not a place to be if you were female, unmarried, and rich. That made you a target for the witch hunters. * SLMR 2.1a * On a clear disk you can seek forever - JetMail v1.20*6 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBC00083Date: 07/03/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 12:46am \/To: STEVE KEMP (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Witches, Druids SK>JK>Some minds are able to harness and use the electromagnetic fields SK>JK>around us. Others may or may not realize they exist unless they are SK>JK>shamans. SK>Damn, and you think I'M on drugs. For the best documentation on this sort of thing, try "Psychic Discoveries Behind the Iron Curtain" by Sheila Ostarnder and Lynn Schroeder. It was originally printed in May of 1970 by Prentice-Hall, Inc., my copy is a Bantam Book. The authors went through the Soviet Block in the 1960's where experiments with psi powers were taking place. The Russians measured the amount of electricity it took to perform such tasks as moving cards through the air. After extensive reading in this area, I am convinced that those who use mind altering drugs do so because they are too blasted lazy and ignorant to learn what has been known for centuries by those who have the wisdom to know the difference. You can also get into the stories about Castonadas which are novels depicting the wanderings of a white doctor in our southwest among native medicine men. Peyote was used on him because his mind could not go where the shaman wanted to take it without the drug. Then there are the books by an Indian (from India) doctor named Kurshna Murti, telling about how anything that a drug can do for you, you can also learn to do for yourself without the drug. That is, if you aren't both lazy and stupid. * SLMR 2.1a * I'm in shape ... round's a shape isn't it? - JetMail v1.20*6 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBC00084Date: 07/04/97 From: ALEX VASAUSKAS Time: 09:35am \/To: ALAN FLETCHER (Read 1 times) Subj: marijuana Alan -- Alan Fletcher wrote in a message to Alex Vasauskas: > Why do you consider marijuana to be an evil? AF> Any substance...either natural or artificial..which intereferes AF> with rather than promoting body functions (IOW any substance which AF> is not merely nutritious) is not conducive to good health and well AF> being (i.e. whether addictive or not) and can thus merely "treat" AF> some symptom rather than initiate a body cure. What about using intoxicating substances "medicinally" or "spiritually" to occasionally get out of one's head for emotionally cathartic or stress-relieving purposes, or for religious purposes? Neither of these uses are necessarily good for the body, but they may be good for a person's emotional and spiritual well-being. This is a benefit that is recognized and sought in cultures that may be categorized as Dionysian, as opposed to fundamentally reserved and sober "Apollonian" cultures like Germany or the United States, with its Puritan foundation. > AF> I would totally disagree that prohibition helps a government grow > AF> and become more powerful. It merely breeds people like 'ol Al > AF> Capone and his mob. > Prohibition naturally raises prices of things people demand, thereby > encouraging lawbreaking for profit. But, in the U.S.A. prohibition > has also increased the power and size of government in terms of > an expanded military, expanded and new police agencies, more prisons, > and the erosion of civil rights and civil liberties in the name of > fighting the crime created by prohibition. AF> Then we here must be doing something wrong....i.e. despite the AF> same prohibition we do not have either enough police or enough AF> prisons or even enough judges even for the crimes not associated AF> with drug use. This is because a lot of people have legal AF> insurance and drown the courts and overtax the police with petty, AF> stupid complaints (mostly against neighbours). In addition, we AF> lack a National Guard which does not have to concern itself with AF> things like traffic offences and noise complaints etc.. I wasn't suggesting that the U.S. government was being any more successful in making prohibition effective. My point was that the government was benefiting in terms of power and growth. And, notwithstanding the growth of government, police, and prisons due to prohibition, government still complains that we need more government, police, and prisons (even though the U.S. is now the no. 1 country in the world in incarcerating its citizens). Albert Einstein and our former President Abraham Lincoln had observations on this: "The prestige of government has undoubtedly been lowered considerably by the Prohibition law. For nothing is more destructive of respect for the government and the law of the land than passing laws which cannot be enforced. It is an open secret that the dangerous increase of crime in this country is closely connected with this." Albert Einstein "My First Impression of the U.S.A." interview, 1921, reprinted in _Ideas and Opinions_ (Bonanza Books) "Prohibition will work great injury to the cause of temperance. It is a species of intemperance within itself, for it goes beyond the bounds of reason in that it attempts to control a man's appetite by legislation, and makes a crime out of things that are not crimes. A Prohibition law strikes a blow at the very principles upon which our government was founded." -Abraham Lincoln (1809-65) U.S. President. Speech, 18 Dec. 1840, to Illinois House of Representatives Bests, Alex --- * Origin: 61 deg. 25' N / 149 deg. 40' W (1:17/75) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBC00085Date: 07/02/97 From: ALAN FLETCHER Time: 10:37pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: A Drink Or 2 A Day Hi Jane, > AF> This is all what is known as "training the liver". The liver can take > AF> ever increasing amounts of alcohol (especially a young liver) up to > AF> a certain point...but does rely on recognising the type of alcoholic > AF> drink being consumed. > Bull. What I was talking about in my post was the enzymes that have > been developed in some races over the years in response to the use of > alcohol. Lieber did a lot of work in this regard, you might try to find > it in the infamous data base you claim to have access to. I learned > about his work in 1979 so it had been out long before that, time enough > for it to reach Germany I would think. > The enzymes are alcoholdehydrgenase and catalase, among others. Some > folks are born with a marked lack of alcoholdehydrogenase and some folks > have plenty. > What you are talking about is tolerance, and, no one but an alcoholic > can consume a large amount of alcohol and function.......in the very > early stages of the disease. Yes I was talking about tolerance...what else. > Just as the French...who are used to drinking wine.. AF> can not take > beer...so it is with wine with the Brits and Australians. AF> One does > not become "immune" to alcohol (it still destroys brain AF> cells and > burdens the digestive and excretory systems by hindering AF> the intake > of several vitamins and also upsetting the intestinal AF> flora), one > just develops a certain increasing, albeit negative AF> "tolerance" up > to a point. This has nothing to do with genetics. AF> It's the same > with tobacco and other drugs. > I vomited more Vodka than I ever managed to keep down. In my case, it > is an allergy to potatoes. That is another factor in the use of > beverage alcohol.....allergies. Allergies hve nothing to do with the issue at hand and would tend to drive a person towards avoiding beverages which produce an allergic reaction. > And since you refuse to admit that enzymes have anything to do with this > or that allergies exist, you won't be able to understand what I wrote. I have never refused to admit anything about enzymes or allergies, merely that there is such a thing as a genetic alcoholic. To return to the issue of tolerance, it is perfectly possible for a person to develop a certain tolerance to alcohol (although not a healthy thing to do of course) without becoming an alcoholic. The present world would be in a much sorrier state if this were not the case. Alan --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: The Bear's Cave (2:2461/161.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBC00086Date: 07/02/97 From: ALAN FLETCHER Time: 10:57pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: A Drink Or 2 A Day Hi Jane, I'm not at all sure we are on topic here because we are mixing alcoholism (which in MY view is not an ALTMED subject) with even politics. Perhaps Dia could give guidance as to the legitimacy of this thread. > AF> > for in order to introduce treatment to the Soviet Union. That, > AF> > incidently, began during the Cold War era and probably contributed s > AF> > much to the Berlin Wall coming down as anyother action at the time. > AF> The Berlin Wall came down because the "East" Germans revolted...very > AF> quickly and before even the Russians could react. And Yelzin is an > AF> alcoholic BTW (as are very many Russians in powerful places). Dropping > AF> the price of vodka is a favourite method of keeping the folks calm. > Revolt of the East Germans would not have had an impact on relations > between this nation and Russia. Not quite sure what you are getting at here. > And this: > AF> > The Russian scientists were assembled in an ampitheater seating at > least > AF> > 500 to listen to a panel of the American alcoholics at one time. he > AF> > best of their medical people were there that evening, listening to a > AF> > bunch of drunks explain just how they had managed to quit drinking. > This was in Gorbycheh's era. His wife and daughter are highly educated. "Gorby's" Glasnost politics certainly led to the Hungarians allowing the first major wave of GDR refugees to escape unharmed into West Germany and was thus an initial trigger for the rest of the population to revolt almost en masse. > AF> They can listen all they like. The mafia "bootleggers" now even > AF> control the Russian economy. No company can set up shop there > AF> nowadays without paying protection money. Mafia films of > AF> executions of those who refuse are even shown on Russian news > AF> broadcasts. The whole country is now corrupt and alcoholism is the > AF> least of their problems. > Self will run riot seems to be in control. It is totally out of control and control will probably not even return if the Russians vote communist again (which is extremely likely). > And alcoholism is still one of the biggest problems they have there. The biggest problems they have there are an inability of the economy to compete on the world market (leading to unemployment and even famine- like conditions in some regions..and even in parts of Moscow), the fact that hoodlums now have almost total control of the economy and the fact that the proud Russian Navy are sat around twiddling their thumbs and itching to return to their former glory. Another revolution (with or without the effects of alcohol) would most likely lead to a return to the former communist system. > The mafia in Russia is run by > Russians, not Scilians with some immunity to alcohol. It is extremely effective, fast-growing and cold-blooded (even when operating in other countries such as Germany etc.). Alan --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: The Bear's Cave (2:2461/161.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EBC00087Date: 07/02/97 From: ALAN FLETCHER Time: 11:05pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Acupuncture Hi Jane, You wrote to Wayne: > WY> JK> There is something horribly wrong with his data base. Some of it is > WY> JK> very outdated, other parts just don't agree with what I have seen > and > WY> JK> read. > WY>It may go deeper - to the person who misread the "huge" data base! > WY>The data maybe old, but they should not sound so outrageous out > WY>of reality! > Some of the stuff he writes about was valid in the last century. As I am a member of the German Natural Hygiene Society (which you know full well), I would hope that EVERYTHING I talk about concerning ALTMED has been valid since man jumped out of the trees..and perhaps even for a few million years before that. I very rarely use the databases to which I have access in my company merely because they are totally allopathic in nature (unless someone asks about or discusses the pros..or cons...of some allopathic substance..most of which are herb-based..still..anyway). Alan --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: The Bear's Cave (2:2461/161.5)