--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAY00067Date: 06/17/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 09:37pm \/To: MARK PROBERT (Read 1 times) Subj: Surgery MP>SD> JK> If he looses the hearing in one ear, and then gets fluid in the MP>SD> JK> other ear, then what? MP>SD>Hearing loss from fluid is not permanent, since children outgrow it. MP>SD>Hearing loss from surgery is permanent. MP>Is hearing loss a possible result of the surgery? An ENT friend of mine MP>says no. MP>What is a fact is that the impaired hearing will affect other areas of MP>growth and maturation. You can recognize denial in others. Too bad you cannot recognize it in yourself. * SLMR 2.1a * Photons have mass? I didn't even know they were Catholic. - JetMail v1.20*6 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAY00068Date: 06/17/97 From: JANE KELLEY Time: 09:41pm \/To: ALAN FLETCHER (Read 1 times) Subj: Virus AF> Everyone who sticks to the subject of ALTMED (which is non-allopathic AF> and thus concerned with causes and prevention rather than treatment) AF> is welcome in here Terry. At the moment I would estimate that AF> the allopathics are in the majority in here..which merely (at AF> least to me) reveals their insecurity as to allopathic treatment AF> methods. Bull. Many of us believe in whatever works and some of the stuff you write about won't hold water. AF> > Making artificial hormones may help control diseases that are AF> > caused by a lack of that hormone AF> This is truly allopathic thinking Terry. 'Scuse me but I am not AF> attacking you really, just a common approach which is often heard. AF> The lack of a hormone is not a disease or an ailment..it is merely AF> a SYMPTOM of an underlying CAUSE. Unless you appreciate this and start AF> viewing things from this angle you will never really appreciate the AF> ALTMED movement or the preventative point of view. Either your body AF> is healthy (a woolly term which means in various stages up to the AF> ulimate goal of true heath and wellbeing) or you are suffering AF> from something or other WHICH ONLY THE BODY ITSELF CAN CURE. An opinion that isn't shared by the majority of folks. There are folks who need horome supplements at an early age. AF> My company is well into genetic engineering (we have a stake in AF> Genentech for a start) but this is not my concern. I delve into AF> all fields of interest "to the cause" and am lucky to have access AF> to a large variety of databases concerned with allopathic medicine. Just how old are these databases and what is your exact job description? * SLMR 2.1a * This tagline is umop apisdn - JetMail v1.20*6 - Unregistered QWK Mail Door for Spitfire --- FreeMail 1.10 alpha-3 * Origin: PEACHY KEENO INN BBS * Tacoma,Wa * (206)539-0804 (1:138/190.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAY00069Date: 06/27/97 From: BOB MOYLAN Time: 12:05am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: FDA Acts Jane Kelley (On 15 Jun 97) was overheard expounding to Meg Umans JK> It was the Israeli intelligence who stated during Clinton's first run JK> at the presidency that both Reagan and Bush knew all about the drug JK> trade and that this led to North's pardon by Reagan. good grief Jane you don't ever quit do you... You were "driven" out of the POLITICS echo for spewing exactly this same drivel and not being able to prove any of it. It's not altmed related in any way shape or form....but... PUT UP OR SHUT UP! ... Did you ever stop to think... and forget to start again? --- PPoint 2.03 * Origin: What's The Point? Virginia Beach, VA USA (1:275/429.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAY00070Date: 06/27/97 From: BOB MOYLAN Time: 12:20am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Ultimate Jane-ism! Jane Kelley (On 17 Jun 97) was overheard expounding to Mark Probert JK> She doesn't sell all of the preparations I read about from the parent JK> group which produces the list server I had at one time. You are correct Jane ... sort of... she doesn't sell "all" of the preps mentioned on your defunct listserv. What she has done is patent the brew and license it out. JK> I got a private note from an eminent person who lurks here telling me JK> that he will not get into a personal discussion with you (or anyone JK> else) where he will get into the likes of your notes to me. Will the mystery guest 'sign in please'! JK> It goes into detail about dietary barriers invloved in the JK> prevention and treatment of obesity in Down Syndrome. Aha! Prevention and treatment of OBESITY in Down Syndrome. Not, I notice, what you have previously been touting as a preventative for Down Syndrome. JK> The reference is: JK> J Amer Diet Assoc 1996 DEC;96(12) : 1262-1267 This is very close to being a first...from you ... a real citation... thank you. -----8<------ slash - gouge - rip - -------8<------- Being very much aware of the tendency of many people with Down Syndrome toward obesity I'll read the original with interest. JK> The person who sent this to me doesn't care to get involved with JK> those whose only goal is to be right. pfui... JK> I consider that a compliment. I consider it to be coming from someone who fears s/he will be unable to back up opinion with fact... ... Cats remind us that not everything in Nature has a purpose. --- PPoint 2.03 * Origin: What's The Point? Virginia Beach, VA USA (1:275/429.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAY00071Date: 06/21/97 From: TERRY RICKS Time: 10:11pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Virus > Kinda like being in the trenches or on the front line of modern > medicine. Yes, except it's the attitude of people that makes me ill instead of the bacteria I deal with. After all, its not illegal to kill bacteria, and it's really easy to do. People on the other hand.... oh well! * AmyBW v2.14 * --- FMail 1.02 * Origin: Electronic Avenue BBS 210-533-5668 San Antonio, TX (1:387/510) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAY00072Date: 06/21/97 From: TERRY RICKS Time: 10:20pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Virus > Alan wrote this: TR> > I am surrounded by a couple of hundred of you guys (a few are also TR> > good friends of mine) and it is enlightening to hear their own TR> > goals in life (rather than the goals of their peers). There are TR> > many people in this world who need to think about what they are TR> > doing...for whom..and why. > > And you responded: > TR> OK, again, what's your point?!! > > He is trying to prove that what you say is corrupted by our passion for > money over here. Jane, I wouldn't know anything about that. I'm a "civil servant"! There are NO large sums of money being offered to me for my expertise, and the last person that seriously offered me a bribe wound up paying a hefty fine to the City coffers, which all goes to police and fire because THEY have collective bargaining rights! THEY can negotiate pay increases, while the rest of us barely get along. * AmyBW v2.14 * --- FMail 1.02 * Origin: Electronic Avenue BBS 210-533-5668 San Antonio, TX (1:387/510) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAY00073Date: 06/26/97 From: ALEX VASAUSKAS Time: 10:46pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Marijuana Jane Kelley wrote in a message to Alex Vasauskas: JK> ...kids who JK> start out with pot and alcohol end up in mental units for treatent JK> of cocaine and ampetamine problems at the tender age of 20-22 in JK> many cases. This is not a rational argument for precluding research into the medical benefits of marijuana. Moreover, this contains two misleading implications: the idea that anyone is advocating the recreational use of marijuana or any other drug for children, and the myth that marijuana use causes people to want other drugs more than if they had not tried marijuana. Neither of these is correct. In the case of use by children, NORML, for example, advocates that children *not* use or be encouraged or permitted to use marijuana. As for the purported "gateway" effect, the valid, credible evidence is that there is none: [Excerpt from NORML's Principles of Responsible Cannabis Use]: When marijuana is enjoyed responsibly, subjecting users to harsh criminal and civil penalties provides no public benefit and causes terrible injustices. For reasons of public safety, public health, economics and justice, the prohibition laws should be repealed to the extent that they criminalize responsible marijuana use. By adoption of this statement, the NORML Board of Directors has attempted to define "responsible cannabis use." I. ADULTS ONLY Cannabis consumption is for adults only. It is irresponsible to provide cannabis to children. Many things and activities are suitable for young people, but others absolutely are not. Children do not drive cars, enter into contracts, or marry, and they must not use drugs. As it is unrealistic to demand lifetime abstinence from cars, contracts and marriage, however, it is unrealistic to expect lifetime abstinence from all intoxicants, including alcohol. Rather, our expectation and hope for young people is that they grow up to be responsible adults. Our obligation to them is to demonstrate what that means. * * * Adopted by the NORML Board of Directors February 3, 1996 Washington, DC copyright 1996 NORML http://www.natlnorml.org NORML Home Page comments: norml@natlnorml.org [END NORML policy statement] ==== MARIJUANA MYTHS Marijuana is a "gateway" drug -- it leads to hard drugs This is one of the more persistent myths. A real world example of what happens when marijuana is readily available can be found in Holland. The Dutch partially legalized marijuana in the 1970s. Since then, the use of harder drugs -- heroin and cocaine -- has DECLINED substantially. If marijuana really were a "gateway" drug, one would have expected use of other drugs to have gone up, not down. This apparent "negative gateway" effect has also been observed in the United States. Studies done in the early 1970s showed a negative correlation between use of marijuana and use of alcohol. A 1993 Rand Corporation study that compared drug use in states that had decriminalized marijuana versus those that had not, found that where marijuana was more available -- the states that had decriminalized -- drug abuse as measured by emergency room episodes decreased. In short, what science and actual experience tell us is that marijuana tends to substitute for harder drugs like alcohol, cocaine, and heroin. SOURCES The Dutch experience is written up in "The Economics of Legalizing Drugs", by Richard J. Dennis, The Atlantic Monthly, Vol 266, No. 5, Nov 1990, p. 130. See "A Comparison of Marijuana Users and Non-users" by Norman Zinberg and Andrew Weil (1971) for the negative correlation between use of marijuana and use of alcohol. The 1993 Rand Corporation study is "The Effect of Marijuana Decriminalization on Hospital Emergency Room Episodes: 1975 - 1978" by Karyn E. Model. --- * Origin: 61 deg. 25' N / 149 deg. 40' W (1:17/75) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAY00074Date: 06/23/97 From: ALAN FLETCHER Time: 11:04pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: A Drink Or 2 A Day Hi Jane, You wrote to Jason: > JH>that first part you say there is some genetic protection for native > JH>americans, > JH>but they currently do, and always have had a problem with alcohol. and i > JH>don't understand your rebuttal to Bob's comment at all. how does the > whites > JH>introducing alcohol have anything at all to do with their supposed > genetic > JH>protection? > I took out some of the verbage and left the salient points. If a group > has only had alcohol in its culture for the past 2-300 years, it hasn't > had time to build up any racial immunity to it. For example, we have no > racial immunity to cocaine or heroin, two drugs which are being used to > bring our nation down. > The white race has had alcohol for less time than the orientals who have > had it for thousands of years. That is why they tend to have the most > immunity TO THEIR OWN FORMS OF THE STUFF! If they get into alcohol made > from grains they are not used to, then they also get into trouble. > The Jews have had alcohol for many years also and most are immune to the > disease. They also use it moderately. This is all what is known as "training the liver". The liver can take ever increasing amounts of alcohol (especially a young liver) up to a certain point...but does rely on recognising the type of alcoholic drink being consumed. I remember back in my wild young days being able to consume 12 pints of English ale and still walk straight. I was almost flat on my back after drinking my first three German "half pints" (0.3 l)!! Just as the French...who are used to drinking wine.. can not take beer...so it is with wine with the Brits and Australians. One does not become "immune" to alcohol (it still destroys brain cells and burdens the digestive and excretory systems by hindering the intake of several vitamins and also upsetting the intestinal flora), one just develops a certain increasing, albeit negative "tolerance" up to a point. This has nothing to do with genetics. It's the same with tobacco and other drugs. Alan --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: The Bear's Cave (2:2461/161.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAY00075Date: 06/23/97 From: ALAN FLETCHER Time: 11:12pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: A Drink Or 2 A Day Hi Jane, > The Russians demonstrated more common sense than that after some of our > alcoholics in recovery went over there on a mission they began and paid > for in order to introduce treatment to the Soviet Union. That, > incidently, began during the Cold War era and probably contributed as > much to the Berlin Wall coming down as anyother action at the time. The Berlin Wall came down because the "East" Germans revolted...very quickly and before even the Russians could react. And Yelzin is an alcoholic BTW (as are very many Russians in powerful places). Dropping the price of vodka is a favourite method of keeping the folks calm. > That effort was begun and sponsored by Betty Ford. And I can assure > you, having listened to two of the first 50 Americans who went over > there, that they were heard. They were also respected, placed inside the > Kremlin itself and housed there for their own protection at the time > that we bombed Kadifi in Africa. > The Russian scientists were assembled in an ampitheater seating at least > 500 to listen to a panel of the American alcoholics at one time. The > best of their medical people were there that evening, listening to a > bunch of drunks explain just how they had managed to quit drinking. They can listen all they like. The mafia "bootleggers" now even control the Russian economy. No company can set up shop there nowadays without paying protection money. Mafia films of executions of those who refuse are even shown on Russian news broadcasts. The whole country is now corrupt and alcoholism is the least of their problems. Alan --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: The Bear's Cave (2:2461/161.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAY00076Date: 06/23/97 From: ALAN FLETCHER Time: 11:29pm \/To: MARK PROBERT (Read 1 times) Subj: A fact or two.... Hi Mark, > AF> > My youngest son, and you know his situation, has a classmate whose > AF> > is a foster child. The child's birth "parents" failed to have the > AF> > child immunized against polio because they believed the whacko > AF> > conspiracy nuts about the CDC, AMA, FDA, etc. The child cannot > AF> > walk. A tragic impact on such a small life. > AF> I, for example, am not a whacko conspiracy nut as I believe that > AF> every parent who believes in innoculations should go out and get > AF>their child or children innoculated. OTOH, the statistics in both > AF>Europe and the U.S.A. tell a very different story for every disease > AF>which has been innoculated against over the past few decades. Every > Alan, I have been to refugee camps in Asia, the Middle East and Africa. > Disease is rampant because of the fact that sanitation is non-existent. > When reasonable sanitary controls are in place, the incidence of disease > goes down significantly. Sanitation and better food are most certainly the best part of the answer and even you admit that the incidence goes down significantly with improved sanitation alone. > HOWEVER, and that is a BIG HOWEVER, that is not enough. Vaccination is > required, as that is one means by which some immunity is established. Immunity is established through contact...your state of health determines whether the contact has positive or negative consequences. Vaccination (if the serum is not suspect...and you should see the list of substances which are also put into sera) is certainly the only answer for the unhealthy and neither an adequate nor a recommended answer as it interferes with natural selection. The survival of the fittest requires that you get fit...i.e. rather than consult your doc. > It is a combination of many things which wiped out smallpox, and > vaccination was one of them. If you think about what I said above then you will perhaps understand that saving EVERY life on this earth is counterproductive to the human species as a whole. IOW...if I get unhealthy it is my fault (not the fault of some doc etc.) and I should accept the consequences. Smallpox is just as much an opportunistic virus as are all other viruses. It is only fatal to the unhealthy (i.e. whether they are purposely making themselves unhealthy or merely trying to survive in the wrong places..or even worse..becoming unconsciously unhealthy due to the type of food they are being offered or to the environment they are forced to live in). In principle..I agree with you..but I do not understand your approach. Best regards, Alan --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: The Bear's Cave (2:2461/161.5)