--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAY00047Date: 06/25/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 04:49pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Ultimate Jane-ism! JANE KELLEY was thinking about Ultimate Jane-ism! and keyed into cyberspace: JK>MP>has written much since she found a nutritional treatment for JK>MP>JK>her daughters' Down Syndrome. JK>MP>Since I do not sell it, like she does, I have no need to write JK>MP>that tripe. JK>She doesn't sell all of the preparations I read about from the parent JK>group which produces the list server I had at one time. JK>So that one won't hold much water at all. Does she sell some? That is water deep enough to drown in. Did she license out? That's enough for a good soaking. JK>I got a private note from an eminent person who lurks here telling me JK>that he will not get into a personal discussion with you (or anyone JK>else) where he will get into the likes of your notes to me. It goes JK>into detail about dietary barriers invloved in the prevention and JK>treatment of obesity in Down Syndrome. The reference is: Hmmm, a mystery person. Probably you met in in Roswell NM when you went to nursing school. Come out, come out, wherever you are. Any connection with eastern Virginia? JK>J Amer Diet Assoc 1996 DEC;96(12) : 1262-1267 JK>"Design Dietary intake was determined from parent-reported 3-day diet JK>records for children with Down Syndrome and control subjects. JK>Energy intake was compared with energy expenditure measured by the JK>doubly labled mater method. Body composition was determined by JK>deuterium dilution, bioelectrical impedance analysis, and skinfold JK>thickness measurements. JK>Subjects/setting Ten prepubescent children with Down syndrome and 10 JK>control subjects were recruited from the hospital community. The JK>study was conducted in the Clinical Research Center of the JK>University of Chicago Medical Center. JK>Main outcome measures nutrient intakes were compared with the JK>Recommended Dietary Allowances (RDAs) to estimate risk for nutrient JK>deficiency. Fat-free mass values determined by bioelectrical JK>impedance analysis and measurement of skinfold thicknesses were JK>compared with values determined using the deuterium dilution method. JK>Statistical analysis performed Unpaired t tests were used for JK>comparisons between subject groups and the Wilcoxon signed-rank test JK>was used for comparison of nutrient intakes with the RDAs. JK>Results The subjects with Down syndrome were significantly shorter JK>(P<.01) than control subjects; however, body composition did not JK>differ between the groups. Reported energy intake was lower in JK>subjects with Down syndrome. In addition, several micronutrients JK>were consumed, especially among nonobese subjects with Down syndrome, JK>at less than 80% of the RDA. JK>Applications To avoid lowering already inadequate intakes of several JK>vitamins and minerals, we suggest that treatment of obesity in JK>children with Down syndrome combine a balanced diet without energy JK>restriction, vitamin and mineral supplementation, and increased JK>physical activity. JK>The person who sent this to me doesn't care to get involved with JK>those whose only goal is to be right. I consider that a compliment. My goal is to prevent wrong. BTW, he said nothing about preventing Down Syndrome. Something that you alluded to. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAY00048Date: 06/25/97 From: ALEX VASAUSKAS Time: 06:08am \/To: LAURENT DE FONTENAY (Read 1 times) Subj: marijuana/men breast cancer Laurent de Fontenay wrote in a message to Gayle Licari: LdF> Are there any things that can be "harmlessly" smoked? Herbs or LdF> stuff? It is not likely than anything can be completely harmlessly smoked due to the byproducts of burning carbon-based substances. However, marijuana (and I assume other herbal substances) can be heated to the temperature (lower than the burning point of the herb) at which the desired chemical in the herb is released as a vapor. This is particularly useful for the ingestion of marijuana as a treatment for lung lesions, and it may be a very effective way of using other herbs that are supposed to have medicinal effects on the lungs -- depending on the substance in the herb that is desired for the treatment. --- * Origin: 61 deg. 25' N / 149 deg. 40' W (1:17/75) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAY00049Date: 06/25/97 From: ALEX VASAUSKAS Time: 08:59pm \/To: ALAN FLETCHER (Read 1 times) Subj: marijuana Hello Alan: Alan Fletcher wrote in a message to Alex Vasauskas: AF> I get the sneaky feeling that you misunderstood or misinterpreted AF> my former reply to your post. Marijuana..to me...is an evil..and AF> only hempseed (very nutritious) and hemp textiles (extremely AF> healthy and long-lasting) are beneficial to humans. Why do you consider marijuana to be an evil? > Unlike tobacco and alcohol, which are legal, > the federal government classifies marijuana as a Schedule I > substance -- equivalent to heroin, and people are sentenced to > prison for decades and have their property confiscated by the > government for growing or possessing less than a pound of it. AF> Here I would agree that it is useless to jail any junkies Since we were talking about marijuana, and I understand "junky" to be synonymous with "addict", are you suggesting that marijuana is addictive? AF> ...I am of the opinion that all drugs AF> are both dangerous and an answer to nothing Why do you believe that all drugs are both dangerous and an answer to nothing? AF> but that these AF> self-same drugs should be legalized and thus made cheaper to stamp AF> out both the criminal activities of the pushers and the junkies. AF> As to the junkies themselves, they should not be AF> treated as criminals but allowed to "go to pot" ('scuse the pun) AF> or cure themselves under their own steam (natural selection) and AF> out of their own pockets..as the case may be. Drugtaking is a AF> self-inflicted injury which should cost the state (and hence the AF> non-drugtaking population) absolutely nothing. The Dutch have AF> taken the first step in this direction and are AF> achieving remarkable results. What is referred to as "drug-related" crime should more accurately be referred to as "prohibition-related" crime. Then it would be easier to implement the sensible solution you suggest. Would you apply this same solution across-the-board to all people who undertake behaviors that increase risk of injury or ill health, such as poor eating habits and inadequate exercise? > Prohibition has helped government grow, become more powerful, > and been very lucrative for it. Consequently, there is a > substantial interest in demonizing marijuana and other substances. AF> I would totally disagree that prohibition helps a government grow AF> and become more powerful. It merely breeds people like 'ol Al AF> Capone and his mob. Prohibition naturally raises prices of things people demand, thereby encouraging lawbreaking for profit. But, in the U.S.A. prohibition has also increased the power and size of government in terms of an expanded military, expanded and new police agencies, more prisons, and the erosion of civil rights and civil liberties in the name of fighting the crime created by prohibition. Bests, Alex --- * Origin: 61 deg. 25' N / 149 deg. 40' W (1:17/75) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAY00050Date: 06/25/97 From: SARAH DURIS Time: 08:20am \/To: MARK PROBERT (Read 2 times) Subj: Conventional Medicine Well, folks, I can see this echo is a dud. I came hear to learn about ALTERNATIVE options. Do any of you people even stop to consider that I may have already considered the more conventional options? I was not born yesterday. I do care about my son which is why I consider *ALL* options. I am a skeptic even as far as alternative medicine is concerned, but especially with conventional medicine. I do not jump into anything, least of all surgery, without weighing my options. I do not believe everything my doctor tells me, without researching it on my own. Unlike some people here, I do not have blind faith in the medical establishment. I am fairly educated and do not feel any need to take anyone's word for it. -=> Quoting Mark Probert to Sarah Duris <=- MP> Is hearing loss a possible result of the surgery? An ENT friend of MP> mine says no. Doctors lie. I am reminded of this every time I step into an office. MP> What is a fact is that the impaired hearing will affect other areas of MP> growth and maturation. I had my son assessed by the local speech and language pathologist a few weeks ago. My son is in the lower end of the range for his age. My son has improved considerably in the last year. The path gave me some materials to work on this summer with my son, and even she agreed that surgery may be unnecessary. SURGERY IS A LAST RESORT!!!!! My son has already been assessed by an ENT who, in turn, is reluctant to go blazing into surgery. My son has already seen an audiologist who confirmed the hearing loss in ONE ear, but not the other. This hearing loss is not permanent. I had the same problem at this age, and while I learned to talk at a much later age than other children, this has not affected my intelligience (I was a gifted child) or my socialization. You would never know the difference talking with me now. If I were truly neglectful, as some of you imply, I would not bother looking into my options. I would not even bother having my son assessed. Since I cannot get the information that I want, and only flames, I guess I will have to learn everything on the street. Don't bother flaming me. I won't be here. ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- Maximus 3.00 * Origin: Dragon's Lair BBS (1:3404/143) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAY00051Date: 06/26/97 From: CHRIS LANEY Time: 11:14am \/To: TERRY RICKS (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: No "red Indians" Here ! TR> I don't give a rat's ass about being politically correct, in fact I TR> strive to NOT be politically correct whenever possible. I'm just TR> relating what I have learned from talking to N.A.'s themselves. I do hear, hear... Political Correctness must go! It's gone way too far... it's in the ridiculous area now......Since I'm white, would I be considered pigmentally challenged? (or just mentally challenged??;) Chris Laney ... Windows: Just say NO!!! --- Telegard v3.02 * Origin: The Circle Circus * Dale City, VA * 703-730-3115 (1:265/124) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAY00052Date: 06/26/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 02:42pm \/To: DIA SPRIGGS (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Acupuncture DIA SPRIGGS was thinking about Re: Acupuncture and keyed into cyberspace: DS>I gave a warning to Wayne about his posts to you and I see posts here DS>to him about Nazis and how many Jews were killed by them. I don't DS>think how or why Jews were killed has anything to do with alternative DS>medicine. DS>Since you two seem intent on fighting with each other...take it to DS>email, snail mail, phone calls or anything else you'd like to do but DS>NOT HERE. Why don't you hook up to one of those voice internet DS>telephone programs..then you could yell and scream at each other all DS>you wanted. DS>I will give you the same warning as I gave Wayne. I have asked DS>nicely and been ignored. If this continues your feed to this echo DS>will be cut. I have honored your request regarding those issues, etc. I will not post further. Read all of my posts in chronological sequence. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAY00053Date: 06/25/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 10:26pm \/To: ALAN FLETCHER (Read 1 times) Subj: Adhd ALAN FLETCHER was thinking about Adhd and keyed into cyberspace: AF> The statistics (including those of the U.S.A....read Sagan, for AF> example) tell an entirely different tale about the effectiveness AF> of vaccines Jane. AF> Why not, for example, get hold of a pack of DTP (diptheria, AF> tetanus and pertussis) vaccine and read the little slip of paper AF> describing the contents. Among the ingredients are: AF> Mercury: A toxic heavy metal known to cause severe salivation, AF> brain cell destruction, feeblemindedness, Alzheimer's AF> (most probably), toxic dementia, insanity and death. AF> Aluminum: Destroys brain cells and becomes part of the AF> replacement for them through a process known as AF> ossification. AF> Formaldehyde: A toxic substance used as a wood preservative. It AF> is toxic to human, bacteria and yeast cells (incl. AF> brain and nerve cells). AF> Caustic soda Also known as sodium hydroxide or lye arid or AF> DRAIN-0. Capable of destroying both animal and AF> plant cells on contact (incl. brain and nerve AF> cells) AF> Muriatic acid A synthetic version of hydrochloric acid. This AF> acid is designed to quickly destroy enzyme systems AF> and living protein entering the stomach. Can you AF> imagine what it does when injected into the AF> bloodstream? AF> DTP has been indicated as causing or leading to: AF> - Nodules and abcesses AF> - Mental retardation with learning disabilities AF> - Epileptic fits AF> - Sexual aberrancy How about a citation or two, or three to back this up? ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAY00054Date: 06/25/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 10:30pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: Bee Venom JANE KELLEY was thinking about Bee Venom and keyed into cyberspace: JK>GL>I have heard it is good for arthritis too. gayle JK>If you are speaking of bee venom, there is some concern about this JK>one as those who have a marked allergy can go into anaphalectic shock JK>and die rapidly if not near an emergency room. JK>There are those who keep a syringe of adrenalin on them at all times JK>when playing golf or engaged in other outdoor activities in order to JK>live through an insect sting. What you are referring to is an epi-pen. It also works quite well for VX and GB. But you have to be quick. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAY00055Date: 06/25/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 10:01pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 1 times) Subj: FDA Acts JANE KELLEY was thinking about FDA Acts and keyed into cyberspace: JK>MP>MU>wrote to the FDA to protest the removal of tryptophan from the JK>MP>MU>open market. It wasn't tryptophan that did the damage: it was JK>MP>MU>contamination. JK>MP>It wasn't contamination. It was blind faith in an "oriental" JK>MP>product where there was little, if any, quality control. JK>MP>Did you get to read the story early this year about the Chinese JK>MP>herbal medicine that was widely distributed in China that was JK>MP>laced with HIV? JK>And did YOU know that in the case of the BCG vaccine for TB that one JK>bad batch got through? This resulted in the vaccine not being used JK>by many doctors. It is used in other countries and by our BIA JK>clinics. I am not too familiar with the BCG vaccine. I know my friend Eric was leaving for med school in Grenoble many moons ago and had to take a TB shot in his axilla. It hurt him for two weeks afterwards. And he did not like my jokes about one-armed French doctors. JK>There was also one bad batch of polio vaccine that got through but JK>this did not stop the production of the vaccine. It did lead to that JK>which is swallowed instead. Not quite. The killed virus Salk vaccine was very effective,but not effective enough. THe research continued for a more effective vaccine, and Sabin developed it. He was not motivated by one bad batch. JK>Trytophan is produced in other places besides China. I have always JK>thought it very strange that the same president who pardoned North JK>for bringing in drugs would ban the one thing that was claimed to JK>work a miracle in detoxing patients from that same drug. I met Ollie's unit in RVN many moons ago. He had gotten them into trouble with a regiment of NVA regulars. I guess some things never change. What upset me about him was that he showed that he did not have one ounce of loyalty to his CinC in his body. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAY00056Date: 06/25/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 10:34pm \/To: LAURENT DE FONTENAY (Read 1 times) Subj: marijuana/men breast canc LAURENT DE was thinking about marijuana/men breast canc and keyed into cyberspace: LD>Hi Gayle! LD>On Friday, 20 June 1997, 20:48:46, Gayle Licari wrote to Laurent de LD>Fontenay: LD> GL> Hi Laurent, In the 70s they would make brownies and put LD> GL> marjuana in the brownies you eat the brownies and you get high. LD> GL> I don't recommend any of it. Tobacco or alcohol except for maybe LD> GL> a glass of wine now and again. Ciao, Gayle LD>Wise words. :-) I'd never have thought that eating the stuff could LD>make one high though. In the 60's there were many people who made chocolate brownies with marijuana mixed in. They would serve them to the unsuspecting at parties. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110)