--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAN00027Date: 06/10/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 03:11pm \/To: ALAN FLETCHER (Read 2 times) Subj: Abortion ALAN FLETCHER was thinking about Abortion and keyed into cyberspace: AF> Hi Mark, AF> > AF> > AF> > There is a rumor going the rounds that inncoculations AF> > AF> > AF> > are bad for children. There is no limit to what some AF> > AF> > AF> > folks will do to kill off poor people. AF> > AF> > AF> This ain't no rumour Jane...it is proven fact...and you AF> > AF> > AF>will probably get snowed down with quotes....including AF> > AF> > AF>from me...for saying that. ;-) Let's start with one AF> > AF> > AF>particular disease that is innoculated against. Take AF> > AF> > AF>your pick. AF> > AF> > Diphtheria. AF> > AF> A rather poor example because healthy people are totally AF> > AF> immune to it (the Schick Test easily sorts out those with bad AF> > AF> immune systems). In addition, the figures for diphtheria in AF> > AF> Germany show quite clearly that innoculations caused more AF> > AF> cases of diphtheria up to the time when antibiotics were first AF> > AF> introduced. Diphtheria innoculation started in Germany in 1925 AF> > AF> when there were around 40,000 cases per year. The cases AF> > AF> increased to a peak of nearly 250,000 in 1944 and slowly AF> > AF> dropped in a constant curve down to around 4 cases per year AF> > AF> today (Source: Federal Statistical Office in Wiesbaden). Now AF> > AF> you tell me when antibiotics were first used...and why a AF> > AF> healthy person should need either innoculations or antibiotics AF> > AF> against diphtheria? I would be interested in the figures from AF> > AF> the U.S.A. since 1925 BTW. AF> > Methinks that it be an mucho excellent example. The proof is in AF> > your post. Why do we have only 4 cases per year in Germany? AF> > Innoculations. AF> You seem to have a bad head for figures Mark. If German innoculation AF> started in 1925 and there were 40,000 cases...how come the cases AF> drastically increased to 250,000 in 1944?? A good question. Hmmm..let's see, what was going on in Germany during WWII? Oh, a little get together called WWII. Wars have a negative impact on the health of people. Diphtheria is a common complication of the illness of war. I watched plenty of people die from it on two continents. In addition they did not AF> reach the 1925 level again until 1952? It takes a while for a country devastated by a World War to spring back. And it is also interesting AF> that the figures were on a sharp decrease before the introduction AF> of innoculations (i.e. from 80,000 in 1920 down to 40,000 in 1925. Developing ideas about modern cleanliness certainly did help. AF> The German figures for TB show a similar trend. Cases dropped AF> from 76 per mille (10,000) in 1750 down to 15 per mille in AF> 1920 (when widespread innoculation first started). Ditto AF> the figures for the death rate from TB in the UK (a steep AF> drop from 4000 in 1838 to around 400 in 1954..when BCG AF> innoculation was used on a wide-scale). AF> The U.S. statistics tell a similar tale, i.e. that all dangerous AF> illnesses, whether it be diphtheria or TB or even measles and AF> whooping cough were on a rapid decline down to almost negligible AF> BEFORE innoculation was introduced. You ought to read your own AF> authors, e.g. T. C. Fry, "The Fiendish Fraud Called Immunization", AF> September 1995. You can then see for yourself that your statistics AF> tell an entirely different tale to what most people (obviously AF> including yourself) tend to believe. I read about Fry somewhere. I'll look him up. Let's see who he is associating with. AF> > In the US every state mandates innoculations for school AF>attendance. AF> > Innoculations eliminated small pox. AF> > Innoculations may eliminate polio by 2005. That is but a half AF> > century since the initial use of the vaccine. AF> Innoculations aren't eliminating anything Mark...and causing a lot AF> of additional problems to boot. I thoroughly recommend you read up AF> on this. I did. The CDC and WHO publish excellent factual, non-conspiratorial material. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAN00028Date: 06/18/97 From: WAYNE YOUNG Time: 10:35am \/To: HOLLY CAHILL (Read 2 times) Subj: Saying Goodbye -=> Quoting Holly Cahill to All <=- HC> I no longer have the time (or inclination) to contribute to this HC> conference. I'll still lurk occasionally and may be back after summer, HC> but for now it's adieu. Been fun. HC> Holly Good-bye there, Holly You've been very jolly! Come back to share the fun And I don't mean _no_ pun! All work and no fun Is a lazy son-of-gun! :)Wayne ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Maximus 3.01 * Origin: The BandMaster, Vancouver, B.C., Canada (1:153/7715) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAN00029Date: 06/12/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 07:54am \/To: HOLLY CAHILL (Read 2 times) Subj: FDA Acts HOLLY CAHILL was thinking about FDA Acts and keyed into cyberspace: HC> On 06-03-97 MARK PROBERT wrote to ALL... HC> HC> MP> The FDA will be imposing restrictions on the sale of products HC> MP> containing HC> MP> ephedrine as the uncontrolled consumption of this potent drug HC>has Any idea how they plan to do so? Ephedrine is an ingredient (so HC>far as I know) of many decongestant/allergy "medicines" HC>(Neosinephrine, et al.) Going to require prescriptions are they?? HC>Or do they just plan to restrict the sale of it in herbal "ecstasy" HC>and the like? Holly I would expect that the sale of products like "herbal exctasy" (or however the merchants of death spell it) will be either banned or severely restricted. The OTC preparations have tiny amounts compared to that swill. Ever drink neosynephrine? It is bad enough when a drop or two trickles down you throat. Yech. There has been a county wide ban on its sale where I live ever since one kid who had a latent heart condition took it and died. NY State also restricts its sale. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAN00030Date: 06/12/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 09:48pm \/To: DIA SPRIGGS (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: Genetic Religion??!!! DIA SPRIGGS was thinking about Re: Genetic Religion??!!! and keyed into cyberspace: DS>> ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! DS>> WAYNE YOUNG was thinking about Genetic Religion??!!!! and DS>> keyed into DS>> cyberspace: DS>Could you be a little more specific? Unfortunately I've been having DS>a lot of minor crisis and have not been following the echo as I DS>should be...religion as such is a personal choice and not a subject DS>that I want discussed in altmed. I was referring to Wayne Young's persistent use of the perjorative term "queer" and other homophobic comments. YOU had declared homosexuality to be off topic, and I was honoring that. He did not stop. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAN00031Date: 06/13/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 12:10am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: Alcoholics JANE KELLEY was thinking about Re: Alcoholics and keyed into cyberspace: JK>RW>JK> Not everyone will be alcoholic in SOME families..........but JK>RW>JK> the recessive genes can and are passed on. Alcoholism has a JK>RW>JK> habit of skipping generations which is WHY IT IS SO DAMN JK>RW>JK> IMPORTANT TO ASK the grandparents on both sides of the family JK>RW>JK> when doing a history! JK>RW>why is it just the great-grandparents? JK>Where did the great-grandparents come into this? A three JK>generational history is hard enough to obtain. If someone remembers JK>his or her great grandparents well enough to know their health JK>histories, that would be an exception. Most barely remember their JK>grandparents that I interview. Considering the type of critters you claim to interview, they ar lucky to know that you are there. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAN00032Date: 06/13/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 03:36pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 2 times) Subj: A Drink Or 2 A Day JANE KELLEY was thinking about A Drink Or 2 A Day and keyed into cyberspace: JK>BM>Jane Kelley (On 28 May 97) was overheard expounding to Alan JK>Fletcher JK>BM> JK> There is, incidently, no genetic protection against cocaine JK>here as BM> JK> there is against the alcohol. JK>BM> Do you mean to say then that just as you avidly claim there is JK>BM> such a thing as genetic alcoholism there is genetic JK>BM> teetotalerism? JK>IF, you would take the time to attend classes in addiction studies, JK>you would know that there is some genetic protection against alcohol, JK>that the Native Americans have had it only for the past 2-300 years, JK>the Chinese have had it around for a few thousand. Guess who has the JK>better genetic protection against alcohol? If you cannot figure it JK>out, write to James Milam, Ph.D. at Milam Recovery Program, 12845 JK>Ambaum Blvd. SW, Seattle WA 98146, phone (206) 241-0890. Dr. Milam's JK>expertise is well recongized in our Northwestern States and in other JK>circles as well. Which circles? Crop? JK>There is no genetic protection against cocaine in this nation. Is there any protection anywhere? JK>BM>... Is Australian ale made from kangaroo hops ??? JK>BM>--- PPoint 2.03 JK>BM> * Origin: What's The Point? Virginia Beach, VA USA (1:275/429.5) JK> * SLMR 2.1a * Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted! JK> JK>--- JCQWK JK> * Origin: My Desk, Puyallup, WA (253) 845-2418 (1:138/255) JK> ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAN00033Date: 06/13/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 03:40pm \/To: WAYNE YOUNG (Read 2 times) Subj: Acupuncture WAYNE YOUNG was thinking about Acupuncture and keyed into cyberspace: WY> -=> Quoting Alan Fletcher to Wayne Young <=- WY> AF> @MSGID: 2:2461/161.5@fidonet 4f971423 WY> AF> @REPLY: 1:153/7715.0 33976662 WY> AF> @PID: FM 2.11.SW UNREG WY> AF> Hi Wayne, WY> WY> >> AF> Bacteria and viruses aren't our enemies, they have just as WY> >> AF> much right to be on this earth as we have (and have been WY> >> AF> around a WY> >> Interesting concept... Hitler had the same rights too, was he our WY> >> enemy? I like you to answer that to Winton Churchill. WY> WY> > AF> A stupid comparison... WY> WY> > How's that? Both killed people indiscriminately! WY> AF> Indiscriminately?? WY>You know, without regard to who you are - men, women, and WY>children - when Hitler overran the peaceful neighbouring WY>countries, killing millions. Or you don't believe he did it? WY>Did you know England was hard hit? Or that didn't happen too? You just did not understand Alan. Hitler did not kill indiscriminately. He killed two classes of people: non-aryan and those who got in his way. WY> > AF> but yes...Hitler and Churchill also had just WY> > AF> as much right to be on this earth as you have (in fact more WY> > AF> right because they were apparently healthier than you). ;-) WY> WY> > I'm not surprised, you live only to insult people. Pot. Kettle. Black. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAN00034Date: 06/13/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 03:49pm \/To: WAYNE YOUNG (Read 2 times) Subj: ADD etc. WAYNE YOUNG was thinking about ADD etc. and keyed into cyberspace: WY> -=> Quoting Mark Probert to Wayne Young <=- WY> WY> WY>Very valid points, Jane. WY> WY> WY>"You are what you eat" applies to ADD too. WY> WY> WY> MP> Never has, never will. WY> WY> WY>Did you ever think about that before you spew it out? WY> WY>If you ask me nicely, I'll tell you the facts, as up-to-date as WY> WY>last week. But your pride will not allow that. WY> WY> WY> MP> ===>The Voice of Reason<=== WY> WY> WY>Blindly opinionated hot air! WY> MP> OK, post the facts. Any scientifically valid research published WY> MP> in a juried journal acceptable to the medical community will WY> MP> do. I'll make it easy: WY> MP> Name of Journal: WY> MP> Author(s): WY> MP> Volume: WY> MP> Page: WY>That wouldn't do you any good, after all, you already saw WY>"thousands" of them as you said; you wouldn't understand it. WY>I'll do this much for you though, because I want your son to WY>get better; I'll summaries it for you, for easy digest. WY>But you have to do better than Alan, you have to read it coolly WY>and think about it before you spew back saying it doesn't work, WY>like Alan did on another post about virus, ok? WY>DIET improves a medical/bodily condition by changing the body's WY>chemistry to bring about a biochemical equilibrium. WY>The basic life energy has 2 functional expressions which WY>influence and control the physical matters. These 2 subenergies WY>control among others the body functions and have to be kept in WY>balance for optimal functioning of the biological systems. The WY>endocrine glands whose hormones control every body function WY>would then be in top condition. These 2 subenergies are called WY>"yin and yan" in the Chinese medicine - the life energy "Chi". WY>The Chinese try to manipulate them with the help of accupuncture, WY>yoga, and with DIET. Modern science call yin yan as antropy and WY>ectropy, electron and positron, or simply matter and antimatter. WY> - E Frauendorfer, PhD, Calf., USA Wayne, I have often stated that I prefer to read original studies. I have found that even those with the best of intentions often miss a point or two that may be applicable to the issue at hand, Now, I would really like to read what you have so tantalizing summarized. How about it? Just a full library cite. I'll do the rest. BTW, the positron is not the anti-matter equivalent of the electron. I double checked that with a friend who is project manager and physicist at Lawrence-Livermore National Laboratory, and another physicist I know at Brookhaven National Lab. Both are particle physicists. Now, about the reference. PUT UP OR SHUT UP. I post my cites, when I refer to a book, magazine, etc. Can you be "on point" for once? ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAN00035Date: 06/13/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 03:55pm \/To: WAYNE YOUNG (Read 2 times) Subj: lucy WAYNE YOUNG was thinking about lucy and keyed into cyberspace: WY> -=> Quoting Mark Probert to Wayne Young <=- WY> MP> Let's try for some intelligent dialogue. WY>A good turn around for you, I like nothing better. You raised false hopes. Shame on you. WY> MP> I'll ignore your last comments... WY>What? My concerns for your son? WY> WY> -=> Quoting Mark Probert to Wayne Young <=- WY> WY> WY> JL> Karl Marx was using "opium" as a metaphor...So was WY> WY> WY> JL> Huxley...Opium, here is given as a metaphor for all mind WY> WY> WY> JL> alterants...Marx said that if you gave the people their WY> WY> WY> JL> religion they would be oblivious to all else and thus WY> WY> WY> JL> could run the state without opposition. WY> WY> WY>It is subject to interpretation, Jason, but Marx and his WY> WY> WY>subsequent government banned pretty well all forms of WY> WY> WY>religion except perhaps communism which really is a doctrine. WY> WY> MP> Not quite. The communism practiced in the USSR provided for WY> WY> MP> the religious needs of the people. WY> WY>I don't think you understand what you're saying: WY> WY>Religion is largely a free personal choice - you can go to church WY> WY>freely without consequences; WY> WY>In USSR, communism was regimented. WY> MP> I certainly do understand what I am saying. I am speaking from WY> MP> intimate personal knowledge of the USSR as I was posted to WY> MP> Moscow on two separate occasions. The KGB, and its predecessors WY> MP> provided the Russian Orthodox Church as a religious outlet for WY> MP> the masses, as it was a means to control the masses. WY>That's not an intelligent dialogue... Very FEW Russians go to WY>church! Perhaps you were posted to Siberlia, not Moscow? WY> MP> EVERY priest was an card carrying WY> MP> member of the KGB. WY>Are you saying you're an ex-KGB?? WY> WY> MP> In fact,the Russian Orthodox Church, WY> WY> MP> the only "legal" church, was a full chief directorate of WY> WY> MP> the KGB (the WY> WY>Think about THAT again! WY> WY>Did you borrow your data base from Alan? WY> MP> No, personal experience, US State Department briefings, and, if WY>you WY>The US State Dept was briefing you, an ex-KGB??? WY>Now you're a double agent? WY>What are you smoking? WY> MP> have a decent library near you, try to get your hands on a book WY> MP> about eh KGB. I suggest "Tower of Secrets" by a KGB LtC who WY> MP> defected in one of the finest intelligence operations conducted WY> MP> by the CIA. WY>Authored by CIA, sold under KGB for improved sales? WY>Just to prove to you I have an open mind, I'll look for it. WY>Did you read about CIA trying to do away with Castro? WY> WY>The church under Stalin ran pretty well underground, they can't WY> WY>say anything contrary to the State doctrine. WY> MP> Of course the Church did not say anything contrary to the State WY> MP> doctrine. The Church WAS the State. WY>Holy Moses, are you all right, Mark? WY>Are you talking about the Vatica or the USSR??? WY>Take a deep breath and see what you're saying! WY>You begin to talk like Alan. WY> WY> MP> 10th). So, if Marxist thinking says that religion is the WY> WY> MP> opiate of the people, then the KGB was a bunch of drug WY> WY> MP> runners. WY> WY>Yes, almost like the Brits in the Opium War. WY> MP> Communists were not stupid. If something worked, they used it. WY>No, but the Brits are not Communists. WY>The Brits use anything, including opium to murder thousands. WY> WY> WY>Israel is probably one of the most religious, yet its leader WY> WY> WY>was gunned down in public... WY> WY> MP> Judaism is different, because it is individual oriented. WY> WY>You will never find a more cohesive group of people than the WY> WY>Jewish people. The only group that come close is the Japanese. WY> WY>So don't say they are individualistic. WY> MP> I am Jewish. You are so wrong. I wish you were right. But you WY> MP> are not. One group of Orthodox Rabbis just declared my brand of WY> MP> Judaism, non- Judaism. Is THAT cohesive? WY>Yes, you ARE the odd man out! WY>Are you THAT important that they have to declare you an outcast? WY> MP> ===>The Voice of Reason<=== WY>I really need some proof now... For anyone with basic reading comprehension skills, it is obvious that you cannot engage in an intelligent dialogue. I was truly hoping to end the petty bickering, but, you could not desist. How sad. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAN00036Date: 06/13/97 From: MARK PROBERT Time: 04:28pm \/To: TERRY RICKS (Read 2 times) Subj: Virus TERRY RICKS was thinking about Virus and keyed into cyberspace: TR> Alright Alan, I'm going to butt in here! A virus is an obligate TR>intracellular parasite. It's bio-chemical make up includes one of TR>four forms of nucleic acid: single stranded DNA, double stranded TR>DNA, single stranded RNA, or double stranded RNA. The nucleic acid TR>is contained inside a protein coat that is called a capsid. The TR>capsid is made up of protein groupings that are called capsomeres. TR>Also kept inside the capsid are specific enzymes and control proteins TR>that have the function of taking over metabolic control of the TR>cellular host. TR> To say that a virus, or more properly a single viral entity, TR>called a virion, is metabolically inert is incorrect. There is no TR>enzymatic activity within the virion because there is no substrate TR>present for the enzymes to react with. The term dormant is more TR>correct. TR> While the "dormancy" exists inside the capsid, the capsid itself TR>is very reactive. Every known cellular form of life has a large TR>variety of cell surface proteins. Some of these react with food TR>molecules, to bring those molecules within the cell. Some of those TR>proteins, unfortunately are receptor sites for viral capsid proteins. TR>Whenever the correct capsid protein/cell surface protein come into TR>contact covelent and hydrogen bonds are formed. This then triggers TR>the action by the cell of "pulling in" the virus in various ways (the TR>mechanisms are very complex and can be discussed later if desired). TR> The effect is to "open" the capsid allowing the viral nucleic TR>acid into the cytoplasm of the cell. The various control proteins TR>also come in and take over the metabolism of the host cell. The TR>result is the replication of the virus, producing millions to TR>billions of virions. Once all the virions are matured the host cell TR>ruptures, releasing the virions into the environment. The virus is TR>metabolically active during the entire reproductive process and lives TR>at the expense of the host (definition of a parasite). This entire TR>process from attachment of the virion to the rupture of the host cell TR>is called the CYTOLYTIC CYCLE. TR> Viruses are NOT cells, they are obligate intracellular TR>parasites! They are dormant until activated by binding to a TR>receptive host. They cause disease by the destruction of host cells, TR>which disrupts the normal function of the organ that is made up of TR>those host cells. TR>Terry A. Ricks, B.S., M.S., R.S. TR>Istructor of Microbiology, TR>San Antonio College, San Antonio, Texas Hi Terry: Excellent, well written and I am stealing it. :) Could you email me at my Juno address? Thanks. ===>The Voice of Reason<=== mark.probert@juno.com --- * CMPQwk #1.4 * UNREGISTERED EVALUATION COPY * Origin: PC BBS : Massapequa, NY : (516)795-5874 (1:2619/110)