--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAM00022Date: 06/15/97 From: ALAN FLETCHER Time: 10:41pm \/To: PAUL MICHAELSON (Read 2 times) Subj: clinical trials Hi Paul, > AF> > Things that have been proven by clinical trials are considered > AF> > to be in conventional medicine, not alternative medicine, as I > AF> > understand it. > AF> > So nothing should be included in this conference that has been > AF> > proven by clinical trials, IMHO. > AF> ... it is thus imperative that any positive results achieved are > AF> documented and repeated elsewhere ... > I think you have something here. This is what the Natural Hygiene movement is dedicated to doing..i.e. on a non-profit basis for the benefit of mankind. Best regards, Alan --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: The Bear's Cave (2:2461/161.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAM00023Date: 06/15/97 From: ALAN FLETCHER Time: 11:09pm \/To: HOLLY CAHILL (Read 2 times) Subj: Nutritive Value & Plants Hi Holly, > On 06-05-97 ALAN FLETCHER wrote to HOLLY CAHILL... > AF> > The book is not loaded with this information, but it does appear > AF> > sporadically > AF> > throughout, ie: > AF> > Yellow Dock - Rumex Crispus (L.) food values per 100 gr. (3 oz.) > AF> > Vitamin A, about 20,000; Protein 2.1%, Mineral Content 0.95% > AF> > AF> This is what I mean..there is too little information around..and > AF> if that is all that book can offer...I do have a slightly better > AF> (but by no means perfect) source. Seems amazing (particularly > AF> after reading the nutrient content of those few wild plants that > AF> have been examined) that the scientists have chosen to ignore > AF> wild plants for so long. Sheesh...you can't make money by advising > AF> people to eat wild plants. > AF> > Exactly, it is not very profitable to advise people that eating their > lawns is just as nutritively sound as buying mass produced vegetables. > (probably more so, since you don't have to cook your lawn to death in > order for it not to spoil in 6 months) OTOH, even if that info were > readily available, I don't see where it would threaten the food > industry, > I still can't picture masses of people enjoying dandelions. Neither can I without a great deal of public education. Talking of dadelions though, there is a distinct difference between eating them straight off or mixing them with a spiced oil in a salad. I like dandelion stalks and leaves chopped up in a salad. The fact still remains that wild plants are far superior from a nutritive standpoint than any garden vegetable. Just for comparison, look at the nutritional figures for fresh, organically-grown lettuce and kohlrabi as against the wild plants galinsoga ciliata (GC) and malva vulgaris (MV), for example: In mg/100g Lettuce Kohlrabi GC MV Vitamin A 0.13 0.20 0.9 0.6 Vitamin B1 0.62 0.48 0.9 1.0 Vitamin B2 0.78 0.46 0.8 0.9 Vitamin C 13 66 178 125 Potassium 224 372 450 390 Phosphorus 33 51 95 56 Magnesium 11 18 71 56 Calcium 37 41 200 410 Iron 1.1 0.5 5.1 14 Best regards, Alan --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: The Bear's Cave (2:2461/161.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAM00024Date: 06/15/97 From: ALAN FLETCHER Time: 11:24pm \/To: HOLLY CAHILL (Read 2 times) Subj: Potassium Hi Holly, > AF> The recommended intake of potassium over here is about 2 g per day. > AF> A potassium deficiency in a healthy person on a normal let alone > AF> a vegetarian diet is unknown (daily intake averages 2 - 4 g). If > AF> you consider that this 2 g has been doubled and a little bit more > AF> added for safe measure then it is almost impossible for modern > AF> man to suffer a deficiency. A potassium deficiency can however > AF> occur in cases of heavy diarrhea or vomitting or through the > AF> regular use (misuse) of laxatives and diuretica. There are no > AF> known disadvantages from taking excessive amounts of potassium. > AF> in fact it is said to have a positive effect on blood pressure. > AF> But with kidney ailments which prevent the excretion of excessive > AF> potassium (particularly in conjunction with the use of diuretica), > AF> excessive potassium can cause severe heart problems. Personally > AF> I would forget potassium altogether as it is extremely unlikely > AF> that you are not getting enough. > I'm confused. My husband has high blood pressure and takes meds to > control > it. My understanding is that these meds also act as diuretics, so if > potassium lowers blood pressure, he still should not use p. supplements > (or eat more bananas) because he could endanger his heart? I was talking about kidney ailments (i.e. both with and without the use of diuretica) Holly, where excessive potassium can not be properly excreted. The regular use of diuretica and laxatives where there are no indications of a kidney ailment can cause a potassium deficiency. I would disregard the remark on blood pressure though as I said "it is said" to have a positive effect. The best thing for blood pressure is a largely vegetarian diet coupled with good water (at least this has been proven). As to taking medication for high blood pressure..in my opinion it is a waste of time..but very profitable for the medical profession and pharmaceutical industry. Thinning down the blood just masks the problem rather than either curing or preventing it. It certainly can be indicated in conditions where there is an acute danger of a heart attack..but I see no benefits otherwise. Best regards, Alan --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: The Bear's Cave (2:2461/161.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAM00025Date: 06/15/97 From: ALAN FLETCHER Time: 11:41pm \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 2 times) Subj: Acupuncture Hi Jane, > AF> > This is out of another post from someone else who also is trying to > get > AF> > you to look in another "data base" or wherever you find this sort of > AF> > misleading and incorrect information. > AF> Seems strange that a leading pharmaceutical company should have > AF> such misleading information. Perhaps you could quit blowing off > AF> Jane and give me some reliable quotes. Which I know for a fact > AF> you won't. > Alan, I don't know what company you work for, but the more you write > about what they know there and it fails to add up to what I have known > for 50 years or more, the more I want to examine closely any > pharmaceutical I ever have prescribed for my own personal consumption! Quoting a Merck manual from 1972 is not exactly up-to-date info. But there again, why are you worried about syphilis at all? It is an almost extinct disease in the western world. The figures have been plunging (even before antibiotics) over the past century and it has now all but disappeared (in spite of rather than because of safer sex practises). Alan --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: The Bear's Cave (2:2461/161.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAM00026Date: 06/16/97 From: ALAN FLETCHER Time: 12:15am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 2 times) Subj: Adhd 1/2 Hi Jane, > JK> > A friend downloaded something called Health Notes Online about > JK> > osteoarthritis which says that it develops when the linings of the > JK> > joints wear down from use or after an injury. > AF> Sure it can...and does sometimes...but this is not the main > AF> cause. The linings don't wear down from use though, they wear > AF> down from the additional weight burden carried by the obese. > Which can come from hidden food allergies and cravings. Food allergies and cravings are symptoms..not causes Jane. > JK> > "In the 1950's-70's, a naturopathic doctor named Max Warmbrand > used,JK> > with some success, a diet free of meat, dairy, chemicals, > sugar, eggs JK> > and processed foods for those with rheumatoid and > osteoarthritis. > AF> Such a diet is still effective today in at least RELIEVING the > AF> effects of osteoarthritis..but it can not cure it. It can and > AF> does cure many arthritis sufferers, however, and also prevents > AF> both gout and arthritis. > Insulin doesn't CURE diabeties, either, but it sure helps out with the > problems this can cause! Because you yourself are a sufferer it is understandable that you place a greater accent on relief rather than on a cure..and even more understandable when an ailment such as osteoarthritis is not curable. Nevertheless, this is not the way to go for the future, more effort (i.e. research funds) need to be pumped into prevention and hence cure (prevention is the only cure) and thus into the causes of diseases and ailments. > AF> cure. OTOH, if you have gotten yourself osteoarthritis then there > AF> is no cure except for an artificial joint and only relief in > AF> medicinal/herbal form (most medicines are still based on herbs). > I do not want to go through the surgery > necessary for an artificial joint. I am certain > that the depressant drugs necessary for the surgery > and for relief of pain afterwards will not do my > immune system any good at all. This is your opinion....but if you continue to take pain-relief drugs and antibiotics for the inflammations you have already destroyed your immune system anyway. My mother-in-law got an artificial hip joint about 5 years ago. She is now 80, doesn't take any medication for it, does not have any pain (any more) and is enjoying life to the full. I'm not an advocate of artificial anything if the condition that caused it can be prevented in the first place. But once the horse has bolted.... > JK> > Most of the studies linking allergies to joint disease have > focused on JK> > rheumatoid arthritis, although mention of rheumatism > (some of which was JK> > probably osteoarthritis) in older reports > suggests a possible link. > AF> If Mr. Taylor would realise that a food allergy is a symptom of > AF> something else..rather than an illness in itself..one could > AF> accept that there may be a link. > You will just have to understand that we stopped listening to other > nations a couple of centuries or so ago, and that we insist upon doing > things our way here now. Not true Jane. Please stop using the term "we" to mean the U.S.A. rather than you and perhaps a few others. There are plenty of good "alternative" researchers and medics in your own country who no longer suffer from food allergies BTW. > That includes listing food allergies or allergies as a disease problem. A large majority used to insist that the earth was flat. > I furnished these references: > AF> > [ Drovati A, Bignamini AA, Rovati AL. Therapuetic activity of oral > AF> > glucosamine sulfate in osteoarthritis; a placebo-controlled double- > blind > AF> > investigation. Clin Ther 1980;3(4):260-72. > AF> > Vaz AL. Double-blind clinical evaluation of the relative efficacy of > AF> > ibuprofen and glucosamine sulfate in the management of steoarthritis > of > AF> > the knee in out-patients. Curr Med Res Opin 1982;8(3):145-9. > AF> > Pujalte JM, Llavore EP, Ylescupidez FR. Double-blind clinical > evaluation > AF> > of oral glucosamine sulphate in the basic treatment of > osteoarthritis.] > AF> The sales talk of pharma companies and the researchers receiving > AF> their checks. > You haven't checked out the references above before that bit of > pontification. Naughty, naughty! There is no need Jane. You continually (purposely) choose to ignore my point, i.e. that studies of treatments are not studies of causes and are thus useless for preventative measures but extremely good for the medical profession and pharma industry. > I also wrote this: > AF> > People who have osteoarthritis and eat high levels of antioxidents n > AF> > their diets exhibit a much slower rate of joint deterioration, > AF> > particularly in the knees, than do people eating low levels of > AF> > antioxidents. > As well as this: > AF> > [ McAlindon TE, Jacques P, Azang Y. Do antioxident micronutrients > AF> > protect against the development and progression of knee > osteoarthritis? > AF> > Arthrit Rheum 1996;39;648-56.] > And this: > AF> > The antioxident vitamin E, for example, has been shown to reduce > AF> > symptoms of osteoarthritis. Many people take 400-600 IU of vitamin > AF> > per day. > And this: > AF> > [ Machtey I, Ouakine L. Tocopherol in osteoarthritis: a controlled > pilot AF> > study. J Am Geriatr Soc 1978;25(7):328-30. AF> > Blankenhorn > G. Klinische Wirtsamkeit von Spondyvit (vitamin E) bei AF> > aktiverten > arthronsen. Z Orthop] > AF> Free radicals attack and sometimes destroy cells...hence any vitamin > AF> such as C or E which provides a degree of protection has to be > AF> beneficial for any complaint. Such research papers are merely the > AF> attempts of individual researchers to gain attention and acclaim > AF> with deviating attempts at what merely boils down to reinventing > AF> the wheel. You are nobody in research if you don't emerge from the > AF> masses. > Dear me. Even the obvious German papers won't convince you to update the > data base. I couldn't care if they are German, British, North American or outer Mongolian. German and British and outer Mongolian researchers are no better than North American or Canadian researchers when it comes to wanting acclaim. I never was and never will be nationalistic. Humans are citizens of the whole world. > JK> > Boron affects calcium metabolism, and a link between > boron deficiency JK> > and arthritis has been suggested. > JK> > [Newham RE. The role of boron in human nutrition. J Applied Nut. > JK> > 1994;46:81-5} > JK> > Double-blinded research has found that 6 mg. of boron per day, > taken for JK> > two months, may relieve symptoms of osteoarthritis. ---------------- > AF> An even better way to get attention, i.e. mention a nutrient which > AF> is not even listed in the USDA tables (because nobody knows really how > AF> much you need and thus whether you have a deficiency...so no official > AF> bodies are willing to stick their necks out on this issue) and then > AF> just claim that it brings relief rather than prevention or a cure. > Alan, until you go find out for yourself that the insular attitude you > enjoy so much doesn't work in this day and age, there really isn't much > at all that I can say to convince you. Why should I be interested in dubious research which is merely aimed at relieving symptoms?? Alan --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: The Bear's Cave (2:2461/161.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAM00027Date: 06/16/97 From: ALAN FLETCHER Time: 12:17am \/To: JANE KELLEY (Read 2 times) Subj: Adhd 2/2 Hi Jane, >>>> Continued from previous message > I do hope you don't find out the hard way one day just how pitifully > inaccurate some of that same information is. Well I'm nearly 50...and only "suffer" from a wart on my right index finger. Ten years ago I suffered from all sorts of "incurable" ailments (which I have often mentioned in this echo). ;-) Alan --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: The Bear's Cave (2:2461/161.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAM00028Date: 06/16/97 From: ALAN FLETCHER Time: 12:39am \/To: TY MEISSNER (Read 2 times) Subj: Asthma' contrib [1/2] Hi Ty, > On 06-07-97 23:19, Alan Fletcher typed to Joyce Armstrong-cooper > regarding: => Asthma [1/2] [1/2] <= > Hello Alan, > ------------------- >8 snip ! --------------------- > Please pardon me for jumping, perhaps inappropriately into the > middle > of this discussion, but asthma, is very much connected with > environmental factors. For instance, in San Francisco, about 600 > of the 770 toxic waste sites identified by the US Frederal > Environmental Protection Agency, are located in the low income > Bayview-Hunters Thanks for butting in Ty. I've snipped the rest...about hormones... but will comment there as well of course. Your (presume quoted) paragraph up there says that asthma is very much connected to environmental issues. What it fails to say is that asthma is also prevalent (less prevalent certainly) in more or less clean regions. It also say that it was found to be more prevalent in a low income area (in this case with more toxic waste exposure). I'm no expert on asthma by any means but the fact that asthma is more prevalent in low income areas per se (i.e. whether exposed to toxic waste or not) was demonstrated by both Sagan (from the statistics) and Bruker (from his patients). It would certainly seem that asthma is a nervous complaint in the first instance..and that both family circumstances and even hormonal imbalances can play a role here. Assuming that an asthma patient can be born in a polluted low- income community (most probable) and even in a non-polluted high income community (less probable) then it would seem likely that family circumstances play the most important role. Assuming that the child in the poor community and the rich community both have a happy family life..then the theory on hormones which you quoted exhaustively must also play a role. But how can a child living in a happy family in a clean area get asthma from chemicals which affect the hormone balance? I would say from hormones themselves (i.e. the intake of hormones). This is certainly a common denominator between children in the country and children in the city. And where do these excessive hormones come from? From mass-produced meat. Best regards, Alan --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: The Bear's Cave (2:2461/161.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 257 ALTERN. MEDICINE Ref: EAM00029Date: 06/16/97 From: ALAN FLETCHER Time: 12:51am \/To: TY MEISSNER (Read 2 times) Subj: Asthma' contrib [2/2] Hi Ty, > ** The accelerated loss of species, which, according to the > fossil record, is now occurring at rates 10 to 1000 times as fast > as natural background rates that were occurring before humans > appeared on the scene (REHW #441); > ** Acid rain damaging lakes, killing trees, stunting forests, and > washing nutrients from soils across much of the northeastern > U.S., southern Canada, and northern Europe (REHW #476); ** > Rapidly increasing immune system disorders such as asthma (REHW > #374) and diabetes (REHW #417); > ** Epidemics of disease among marine mammals (seals, dolphins, > etc.), apparently related to chemical contamination and to blooms > of toxic algae caused by excesses of nutrients (chiefly nitrogen > and phosphorus) in near-shore marine ecosystems (REHW #466); > ** Diminished IQ and reduced ability to concentrate among 1.7 > million American children and 300 to 400 thousand fetuses (at any > given moment in time), as a result of exposures to the toxic > metal, lead (REHW #369); > ** Disappearance or decline of some frog and other amphibian > populations worldwide (REHW #380, #441); > ** Steep declines or near-total depletion of fish stocks at 13 of > the world's 17 major fisheries (REHW #399). > ** Decline of 50% in sperm among men in industrial countries > (REHW #432, #446, #448), and a significant loss of sperm quality > during the same period. > ** A 60% increase in the rate of migraine headaches among > Americans during the period 1980 to 1990. Most (71%) of the > increase occurred among people aged less than 45 years.[4] > This does not exhaust the evidence, but represents a fair sample > of the kinds of problems that have suddenly loomed into view > since 1970. Have we encountered the last of such unsuspected and > unlooked-for problems? Certainly not. No, there doesn't seem to > be any doubt about it: we are rushing forward at high speed with > no sure way to learn what hazards lie ahead. We really are > flying blind. To us, this seems the most important lesson of OUR > STOLEN FUTURE. > Under such circumstances, can science provide us with adequate > guidance? Next week. > --Peter Montague Whereas I can understand Peter's concern...he sure seems to be putting a load of eggs into a load of different baskets. Sure..he has every right to be worried..about acid rain..about everything else he mentions. But he he should perhaps calm down a bit and try to address each problem individually with the knowledge (and common sense) at hand. Scaremongering sells newspapers and magazine articles but it doesn't provide feasible solutions. The statistics certainly do show that we are flying blind..and most are even prepared to accept death at around 75 as long as they have been monetarily and religiously blessed. Is this the answer? Best regards, Alan --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: The Bear's Cave (2:2461/161.5)