--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 254 SAILING Ref: CDE00019 Date: 09/05/95 From: MURRAY CLELAND Time: 04:32pm \/To: GEORGE SKINNER (Read 7 times) Subj: fast Siren? 1/ 3 Hi George. GS==>Murray: When we were healing that evening, bot my brother and myself GS==>weigh about 250 pounds each and we were on the windward side. I could GS==>also see some water splashing onto the deck through the side window. Sounds like it was a wild, fun trip! GS==> The are places that can make you a custom keel, I know the siren has a GS==>weighted keel and probably weighs between 100 to 200 pounds. I believe your are right. GS==>Sandpiper's keel weighs 200 pounds, that is in the owners manual. If you GS==>were not going to trailer the boat a longer keel would help to keep it GS==>more upright and help to minimize sideslip therefore increasing the hull GS==>speed slightly in faster wind. If I went to a longer centreboard, I doubt that it would fit into the slot for retracting. The water at our dock gets quite shallow at this time of year, so that might not be the best route. Now, if I were to make it wider, so it would still retract except for the added on leading edge, that might do it while only adding a few inches to the retracted draught. GS==>together. I would think that the Siren should be able to easily maintain GS==>a speed of about 6 knots or maybe a little more. One of these days I'll sail beside a friend with a speedometer and get an idea about what she'll do. GS==> I saw Lasers and they were using the bosun seats to prevent GS==>them from going over. By the way you would not get me in one of those GS==>dunking seats, I like keeping dry when I sail! Harummph.... obviously not a windsurfer at heart ;-) Happy sailing. Let's hope for a pleasant Fall. Murray * Live an E.P.I.C. Lifestyle - Enthusiastic, Positive, In Control :=) --- RoseReader 2.50 P007867 Entered at [ENCODE ONLINE] --- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0313 * Origin: Encode Online Orillia,Ont.705-327-7629 (1:252/305) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 254 SAILING Ref: CDE00020 Date: 09/04/95 From: CHRIS KAGY Time: 10:36am \/To: ALL (Read 7 times) Subj: Zuma? I'm bummed. This weekend had great winds and sunny skys and I couldn't go sailing. Sigh. Instead, I went to a dealer and poked around the showroom. My wife and I live in a shoebox apartment and pay her law school tuition on my non-profit salary, so I wasn't looking at anything that couldn't be car topped. Anyway, there was this cute looking catboat from SunfishLaser called the Zuma. It looked a bit like the Laser but was a smidge shorter overall. The neat thing, though, is that it has a cockpit well that is about 7' long! You really could take this thing out with a second person, I think. Anyone have any experience with this little thingie? -chris p.s. I know this is something of a departure from the cruising discussions here...please humor a newbie sailor... --- MacWoof 1.5.3 * Origin: Kegster's Place -- Arlington, VA (1:109/70.882@fidonet) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 254 SAILING Ref: CDE00021 Date: 09/02/95 From: ROBERT RAYFIELD Time: 07:16am \/To: EDWIN AUTY (Read 7 times) Subj: fast Siren? EA>-> Do you think that he will get a boat that meets his needs? hmm.... EA>He will if he's willing to pay for it,that is, if he knows what his EA>needs are. Your advice for more research is invaluable. I'm sure he will EA>do more. Even if he doesn't, the dreaming will be fun! R * OLX 2.1 TD * This tagline needs help badly. * S2S Toronto, Ontario (416) 975-1547 --- WM v3.11/93-0359 * Origin: Ship to Shore, Vancouver,BC [604]540-9596 (1:153/7064.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 254 SAILING Ref: CDE00022 Date: 09/02/95 From: ROBERT RAYFIELD Time: 07:22am \/To: EDWIN AUTY (Read 7 times) Subj: fast Siren? 1/ 3 EA>Murray.. EA>-> MC>That gives my Siren a hull speed of about 5.6 knots. Knots??? EA>-> MC>What are they in MPH? EA>-> EA>-> A knot is about 1.15 miles per hour. A nautical mile (upon which a EA>-> knot is based) is EGGZACKLY one minute of latitude. A very hand EA>-> unitto use EA> 5.6 knots is the hull speed of a Siren? I Don't think so. Hi Murry and Edwin, Edwin's right, I think. I get about 5.2 knots as hull speed for a Siren using 15 feet as waterlinge lenght. if you use 13 feet, you get about 4.8 knots. r * OLX 2.1 TD * One man's bait is another man's sushi! * S2S Toronto, Ontario (416) 975-1547 --- WM v3.11/93-0359 * Origin: Ship to Shore, Vancouver,BC [604]540-9596 (1:153/7064.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 254 SAILING Ref: CDE00023 Date: 09/04/95 From: ROBERT RAYFIELD Time: 01:49pm \/To: MURRAY CLELAND (Read 7 times) Subj: fast Siren? 1/ 3 MC>I sailed (more or less) my windsurfer around Toronto Island in a MC>race called the "Mamoth Marathon" - Moderate winds for part of the MC>way, but when I reached the "Western Gap" with the waves deflecting MC>from all directions, the breezes were too light for me to remain MC>hooked in and leaning on the sail for support... I'd like to have a MC>t-shirt printed that says, "I swam the Western Gap". MC>Tried it again next year overpowered and in very high winds. Didn't MC>make it to the Western Gap, I went through my sail, destroying it and MC>my self concept. Worse yet, when the zodiac that picked me up and MC>took me to shore dropped me off, I slid into the water and found that MC>my harness hook was caught on a rope, so I couldn't touch bottom and I MC>couldn't climb back in... just dangled there like a fool.... ah well. The 17th is our club's Around the Island race. Our rules allow you to choose the direction that you go; clockwise or counterclockwise! This, persumably would make the dreaded Western Gap less challenging... Perhaps you could suggest this to the organizers. btw, the Western Gap is usually terrible for ALL sailboats; not just little ones. r MC>RR==>The 16 is better. It is the same hull as a Wayfarer, but, (he go MC>some MC>RR==>more flames) not as well built. Lots of little things are better on MC>RR==>Wayfarer, tapered mast, better fittings, etc. If you have the hoice, MC>RR==>go for a Wayfarer... MC>Seems to me that the CL16 and I suppose the Wayfarer, cost about the MC>same as I might get for my Siren... and I'd have to give up all that MC>comfort and intimacy Murray, The nice thing about a "class boat" is that you might end up sailing a lot more - because you could race (which is just an excuse to go sailing) Forget the bucks for now! Start by figuring out what type of boat would suit you best; then we'll figure out a way for you to get it! Now, I want a Whitbread 30... hmmmmm. MC> * Live an E.P.I.C. Lifestyle - Enthusiastic, Positive, In Control :=) Forget the in-control part if you want to fly your spinaker in strong wind! All the best, r * OLX 2.1 TD * One man's bait is another man's sushi! * S2S Toronto, Ontario (416) 975-1547 --- WM v3.11/93-0359 * Origin: Ship to Shore, Vancouver,BC [604]540-9596 (1:153/7064.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 254 SAILING Ref: CDE00024 Date: 09/04/95 From: ROBERT RAYFIELD Time: 02:12pm \/To: GEORGE SKINNER (Read 7 times) Subj: fast Siren? 1/ 3 EA>-> tuesday evening and on a run and beam reach I had it up to 8 knots EA>-> and between a 25-30 degree heel. On the reach she starts to become a EA>-> little unstable at that angle of heel, possibly a reefed sail or EA>-> using a smaller jib might have allowed me to maintain the 8 knots EA>-> without heeling so much but I have noticed that anywhere from about EA>-> 7-8 knots on EA>h***George EA>Are you sure your knotmeter is adjusted correctly? That's fast for the EA>boat size! EA>Fair winds! Ed George, I agree with Ed. Last Tuesday, on a slighlty-broader-than-beam reach, with full main and spinnaker controlled by a competent racing crew, in a 25 knot gust, my boat, a Martin 242, hit 9.3 knots, for a brief period. That's with nearly 600 square feet of sail area and only about 2700 lbs of boat. On a CS30, yesterday, in about 30 knots, we only got to 7 knots... All the best, Robert * OLX 2.1 TD * New mail not found. Start whine-pout sequence? (Y/n) * S2S Toronto, Ontario (416) 975-1547 --- WM v3.11/93-0359 * Origin: Ship to Shore, Vancouver,BC [604]540-9596 (1:153/7064.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 254 SAILING Ref: CDE00025 Date: 09/05/95 From: EDWIN AUTY Time: 01:26am \/To: FTP://RTFM.MOT.EDU/PUB/US (Read 7 times) Subj: fast Siren? 1/ 3 NOTE: This message was originally addressed to GEORGE SKINNER and was forwarded to you by LEE LESTER -------------------- -> tuesday evening and on a run and beam reach I had it up to 8 knots -> and between a 25-30 degree heel. On the reach she starts to become a -> little unstable at that angle of heel, possibly a reefed sail or -> using a smaller jib might have allowed me to maintain the 8 knots -> without heeling so much but I have noticed that anywhere from about -> 7-8 knots on h***George Are you sure your knotmeter is adjusted correctly? That's fast for the boat size! If it were my boat, I would not change the rigging. I would change boats and get a catamaran if speed is that important. Fair winds! Ed QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0348 * S2S Vancouver, British Columbia (604) 540-9596 --- WM v3.11/93-0359 * Origin: Ship to Shore, Vancouver,BC [604]540-9596 (1:153/7064.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 254 SAILING Ref: CDE00026 Date: 09/04/95 From: ROBERT RAYFIELD Time: 02:00pm \/To: MURRAY CLELAND (Read 7 times) Subj: fast Siren? 2/ 3 MC>RR==>centreboard, unleash my mighty Merc 4.5 and haul you off MC>RR==>Hey, what's this?! I only have a Mariner 4!!!!! MC>Hey, have I got a deal for you! :-) Actually, the motor that I covet is my neighbor's 2 hp. (Maybe it's a 2 1/2, he has a Martin 242 also) (I think that you are allowed to covet thy neighbor's motor ) It is soooo light that his transome goes up when he puts it onto the stern! I exagerat, but I think that it only weighs about 25 lbs. MC>I have a neighbour who has a Viking 31 and who might consider a trade. MC> There's no mast support in the middle of the cabin at least, but the MC>headroom is less... and I'd lose the ability to trailer and pull MC>bigger boats off shoals. It's faster though... Are you talking about a Viking 22, 28, or 33???? The 28 is a GREAT boat for the money (some good examples have sold for 10-11k). The 33 is fine, I have heard, and I suspect that the 22 is good. Certainly it will handle your passenger and strong wind. Keep us posted. R MC> * Live an E.P.I.C. Lifestyle - Enthusiastic, Positive, In Control :=) MC>--- MC> * RoseReader 2.50b P007867 Entered at [ENCODE ONLINE] MC>--- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0313 MC> * Origin: Encode Online Orillia,Ont.705-327-7629 (1:252/305) MC> * S2S Vancouver, British Columbia (604) 540-9596 * OLX 2.1 TD * This tagline needs help badly. I just isn't funny. * S2S Toronto, Ontario (416) 975-1547 --- WM v3.11/93-0359 * Origin: Ship to Shore, Vancouver,BC [604]540-9596 (1:153/7064.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 254 SAILING Ref: CDE00027 Date: 09/04/95 From: ROBERT RAYFIELD Time: 01:05pm \/To: PHIL GILLHAM (Read 7 times) Subj: Hello! PG>So, the other day I ran across an ad in a local classified re: a 30' PG>Tri, of mid 70's vintage and to my own amazement, realize that the boat PG>is easily within my reach financially. The owner says the boat is in PG>real good condition, and "ready to go" for at least day/weekend cruises. PG>And when I informed him of my lack of any real experience, stated he PG>would be happy to instruct me in learning to handle the boat until such PG>time as I feel secure enough to go it alone. PG>I compare to, for instance, just because you can fly a Cessna 150, PG>doesn't mean you could handle a Learjet, or just because you drive your PG>little Toyota lane-switcher real well, doesn't mean you could get an 18 PG>Wheeler out of the truckstop lot, let alone across country.. Hi, Phil, I am not the guy who owned a tri; I have only ever owned 1/3 of a tri . A couple of points I would like to make.... First, make sure that the boat is EASILY affordable for you. A boat always costs more than you expect and you're in this for fun. It is not fun if your boat is causing finacial strain! Very often one's first boat is a mistake. After a couple of years you will have learned what you want and need and you will want to change boats. This will be easier if you have not be pushed financially by the first boat. Second, sailing a big tri is much closer to sailing a small cat than your example of flying a Learjet as opposed to a Cessna 150. On both boats if you let go of the sheets, you stop. If you have way too much sail up in too much wind, you dump. The major difference is cost. If you shred a jib on an 18 footer, you are out a few hundred bucks. If you shredd a jib on a 30 footer, you are out a few thousand bucks. The difference in sailing skill is quite like your comparison between the Toyota and the 18 wheeler. However, I would argue that you COULD drive an 18 wheeler across the country if you could drive a standard transmission Toyota across the country. You might be clumsy and get in the way of the other traffic occasionally, you might have a tough time parking, but, if you were careful you coiuld do it without harming yourself or anybody else. The time that you will notice the biggest difference between a big boat and a little boat is when you are docking. Third, find a surveyer who is familiar with they type of boat that you are buying. Do not look through rose-coloured glasses!!!!!! Trust your surveyer!!!!!!! But, go ahead and buy it. You'll get help from lots of people, generally sailors are friendly and helpful. You should take sailing lessons at a local club. What you learn in dinghies is directly applicable to tris. And, besides, you only live once! Good luck, Robert Rayfield - TS&CC - Toronto * OLX 2.1 TD * This tagline needs help badly. * S2S Toronto, Ontario (416) 975-1547 --- WM v3.11/93-0359 * Origin: Ship to Shore, Vancouver,BC [604]540-9596 (1:153/7064.0)