--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 254 SAILING Ref: CCV00009 Date: 08/25/95 From: LEE LESTER Time: 01:56am \/To: STRUTHER MACFARLANE (Read 8 times) Subj: Tariffs & Stuff SMacF> I'm not sure that Canadian Customs would (could?) allow an SMacF> opportunity to pass up where they'd be able to collect money... SMacF> so the idea of a Canadian boat (like a CS or C&C) coming "back" SMacF> to Canada from the States?... dunno, but they'd probably tax it SMacF> as an American boat - and I know the duty we pay on incoming SMacF> vessels is more than 1 1/2 - 2 percent! I bought a CS in the US some years ago. Bringing it back to Canada was not that much trouble. Even the paperwork was not that onerous. Canada Customs was very helpful apart from the lady in charge at the customs depot. She could not get it through her head that the CS was a Canadian boat built only a few kilometres from where she worked. "But it's being imported," she kept repeating. My wife and I had had an enormous amount of trouble having her repeatedly overruled by her head office. Eventually she gave in but, when the boat arrived, subjected it to a full-scale search and kept us waiting an inordinate amount of time, several hours, in fact. I think she was miffed at being overruled and was getting her own back. I would certainly do it again depsite that experience. I think the lady was trying to prove something and the way her staff rolled their eyes as she did her thing made me sorry indeed for them. Just unfortunate, they and I drew her, I guess. * S2S Toronto, Ontario (416) 975-1547 --- WM v3.11/93-0359 * Origin: Ship to Shore, Vancouver,BC [604]540-9596 (1:153/7064.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 254 SAILING Ref: CCY00000 Date: 08/17/95 From: PAT POST Time: 08:11am \/To: ANGELA BOUDREAU (Read 8 times) Subj: Port Credit Boat Show Angela; When you're in Toronto for the CNE you might want to visit the In The Water Boat Show at the Port Credit Municipal Harbour. There is no charge for admission and they display both used and new boats. You might find it informative. You can drive west along Lakeshore to get to the harbour. Pat Nepean Sailing Club Nepean, Ontario "Camelot I" Maximus 2.02 --- FidoPCB v1.5 beta-'j' * Origin: Synapse BBS - Gatineau, Quebec - (1:163/230) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 254 SAILING Ref: CCY00001 Date: 08/26/95 From: MIKE KASPER Time: 11:47am \/To: STRUTHER MACFARLANE (Read 8 times) Subj: Sailing..... Hello Struther, Thanks for the info, Struther. Nice to talk to someone from Ontario, from all the over here in Washington :). Cheers, -Mike ... Kids: They're not sleeping, they're recharging! --- GoldED/2 2.50.A0715+ * Origin: The Owl Sanctuary 360-837-1803 V34+ Washougal, WA. (1:105/183) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 254 SAILING Ref: CCY00002 Date: 08/26/95 From: MURRAY CLELAND Time: 09:08am \/To: ROBERT RAYFIELD (Read 8 times) Subj: fast Siren? 1/ 3 Hello again, Robert. RR==>I guess that I am in a mood to get flamed, so here I go. Well then, consider yourself flamed! RR==>I have never sailed on a Siren, I have never even looked closely at RR==>one. However, I believe that your Siren is a little, about 17-19 foot, RR==>"mini-putterer-around" that is more comfortable than a pipe in Rwanda. Little indeed! It's at least 17 and a HALF feet, at that's at the waterline - when you go higher, it gets even longer! And, for your information, it sleeps two consenting adults in intimate comfort --- er ah, it would be intimate if it weren't for the mast support that comes between you --- and, come to think of it, it would be comfort, if there was enough room on the "bunks" to roll over.... What's a pipe in Rwanda got to do with this? "Mini-putterer-around" ! The nerve of some people's kids! This is my yacht that we're speaking of here! Have you no manners, no respect!! RR==>Do you have a stubby keel? Not when I'm excit.... Hey, what's that got to do with this RR==> I mean, "Does your Siren have a stubby RR==>keel?" Keel ???? RR==>To be tactful, I would say that you cannot expect your boat to go RR==>faster than it does. The speed of a displacement monohull sailboat is RR==>limited by "hull speed" which is, in knots, about 1.34 times the squre RR==>root of the waterline length in feet. Not on my monohull windsurfer though.... That gives my Siren a hull speed of about 5.6 knots. Knots??? What are they in MPH? RR==> On a close reach, most boats will RR==>reach hull speed in about five knots of wind unless they are RR==>undersailed, or have a poor hull/keel shape, or are too heavy. You are RR==>probably striking 2 1/2 out of three here, though it may sail better RR==>than a Rwandan pipe. (I guess that I lost my tactfulness back there! RR==>) Sure did.... Cut me to the quick ;-} RR==>You cannot change hull/keel shape or the weight of your boat. Any RR==>increase in sail area will improve the speed, but only in light wind. RR==>And, they will be expensive because you will have to buy new sails. I was thinking of asking Sobstab to modify the sails... RR==>Further, your rigging and hardware is not likely to be up to any major RR==>increases in power. You're sure a ray of sunshine on my ideas... RR==>Look at other boats. There are many, many, MANY, better boats on the RR==>market. I think that one, lower case "many" would have adequately made your point adequately! RR==> By better I mean: RR==>Boats that sail well in both light and strong wind, boats that can RR==>point. Boats that are strong, fast(er) and easy to sail. RR==>What type of sailing do you do? RR==>Do you putter around by yourself or another adult during the day? There you go with those intimate questions again. ;-) RR==>might look at a Wayfarer, a well built 16' dinghy with a fair bit of RR==>stability and enough sail area to go nicely. ($1500 to $3000 with RR==>trailer) How about a CL-14 or 16 ? RR==>Do you "camp out" on the boat? About once a year for a short period. If I was smart and had the type of boat you suggest next, I could go for a month or two in the summer. A month or two sleeping in the Siren, would end in divorce - assuming that my wife was with me on the trip in the first place. Continued in next message. * Live an E.P.I.C. Lifestyle - Enthusiastic, Positive, In Control :=) --- RoseReader 2.50 P007867 Entered at [ENCODE ONLINE] --- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0313 * Origin: Encode Online Orillia,Ont.705-327-7629 (1:252/305) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 254 SAILING Ref: CCY00003 Date: 08/26/95 From: MURRAY CLELAND Time: 09:08am \/To: ROBERT RAYFIELD (Read 8 times) Subj: fast Siren? 2/ 3 Continued from previous message. RR==> You might look at a CS22 or a Shark RR==>(24). Both are exellent "pocket cruisers" (Both $4000 to $7000 RR==>depending on age and condition and there are many in Southern Ontario. Hey, $4,000 doesn't sound too far out of reach. You didn't mention a Tanzer 22. One of the three other boats on our Georgian Bay outing was a Tanzer. It seemed to have a lot of room, for its size - particularly if you are very short - and it seemed to sail well also. RR==>Do you just want a little speed? Go for a used cat, the longer and RR==>lighter the better. (Cats are a bit of a pain in light wind and shifty RR==>wind, though. Sailed my windsurfer over and offered to assist a couple of fellas who tried to turtle their Hobie 16 (not once but twice) in our bay. Fortunately for them, I suppose, the water wasn't deep enough for a full turtle - mast stuck in the bottom and kept them up on about a 90 degree angle... most undignified :-) RR==> What are the winds like where you sail?) Lake Simcoe...near Orillia... more often than not, relatively light and somewhat changeable. RR==>Prices are very low on the used boat market now. While it is a poor RR==>time to sell, it is a good time to buy. So, if you are moving up, even RR==>if you get a poor price for your boat, the difference will be low. I'll consult with my wife and my banker. BTW - Did I ever tell you about my real estate investments in Alberta.... As my wife mentions, in her occasional uncharitable moments, we could have bought a boat big enough to sail to Bermuda, with the money we lost in that venture...:-(( Chances, at this time, of putting much more than the value of the Siren into a new boat, are slim. I did see an 18 ft. Catamaran advertised for $2,800 and figure that I might be able to get that and maybe a little more for my Siren...despite your bad mouthing it ;-) Just to praise my Siren, a touch, while at Beausoleil Island, it was rather nice to be able to motor gently to the shore and step out with our supplies etc, while all of the bigger sailboats, had to anchor offshore and use their second boats (some not too much smaller than my Siren), to get to shore. I also had the pleasure of taking friends from the bigger boats "gunkholing" (exploring all of the nooks and crannies along the shoreline) up the island - a feat that they dare not do in their larger craft. And furthermore (he snarled, warming to the argument) I can quickly and easily trailer my boat to whatever body of water I want and have it rigged and ready to sail within 10 to 15 minutes... no more waiting over three hours at the Marine Railway for this Siren sailor..... ;-> OK OK, so I bobbed around a touch more than the bigger boats, and so I didn't go quite as fast, and what if I wasn't quite as comfortable... When I ran aground, which I did with casual abandon, I just had to turn the crank and I was on my way again. Even had the pleasure of towing one of the bigger boats out of some shallow water when it ran aground! If you're ever stuck, give me a call, I'll crank up the centreboard, unleash my mighty Merc 4.5 and haul you off RR==>Why don't you tap about the sailing that you want to do (and how much RR==>you want to spend). The people here will come up with 50 good boats for RR==>you to choose from! Actually, I really enjoy windsurfing. So some of my craving for speed is satiated by getting out on my Ultracat and "gunning down" sailboats.... especially of people who badmouth my somewhat leisurely paced Siren ;-) Any replacement for the Siren would have to come almost entirely from the sale of said Siren - - about $3000 to $3500. That doesn't open the door to a lot of Tanzers or CS22s. I live on Simcoe, in Orillia, and believe that a Cat would satisfy some of my craving for a fast boat, but, of course that would rule out the annual "yachting excursion" that I currently take in the Siren. Guess I could strap on a tent and camp on shore... couldn't be much more uncomfortable, and it wouldn't rock .. might miss the later though. Also would love something like a Tanzer 22 but not enough to rile the wife and banker. Continued in next message. * Live an E.P.I.C. Lifestyle - Enthusiastic, Positive, In Control :=) --- RoseReader 2.50 P007867 Entered at [ENCODE ONLINE] --- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0313 * Origin: Encode Online Orillia,Ont.705-327-7629 (1:252/305) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 254 SAILING Ref: CCY00004 Date: 08/26/95 From: MURRAY CLELAND Time: 09:08am \/To: ROBERT RAYFIELD (Read 8 times) Subj: fast Siren? 3/ 3 Continued from previous message. Thanks, Robert, for your suggestions... A touch crochety, but informative and useful none the less. Much appreciated...Just watch those "mini-putterer" comments, ok. Talk to you later. Murray * Live an E.P.I.C. Lifestyle - Enthusiastic, Positive, In Control :=) --- RoseReader 2.50 P007867 Entered at [ENCODE ONLINE] --- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0313 * Origin: Encode Online Orillia,Ont.705-327-7629 (1:252/305) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 254 SAILING Ref: CCY00005 Date: 08/26/95 From: MURRAY CLELAND Time: 09:08am \/To: STRUTHER MACFARLANE (Read 8 times) Subj: Distances Hello Struther. SM==>Watch that, fella!... you're not allowed to state distances in SM==>"MILES"... this is Canada, eh? Oh the shame of it! Sorry about that. Didn't mean to slight queen and country... BTW is the queen using metric now? SM==> You've got to use KILOMETRES; SM==>unless, of course, you were using the marine equivalent all along SM==>and giving the distance in NM - in which case I apologise ! That's it! That must be what I was doing. I accept your apology! Just try not to jump to conclusions again, ok ;-) The only other excuse I could have is that I'm old and don't adopt well to change... Naw, that couldn't be the case Murray * Live an E.P.I.C. Lifestyle - Enthusiastic, Positive, In Control :=) --- RoseReader 2.50 P007867 Entered at [ENCODE ONLINE] --- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0313 * Origin: Encode Online Orillia,Ont.705-327-7629 (1:252/305) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 254 SAILING Ref: CCY00006 Date: 08/26/95 From: MURRAY CLELAND Time: 09:08am \/To: DAN CEPPA (Read 8 times) Subj: Thunderstorms G'day Dan. DC==>The sail on the bay in 40+ knots ws like that... However, I DC==>guess I'm fortunate, as there are few thunderstorms in this DC==>area. Not that the wind doesn't get nasty, as there have been DC==>60+ around here when some fronts move through! Don't want to sound like a dull person, but I think I'd rather stay home under those conditions - well, maybe with a tiny windsurfer sail... Naw, definitely stay home... :-) DC==>Well, as you do a good job of battening the hatches, it can DC==>be rather neat, I suppose. Since there wasn't a lot else to do, guess I had to make the best of what I had. DC==> MC> There must be ways to make the DC==> MC> Siren's windows open. DC==>Have you ever considered a hammer? Though, I think, that would DC==>get expensive after a while.... Yes to both... but then the swinging at anchor wouldn't be as dry anymore. :-) TTYL Dan. Murray * Live an E.P.I.C. Lifestyle - Enthusiastic, Positive, In Control :=) --- RoseReader 2.50 P007867 Entered at [ENCODE ONLINE] --- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0313 * Origin: Encode Online Orillia,Ont.705-327-7629 (1:252/305) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 254 SAILING Ref: CCY00007 Date: 08/26/95 From: MIKE NEVERDOSKY Time: 09:47am \/To: JOY CLINTON (Read 8 times) Subj: Dinghy On (24 Aug 95) Joy Clinton wrote to All... JC> Does anyone have any comments on dinghys ? YES! JC> Rubber Zodiac versus the traditional hard type. The inflatable has great stability, carries a good load and acts as its own fender. You really need a motor on an inflatable to get any reasonable performance. Hard dinks row and sail FAR BETTER than any inflatable, need fenders, are harder to stow and are much prettier. JC> What about towing ? Towing is OK in protected waters but is not a good idea at sea. JC> What about size ? Depends on how much you need to move around. When I lived on my trimaran, I used a 10' Portaboat. This is a folding, plastic, semirigid boat. I could handle two people and baggage (groceries or?) with ease. I could row into a wind with or without a load. JC> Horsepower ? Three horsepower would push my 10' as fast as it wanted to go. JC> I have a 27 foot sailboat and there is two people. Will you be living on the hook, using the dink as a car every day? JC> Is there basic differences between rubber dinghys ? YES! Especially with two people, I reccomend having both a rigid and an inflatable. You can choose the best boat for any given job and if you want to both go different places at the same time, you have the boats to do it. Example; The inflatable is a much better platform for swiming or diving. There is a lot more to it and I'm sure you will get lots of mail on this one. mike ... Programming, the art of creating bugs that look like FEATURES --- PPoint 1.92 * Origin: N6CHV, Mike's Point Orlando, FL (1:363/187.2) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 254 SAILING Ref: CCY00008 Date: 08/25/95 From: ROBERT SMINKEY Time: 04:22pm \/To: JOY CLINTON (Read 8 times) Subj: Dinghy Joy, I owned a 26-foot Seafarer sloop for 3 years...and cruised extensively in her; then, "upgraded" to a 36-foot Cape Dory cutter- rigged sloop...which I have owned for the past 16 years. I lived aboard the Cape Dory for 10 1/2 years and cruised up and down the U.S. east coast in her while using her as my domicile. Accordingly, I believe I can intelligently address the pros and cons of dinghy ownership by sailboat owners and cruisers...as I perceive them. First off: One must have a dinghy if one is going to cruise in a sailboat. There are many encountered situations where one must anchor out...yet, must get into the beach for one reason or another. The further north one operates along the east coast of the United States, the more one encounters this situation...especially in New England. If one picks up a mooring at a yacht club, tender service is usually included in the daily mooring fee. If not, private tenders are sometimes operated by enterprising individuals at the more popular cruising areas. But, If tender service is not available, and you have to get ashore, and you are at a buoy or in an anchorage, then you are on your own to get yourself ashore. This situation occurs many times. Second: What type of dinghy should you have? You should have a seaworthy and safe dinghy; it should be as small as you can get away with; it should be an inflatable; and it should stow in a container below decks or in a locker. You want nothing that has to be towed or stowed topside on the coachroof...upside down. It is dangerous to have ANY equipment stowed topside on a cruising sailboat...especially a dinghy. That situation increases windage, makes moving around topside more difficult than it normally is, looks awful, can hurt people if it breaks loose, and is difficult to launch and recover. Towing a dinghy is a big pain, affects sailing performance, looks awful, can hurt you or your boat badly in severe weather, and, sooner or later, wraps its towing line around your propeller shaft. A sailboat towing a dinghy has a great time backing into a slip, and, once in, mooring the dinghy so it does not bump you or a neighboring boat in an adjacent slip. Most marinas do not let visiting dinghy owners place their tenders on the pier...so you are stuck with it, alongside or topside. Third: Most fiberglass sailboat dinghies are unsafe. They are too small and have too little freeboard to safely transport people in an open body of water...unless it's a millpond. The biggest danger is usually the powerboat racing by...close aboard. Many tenders have been swamped by those types...and lives have been lost. Fiberglass dinghies are heavy, most are ugly, and they can sure do a number on your fiberglass sailboat if they bash it while being towed in a following sea, or rub on the hull all night long when moored close alongside. Fourth: Your inflatable dinghy should be of high quality, should be propelled by oars only (so you don't have to: mess around with powerboat licensing requirements; carry, stow, and rig an outboard motor...they are heavy; carry gasoline), should not have a stiff or a hard bottom (makes rigging and unrigging a chore...and...you have the problem of stowing the hard bottom, too, if you have one), and should have at least one rigid seat. I found the Avon Redcrest to be my "perfect" dinghy. It is of top quality constuction; stows in a small duffle bag; inflates and deflates easily; is very seaworthy; rows surprisingly easy; transports 2 with no problem, four with a little juggling, and 6 if you have to (in calm water); and has not failed in any respect during the 19 years that I have owned it. AND, the big thing: it is out of sight and out of mind when it is not being used...which is the vast majority of time. It stows very nicely in my sail locker in the port side of the cockpit. On my Seafarer 26, the Avon Redcrest inflatable dinghy stowed under the V-berths - forward. These are my thoughts based on my experiences. I am a Navyman... so that background is affecting these recommendations, too. -- Bob -- --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: Hafa Adai Exchange, Great Mills MD 301-994-9460/62 (1:2612/114.0)