--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F4B00004 Date: 04/06/98 From: MARK LOGSDON Time: 11:28am \/To: RON TAYLOR (Read 0 times) Subj: MC fuel tank RT> This weekend a buddy suggested filling the tank with water and freezing RT> it. Theoretically, when the water expands, it will force the dent out. RT> Sounds plausible, simple, painless, and by far the easiest. The advantage with air pressure is that you have some control over the pressure. I'm afraid with the water freezing, the pressure won't be as easy to control. With water freezing, you might get some additional deformation in other places that is not desired. --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0232 * Origin: IBMNet Connection - Indpls, IN - 317-882-5575 28.8 USR (1:231/1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F4B00005 Date: 04/06/98 From: MARK LOGSDON Time: 11:28am \/To: ROY J. TELLASON (Read 0 times) Subj: Timing belt lifespan? RJ> RM> Carried the battery 3 blocks to the Ford dealership (closest RJ> RM> place) who informed me that it had an internal short and was RJ> RM> scrap. RJ> RJ> Internal short? I've seen shorted cells, but that's real uncommon RJ> these days. Much more common is a simple bad connection inside the RJ> battery that opens up. I've seen it also become much more common in RJ> later model stuff that uses more of the low-profile battery styles. What does it mean when you have a nominally 12.6 volt battery that only charges to 10.5 volts? Is that simply a degraded cell but with no short circuit? It seems that effectively it is a short circuit. --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0232 * Origin: IBMNet Connection - Indpls, IN - 317-882-5575 28.8 USR (1:231/1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F4B00006 Date: 04/06/98 From: MARK LOGSDON Time: 11:52am \/To: JASON WEDEHASE (Read 0 times) Subj: MC fuel tank JW> RT> This weekend a buddy suggested filling the tank with water and JW> RT> freezing it. Theoretically, when the water expands, it will force JW> the RT> dent out. Sounds plausible, simple, painless, and by far the JW> easiest. JW> Eek!! I would stay away from that. It doesn't expand THAT JW> much, and it'd be highly unlikely that it would actually freeze in the JW> right spot. Water isn't that intelligent. If the tank is full, then it should freeze uniformly. The real problem is that the expansion of the water (which by the way, actually is greatest before it freezes at 4C or 39F) will result in a somewhat unpredictable effect. With air pressure at least there is some control. I think some of us (me included) were worried that there would be too much expansion with water freezing, but that worry is probably misplaced. If you use water at 25C (room temperature) as a baseline, then the greatest expansion is at 4C which is only an increase in density of 0.3%. In other words, the volume of the tank increases by a factor of 3/10 of a percent. That's not much, but is it sufficient or too much? No matter the answer, the point is that it's not very practical to control the amount of expansion. Furthermore, the fact that the expansion is greatest at 4C (39F) means that the water will decrease in density (volume) as the water freezes at 0C (32F). So any dent that might have popped out at 4C might have reappeared at freezing. --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0232 * Origin: IBMNet Connection - Indpls, IN - 317-882-5575 28.8 USR (1:231/1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F4B00007 Date: 04/05/98 From: GREG KURTH Time: 07:34am \/To: ROB MCCART (Read 0 times) Subj: AUTO QUESTIONS RM>RT#It is the 350 so must be 5.7 or 5.8. You'd think a man with Chevy 350 = 5.7 Ford 351 = 5.8 . --- SLMR 2.0 #1330 99% of all lawyers give the rest a bad name. --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Telnet toltbbs.com or call 313-854-6001, Boardwatch #55 (1:234/2) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F4B00008 Date: 04/05/98 From: JAN DEBOER Time: 02:06pm \/To: ROB MCCART (Read 0 times) Subj: Engineering??????? On 27 Mar 98 02:07:00 Rob Mccart wrote to Jan Deboer... RM> Ha... I'm reminded of the early 70's when the labour RM> charge to change the spark plugs on an AMC Gremlin X RM> V-8 was 4.5 hours. RM> Seems you had to lift the engine first to get at the RM> back plugs. RM> Some whiz later discovered that you could cut a small RM> hole in the inner fender and just remove the wheel to RM> get at it with the right tools - but for a while there, RM> there were a lot of Gremlins that had never had their RM> rear plugs changed. Didn't the Chev Monza with a V-6 have the same sort of problem - IIRC you had to loosen the rear engine mount and jack up the engine to do the back plugs! How does stuff like that ever make it to the marketing stage?? Aren't the rear plugs on the Chrysler minivan just as bad? Oh for the days of my GMC six-banger inline. You could clamber in there and stand beside the engine to work on it! --- Everything/2 * Origin: Tiny's BBS - Inet: tinys.oix.com / On,Canada (1:229/600) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F4B00009 Date: 04/05/98 From: JAN DEBOER Time: 02:16pm \/To: JOHN PUMMILL (Read 0 times) Subj: Sprint Engine On 03 Apr 98 07:30:00 John Pummill wrote to Jan Deboer... JP> Are any of those made by a main line GM company or JP> parented out ?? :) Most lines today have the good and JP> the very, very bad. Well it's a joint venture between Suzuki and GM at the Alliston, Ontario plant. You have to wonder how those two could even manage to design and build a bad engine! --- Everything/2 * Origin: Tiny's BBS - Inet: tinys.oix.com / On,Canada (1:229/600) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F4B00010 Date: 04/05/98 From: JAN DEBOER Time: 02:18pm \/To: JOHN PUMMILL (Read 0 times) Subj: Sprint Engine On 03 Apr 98 07:30:00 John Pummill wrote to Jan Deboer... JD> Lots of Fireflys, Metros, and Sprints buzzing around here, JD> yet no JD> aftermarket parts support. Surprising. JP> Market group, very few do it yourselfers. Odd, seeing that they are entry level cars, at the very bottom of the new car market. You'd expect simple economics would force many owners to be do-it-yourselfers! --- Everything/2 * Origin: Tiny's BBS - Inet: tinys.oix.com / On,Canada (1:229/600) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F4B00011 Date: 04/06/98 From: ROY J. TELLASON Time: 07:42pm \/To: MARK LOGSDON (Read 0 times) Subj: Timing belt lifespan? Mark Logsdon wrote in a message to Roy J. Tellason: RJ> RM> Carried the battery 3 blocks to the Ford dealership (closest RJ> RM> place) who informed me that it had an internal short and was RJ> RM> scrap. RJ> RJ> Internal short? I've seen shorted cells, but that's real uncommon RJ> these days. Much more common is a simple bad connection inside the RJ> battery that opens up. I've seen it also become much more common in RJ> later model stuff that uses more of the low-profile battery styles. ML> What does it mean when you have a nominally 12.6 volt battery ML> that only charges to 10.5 volts? Is that simply a degraded ML> cell but with no short circuit? It seems that effectively it ML> is a short circuit. That one sure sounds like a shorted cell to me... Though the only way I'd be sure of that would be with a hydrometer. There have been many times I've seen really odd behavior with bad connections, high internal resistance, etc. in batteries. email: roy.j.tellason%tanstaaf@frackit.com --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-432-0764 (1:270/615) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F4B00012 Date: 04/07/98 From: JOHN FAERBER Time: 12:38am \/To: JAN DEBOER (Read 0 times) Subj: Engineering??????? JD> Didn't the Chev Monza with a V-6 have the same sort of problem - IIRC JD> you had to loosen the rear engine mount and jack up the engine to do the JD> back plugs! How does stuff like that ever make it to the marketing JD> stage?? Aren't the rear plugs on the Chrysler minivan just as bad? JD> Oh for the days of my GMC six-banger inline. You could clamber in there JD> and stand beside the engine to work on it! No wonder there is so much interest in my 84 Maxima (6 inline rear wheel drive) All the plugs are accessible with no obstructions, along with the oil filter, and the starter motor. TONS of room to get at most anything under the hood! --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: * MacSavvy OS/2 BBS * Dallas, Texas * 972-250-4479 * (1:124/1208) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F4C00000 Date: 04/06/98 From: RON TAYLOR Time: 09:48am \/To: DON DELLMANN (Read 0 times) Subj: MC fuel tank DD>While tripping merrily through the mail, Ron Taylor was overheard DD> RT> This weekend a buddy suggested filling the tank with water and > RT> freezing it. Theoretically, when the water expands, it will force he > RT> dent out. Sounds plausible, simple, painless, and by far the easiest. DD> RT> The only danger I see is the possibility of the tank bulging in the > RT> wrong place. What are your thoughts?? Pro or con... DD>I'm afraid if you use the "freezing" approach, you'll probably burst the >tank at a seam. I've heard this enough to discourage me from using the freeze. I like the idea of welding a T-handle to the dent and pulling it out. Now why didn't I think of that??? Thanks, Ron --- * QMPro 1.02 42-7029 * I'll show you my tagline if you'll show me yours. --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: Crime Bytes (1:135/5.0)