--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1F00010 Date: 01/10/98 From: MARK LOGSDON Time: 01:03pm \/To: ROY J. TELLASON (Read 0 times) Subj: Vehicle Confiscation RJ> both about the fact that notaries are getting sucked into playing a RJ> regulatory role (just like inspection mechanics did) but also about the RJ> unfairness of it all, with how the notary was the one charged with The notaries are becoming tax collectors. :( --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0232 * Origin: IBMNet Connection - Indpls, IN - 317-882-5575 28.8 USR (1:231/1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1F00011 Date: 01/10/98 From: JOHN FAERBER Time: 02:09pm \/To: BILL MITCHELL (Read 0 times) Subj: Vehicle Confiscation BM> full market value. The problem does arise, though, BM> because the slaes tax regulations which apply to car BM> sales are worded so that the sales tax is supposed to BM> be computed on the full, fair market retail value. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Where do they come up with this figure? Out of some kind of a book, I would guess. Correct me if I'm wrong, but (as I remember from my high school economics class many years ago) fair market value is what a willing buyer will pay a willing seller based on the condition of the item to be sold, be it a car or any other item. Sounds as if the poiticians do not understand this concept!!! (or they DON'T want to understand it to get themselves more tax $$$) BM> One thing that does stink here in Jersey is if you BM> traded cars with somebody each of you owe full sales BM> tax on the retail value of the vehicle you wind up In Texas, it is a (I think) $20 even trade tax. BM> with. But, if you buy a vehicle from a dealer, and BM> trade in a vehicle as part of the purchase price, you BM> only pay sales tax on the difference between what they BM> give you for the trade in and the full price of the Same thing here in Texas. --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: * MacSavvy OS/2 BBS * Dallas, Texas * 972-250-4479 * (1:124/1208) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1F00012 Date: 01/10/98 From: JOHN FAERBER Time: 02:19pm \/To: ALAN MORRISON (Read 0 times) Subj: Monza diagnosis AM> In 1975 when the Monza was introduced they were going to use the new 262 AM> V8, but it would not meet California smog requirements. So in 1975 nly, AM> the CA Monza's got the 350 engine, which bolts in to the same mounts, etc. OK, this clears it up as I did not know this until now. Thanks! --- Maximus/2 3.01 * Origin: * MacSavvy OS/2 BBS * Dallas, Texas * 972-250-4479 * (1:124/1208) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1F00013 Date: 01/09/98 From: MARC GERGES Time: 07:52am \/To: ALAN MORRISON (Read 0 times) Subj: Active Handling Salut Alan! MG>> Salut Alan! AM> This is sometimes used as a toast here (before a drink). I'll respond AM> with Cheers Marc! Mmmh... except for those 400000 Luxemburgers, everybody misunderstands me :-) I'm thinking of changing it... 'Salut' is in luxemburgish used as 'hello'. And as 'Goodbye', btw. But 'cheers' is fine too :) MG>> Yes, but most european countries insist on the big plates. MG>> Luxembourg as one of few has rear plates in the conventional MG>> design but narrower front plates. AM> They designed the latest Corvette with export in mind so it would AM> have minimal changes. I think they dropped the ball here, as the pad AM> where the plate sits could have been designed a bit wider. Right... but I don't really think export to europe will be very important for the Corvette. Vettes never sold good here, partly due to their image. A couple of years ago they were one of the preferred cars of brothel owners and the like, and this image is still in people's minds... although those people drive Mercedes' today :) AM>> On the rear, however, a slight improvement for export is two AM>> reflective strips on either side, which helps make the tail look AM>> smaller. MG>> Mmmmh... didn't know they are not on the us model... I have to MG>> admit I don't like them... they look very 'aftermarket'. AM> After looking at them again, I agree they look aftermarket. I hope AM> they put a thin wide reflective strip on all models, as long as it AM> looks to be designed in. We'll see what the first face lift brings... AM>> I noticed that a Ford Escort in the UK is nicer and cheaper than AM>> an Escort in the US. MG>> It is a different car, isn't it? AM> Yes, the US Escorts are often basic transportation. The European AM> ones I saw were nicer looking with more options even though they were AM> cheaper after checking the exchange rates. Mmmmh... the Escort is not basic transportation here. It's not exactly upmarket, but Ford's basic transportation is the Ka. MG>> I sometimes buy myself a copy of Car & Driver, but very seldom as MG>> it's difficult to obtain here, but haven't found an escort in MG>> there. AM> There may be specifications from road tests in the back. All issues AM> of C&D (and Motor Trend) have the results of road tests in each AM> issue. I'll check that. AM> Also you can go to the C&D website at: www.caranddriver.com If the internet weren't that expensive here... :( MG>> Imho you can't really compare the prices - it starts with cars MG>> that are in some european countries 20 or 30% cheaper than in MG>> other european countries. There's also the dollar exchange: being MG>> at DM 3,50 in the late eighties, it was 1,50 in the mid-nineties MG>> and is not around 3,70-3,80. AM> We don't get many UK cars in the US anymore; a Jag every now and AM> then. They could import some of the UK Fords for less than what they AM> sell for here it seems. It may be a volume problem, more than a AM> price issue. I guess Ford prefers to sell their american made cars for higher prices, don't they? :) MG>> Besides it's not only the price of the car, it's also the running MG>> costs. From what I can read here, a V8 is not really expensive to MG>> run over there? Well, here it is. AM> If you put a lot of highway miles the V8's often meet the mileage of AM> many V6 cars. As an example, I noticed a HUGE Impala full size sedan AM> V8, that got the same highway mileage as a much smaller Honda Accord AM> wagon several years ago. The engines are quite efficient today, but a AM> lighter car can and usually does get better city mileage. The fuel AM> required to accelerate a heavier vehicle will invariably be more. The AM> fuel required to maintain highway speed on a high-torque V8 with AM> proper gearing, may be less than the complex multi-valve small AM> displacement engine that runs much more rpm. This probably only goes for quite low highway speeds. I'd like to know how much such an engine drinks at highway speeds of 80 or 100 mph. cu .\\arc ... Maybe the proof of God's sense of humor is the existence of atheists. --- * Origin: sympathy for the debil (2:270/47) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1F00014 Date: 01/09/98 From: MARC GERGES Time: 08:04am \/To: ALAN MORRISON (Read 0 times) Subj: Vector Auto Salut Alan! MG>> What exactly are the PSR cars? Engines like the Porsche 911 GT1, MG>> the McLaren F1 or completely different? AM> Two basic types with four different classes; WorldSportsCar, and GT AM> Series. [...] AM> GTS-1 features two-wheel drive, production-based cars using tube AM> frame construction with normally-aspirated engines between 3.5 and AM> 6.0 liters; normally-aspirated unibody cars up to 8.0 liters and AM> turbocharged unibody cars up to 4.0 liters. AM> Eligible cars include Oldsmobile Aurora, Porsche 911 Turbo, Callaway AM> C7R, Dodge Viper GTS-R That sounds comparable to the FIA GT cars. The Dodge Viper is running here too. AM> GTS-3 features two-wheel drive, production-based cars using tube frame AM> construction with engines between 2.0 and 3.8 liters; AM> normally-aspirated unibody cars up to 3.8 liters, turbocharged unibody AM> cars up to 3.0 liters (with a maximum of 4 cylinders) and the AM> turbocharged two-rotor Mazda RX-7. You still have the RX-7? Never been a real success here, imports have been discontinued a year ago. I always liked that car though... MG>> NASCAR are those huge street car lookalikes, right? AM> A formula derived from stock full-size and intermediate size passenger AM> cars in the 50's and 60's. Starting in the '70's they switched to AM> intermediate sized cars that sold with V8's. Since many of these now AM> have Front-Drive V6's, they abandoned the stock layout and continued AM> to race the Front-Engine, Rear Wheel Drive setup. I read an article about them in last week's ams (a german car magazine). Quite interesting, but not up to date from the technical point of view. AM>> Don Garlits was instrumental in the success of drag racing here AM>> since the 1950's, always preferring the Chrysler Hemi design AM>> which has not been dethroned by even OHC 4 valve setups. MG>> Did anybody on these machines experiment with 4 or more driven MG>> wheels instead of two? AM> Yes, in the 60's they experimented with this but weight transfer AM> unloads the front wheels and they just put smoke in your vision. Mmmmh... AWD in street cars is balanced the way all four wheels spin at the same time. MG>> completely different approaches, maybe jet engines... if the goal MG>> is nothing but best acceleration, two big wheels can't be MG>> everything... AM> Jets have nothing in common with passenger cars except maybe wheels. Goes for dragsters too :) MG>> I see Indycar races from time to time, simply because they are MG>> aired live in the evening here in europe. Except for the ovals, MG>> it's like F1. AM> Yes, very similar with slightly different rules, engine sizes, tires, AM> etc. Sure, but the basic points (open wheels, monocoques, spoilers front and rear) is the same. And if the tires are 12 or 14 '' large... I don't really mind :) AM> There has been a split in IndyCar Racing as of 1997. One still AM> runs small turbocharged V8's that wind past 12,000 RPM and cost a AM> fortune to keep abreast of the competition. The other runs normally AM> aspirated V8's with a 4 liter limit and a 10,500 RPM ceiling, which AM> keeps the cost down. A ha. In the same races? BTW: normally aspirated formula 1 engines hit the 17000 mark last season... cu .\\arc ... Reality: A fantasy that went dreadfully wrong. --- * Origin: sympathy for the debil (2:270/47) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1F00015 Date: 01/09/98 From: MARC GERGES Time: 08:11am \/To: KENNY HENDERSON (Read 0 times) Subj: Forced Induction Salut Kenny! MG>> The Northstar is known as quite a good engine here. The Oldsmobile MG>> isn't sold here. The Corvette's engine is appreciated here as being MG>> nice but old-fashioned. The typical euro V8 is an expensive engine, MG>> but with 4 valve heads, 4 cam shafts etc. KH> The LT1 is old fashioned, but running mid 13s with stock gears, a KH> cat-back exhaust, K&N air filter, and BFG Drag Radials (street legal) KH> with an automatic demands respect. Yes, but acceleration isn't everything. How about refinement, fuel saving c? cu .\\arc ... Assembler Command: RPM: Read Programmer's Mind --- * Origin: sympathy for the debil (2:270/47) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1F00016 Date: 01/09/98 From: MARC GERGES Time: 08:17am \/To: SIMON AVERY (Read 0 times) Subj: Escort Salut Simon! MG>> Mmmh... here in Luxembourg, Belgium and Germany it's not at the MG>> top of it's class, it's rather close to the bottom... the top (in MG>> price) right now being the Golf IV. SA> Really? VW are near the top here for the Golf, but the Polo is quite SA> low-priced. Hey, the Polo is in a lower class. And it's high-priced for its class too. SA> Nice car the Golf, my mother drives one. Went to test drive the new model with a friend yesterday... he wants to buy one. Although it's a well engineered car, I think there are better offers in that class... SA>>> BTW - just out of interest, I don't suppose the Ford Capri made SA>>> it over there? I run a '82 1600. "The Poor mans' Porshe" - SA>>> Ford's last successful Uk attempt at a sports car. They released SA>>> a 90's version, called the Probe, which sold very badly and was SA>>> recently withdrawn. MG>> The Probe was american as far as I know. SA> Possibly - though Ford do tend to make subtle changes for the SA> European market. (Steering wheel on a different side, manual gearbox SA> etc..) We have the steering wheel on the same place the americans have it. :-) MG>> Don't you have the Puma? It's on sale here for a couple of weeks MG>> and said to sell very well. SA> Yeah - the Puma was released early last year. We probably inherited SA> your advert too - Steve McQueen on the San Fransisco (?) yumps. Yes - a lovely TV spot. SA> The Puma, however, /is/ highly priced - around 14 - 15 thousand, SA> although every report I've seen does tend to suggest that "it's a bit SA> special" and is worth it. I reserve judgement until I get the SA> pleasure... I didn't drive it, but looked at it in the showroom... and it looks terribly nice. cu .\\arc ... To shoot a mime, do you use a silencer? --- * Origin: sympathy for the debil (2:270/47) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1F00017 Date: 01/09/98 From: MARC GERGES Time: 08:21am \/To: ALAN MORRISON (Read 0 times) Subj: Active Handling Salut Alan! AM>> I didn't do a point by point comparison, though. I noticed many AM>> Fords and saw the Cavalier name on Vauxhauls. Both were common ML>> There's supposed to be a "sporty" version of the Vaxhaul Cavalier ML>> that does about 150 mph. That's stock too. AM> I'm not up on these, but you see Vauxhauls and Opels running in some AM> European racing. They occasionally run with the BMWs and Mercedes in AM> the Touring car championships. I've seen the Opels closer to the AM> front than the Vauxhauls... The Vauxhall Cavalier and the Opel Vectra are exactly the same car, it's just the Opel sticker for continental europe and Vauxhall for the UK. AM> The Cadillac Catera is an Opel Omega AM> derivative. Right. Not sold in europe as Cadillac, though. cu .\\arc ... PREDICTION: You are reading a message right now. --- * Origin: sympathy for the debil (2:270/47) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1F00018 Date: 01/09/98 From: MARC GERGES Time: 08:23am \/To: ALAN MORRISON (Read 0 times) Subj: Escort Salut Alan! MG>> The Probe was american as far as I know. AM> The latest Probe was Ford's version of a Mazda MX6 with a 2.5 V6. AM> Before 1993 it was a Ford design with a 2.2 four or 3.0 V6. And we got both of them. MG>> Don't you have the Puma? It's on sale here for a couple of weeks MG>> and said to sell very well. AM> Not by that name here in the US although I believe it is the same as AM> the new Mercury Cougar which has a 2 liter DOHC four or a 2.5 liter AM> DOHC V6. It has fresh lines with an ellipse grille opening and is a AM> hatchback. No, that's not the Puma, it is what we will get in a couple of months as the Mondeo Coup (the Mondeo is the Contour). The Puma is smaller and uses an inline 4. It's not a terribly fast car, but looks great and is said to be a pleasure to drive. cu .\\arc ... AUDI : Accelerates Under Demonic Influence --- * Origin: sympathy for the debil (2:270/47) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1F00019 Date: 01/09/98 From: MARC GERGES Time: 08:25am \/To: ALAN MORRISON (Read 0 times) Subj: Forced Induction Salut Alan! MG>> The Eclipse is _more_ _expensive_ than the Firebird in the US? MG>> OK, that puts it in a new perspective. AM> The AWD Turbo version is about $3,000-$4000 higher than the F-bodies. Oh... MG>> That's why I prefer test times taken at a road course instead of MG>> just measuring various values you can't really put into relation. AM> That is preferable, but not without problems. They would have to AM> test at the same track every time, which may not always be available. AM> Also one track might favor smaller cars, another may give high AM> horsepower an unfair advantage. Right. For the track questions, I know of all race tracks around here that they can be used for such tests... you have to pay it on a per day basis and can drive whatever you want on it. AM> The standardized test for pure grip here is a 300 foot diameter AM> skidpad. An average of 2 runs in opposite directions, measured in G's AM> (gravity). Quite irrelevant imho. The real problem in daily driving is the bumps, the alternating bends etc. That number says nothing about how fast, sure and easily controllable a car is on the road. AM> Also typical is a 600 foot slalom course (which favors AM> smaller cars). I would prefer a road course to either of these, but AM> the reporting entity would need their own facility for comparison on AM> more than a few models at a time. Slalom is fine, it gives the suspension parts work. AM>> If it costs more, why prefer it when it can't stay ahead of the AM>> V8 car on a twisty road? Not all V8 cars are huge beasts with AM>> 600 pound engines. A typical F-body has a V8 with aluminum heads, AM>> and weighs about the same as a Turbocharged AWD Eclipse. MG>> But when the Eclipse is AWD (not sold here) and the F-body has a MG>> live rear axle... mmmh... :) AM> It is a strong unit for acceleration that gives pretty good handling. AM> On a bumpy surface it may be less responsive than an independent rear AM> as it has more unsprung weight. Still, those that think it won't AM> handle as well as some smaller cars with IRS are often surprised. The AM> smaller Eclipse gets slalom numbers within a MPH of the F-bodies AM> (Camaro's & Firebirds). The F-bodies typically beat the Eclipse on AM> the skidpad. Mmmh... I never drove a live axle car really hard. But when I compare my IRS car to a Golf that has non-independent rear suspension (although it isn't a live axle), I feel a difference. Especially when braking in curves - that make the Golf quite nervous. AM> Yes, the ZR-1 Corvette had a DOHC 4 valve engine in it, which was sold AM> as an option. It almost doubled the price of the car, but was an AM> excellent engine (designed by Lotus). But the current Corvette runs AM> almost the same numbers with an aluminum 2 valve engine and gets AM> better mileage. The real kicker is the price, which is about $20,000 AM> less than a ZR-1. That's a point :) AM> DOHC 4 valve setups are great for high RPM applications, like racing, AM> but on the street a V8 doesn't need to turn more than 6,000 RPM. All AM> that cost and complexity is wasted when you can make similar power for AM> less money, and it is more efficient to run. What makes you think a DOHC V8 engine is not as efficient as a low tech V8? MG>> Mmmmh... my 90 hp normally are way enough to pass on two-lane MG>> roads. And when they aren't, the other car is driving fast enough MG>> I don't need to pass it. :-) AM> I don't know what you're driving... Or how much it weighs. But to AM> have similar power-to-weight ratio as an F-body, it would need to AM> weigh close to 1,000 lbs (454 KG). (there are 2.2 lbs. per KG.) Hey, I didn't say it is as fast as an F-body. I just said it is fast enough to overtake everything slower than me on country roads. My usual speed on straight country roads is about 70 to 80 mph. Bends are slower, normally about 10 mph slower than the car's and tire's limit. cu .\\arc ... If there was a big bang - remember: God lit the fuse! --- * Origin: sympathy for the debil (2:270/47)