--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1B00011 Date: 01/04/98 From: MARC GERGES Time: 10:56pm \/To: C.A. KLINGEL (Read 0 times) Subj: Forced Induction Salut C.A.! MG> As mentioned in other mails, I don't drive an Eclipse. CAK> That's what I get for jumping in the middle of a thread. Sorry. Never mind. CAK> What do you drive? A Citron BX. Not sold in US. If interested, you may check www.geocities.com/motorcity/6876, a site dedicated to the BX. MG> Maybe... but it's really not my favourite occupation to hang around MG> with guys and burn clutches and tires :-) CAK> You can bring the ladies with you too, if that would help make CAK> it more attractive. We won't complain. :-) I guess the ladies would :) MG> You see, apart from my car probably not being really appropriate to MG> that style of driving, it now has covered 90.000 miles on it's first MG> engine, clutch, transmission and drive shafts, and I'd like it to stay MG> like that for at least another 90.000 miles. CAK> You are wise. Your car is not going to make another 90,000 miles CAK> (kilometers?) Miles. It has 140500 kilometers which corresponds to about 90000 miles. CAK> if you start beating on it. Well...it will, but you CAK> will have to buy lots of parts as go. ;-) :-) It's not that I am afraid of using it, it is built to go 115 mph, and it goes them from time to time. But I'm keen on servicing it properly, on not driving it hard as long as the engine's cold and it doesn't have to make burn outs. I came to like the car in the last 2 years and I don't want to give it away. MG> Mmmmh... I don't think I'd find a drag strip anywhere in a 500 mile MG> radius here :-) CAK> Do they "Street Race" in Germany? I'm not really sure what you mean by 'street race'. If that is waiting at the traffic lights and accelerating like mad when they turn green, yes, that's done from time to time. I sometimes enjoy standing there, letting the engine rev a little bit (a turbo diesel when pushed makes quite an impressive sound, when the turbocharger starts to whistle ;-)) and then start very slowly and calm :) cu .\\arc ...I am Borgs Bunny. What's assimilation, Doc? --- * Origin: sympathy for the debil (2:270/47) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1B00012 Date: 01/04/98 From: MARC GERGES Time: 11:27pm \/To: CHARLES BOWMAN (Read 0 times) Subj: Vector Auto Salut Charles! CB> "TV" Tommy Ivo had a 4WD (and 4 engines if memory serves) dragster, CB> Buick powered I believe. I think it was even in one of of those CB> bikini beach movies in the 60's. MG> And, how did it perform? CB> Pretty well I think but not worth the time, effort and money. I CB> always thought that the force exerted with the monsterous front CB> wheels turning must have made steering a challenge. Hey, it doesn't have to steer :) CB> Not to mention trying to get all 4 corners roughly synchronized. Was every engine connected to one single wheel? If so, I understand why :) MG> Hey, everybody tells me to do, but no one gives me a ticket for a MG> hop over the ocean, so that I can check out :-) CB> Sorry, can't help you there. :) Thought so :) MG> Mmmmh... the advantage in a Jet engine is to me the fact it's MG> simply an actio-reactio relation of acceleration. With wheel driven MG> cars, there is a limit for the power that can be transmitted. CB> Funny, I think that cars are already going 2-3 times faster in the CB> 1/4 than science said was possible when my dad grew up. :-) Modern road cars even perform better in some aspects than physics allows :-) Friction is far from being explained up to the last bit. Basically we know what happens between the rubber and the road, but there are things still not understood. And a hot, very soft dragster tire on a road covered with rubber definitely is one of those cases where unexpected reactions are possible. MG> Is it allowed to break the cars before start? I imagine a really MG> big jet engine that needs a couple of seconds to achieve full MG> thrust doesn't do a good job when just accelerating from a stand MG> still, but braking the car for a few seconds to get it to maximum MG> thrust should help a little bit :-) CB> Yes, similar to launching jets from a runway or carrier, they lock CB> the brakes, add fuel and hold on until the light turns green. I CB> think Don Prudhomme raced against a fighter launched from a steam CB> catapult once, don't remember who won though. :-) cu .\\arc ...I am Spock of Borg. Logic would seem to dictate that I assimilate you. --- * Origin: sympathy for the debil (2:270/47) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1B00013 Date: 01/04/98 From: ALAN MORRISON Time: 02:36pm \/To: MARC GERGES (Read 0 times) Subj: Active Handling -=> Quoting Marc Gerges to Alan Morrison <=- MG> Salut Alan! This is sometimes used as a toast here (before a drink). I'll respond with Cheers Marc! MG> Yes, but most european countries insist on the big plates. Luxembourg MG> as one of few has rear plates in the conventional design but narrower MG> front plates. They designed the latest Corvette with export in mind so it would have minimal changes. I think they dropped the ball here, as the pad where the plate sits could have been designed a bit wider. AM> On the rear, however, a slight improvement for export is two AM> reflective strips on either side, which helps make the tail look AM> smaller. MG> Mmmmh... didn't know they are not on the us model... I have to admit I MG> don't like them... they look very 'aftermarket'. After looking at them again, I agree they look aftermarket. I hope they put a thin wide reflective strip on all models, as long as it looks to be designed in. AM> I noticed that a Ford Escort in the UK is nicer and cheaper than an AM> Escort in the US. MG> It is a different car, isn't it? Yes, the US Escorts are often basic transportation. The European ones I saw were nicer looking with more options even though they were cheaper after checking the exchange rates. MG> I sometimes buy myself a copy of Car & Driver, but very seldom as it's MG> difficult to obtain here, but haven't found an escort in there. There may be specifications from road tests in the back. All issues of C&D (and Motor Trend) have the results of road tests in each issue. Also you can go to the C&D website at: www.caranddriver.com MG> Imho you can't really compare the prices - it starts with cars that MG> are in some european countries 20 or 30% cheaper than in other MG> european countries. There's also the dollar exchange: being at DM 3,50 MG> in the late eighties, it was 1,50 in the mid-nineties and is not MG> around 3,70-3,80. We don't get many UK cars in the US anymore; a Jag every now and then. They could import some of the UK Fords for less than what they sell for here it seems. It may be a volume problem, more than a price issue. MG> Besides it's not only the price of the car, it's also the running MG> costs. From what I can read here, a V8 is not really expensive to run MG> over there? Well, here it is. If you put a lot of highway miles the V8's often meet the mileage of many V6 cars. As an example, I noticed a HUGE Impala full size sedan V8, that got the same highway mileage as a much smaller Honda Accord wagon several years ago. The engines are quite efficient today, but a lighter car can and usually does get better city mileage. The fuel required to accelerate a heavier vehicle will invariably be more. The fuel required to maintain highway speed on a high-torque V8 with proper gearing, may be less than the complex multi-valve small displacement engine that runs much more rpm. --- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR] * Origin: River Canyon Rd. BBS Chattanooga, Tn (1:362/627) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1B00014 Date: 01/04/98 From: ALAN MORRISON Time: 03:00pm \/To: MARC GERGES (Read 0 times) Subj: Vector Auto MG> The FIA GT will race in america? Didn't know about that... AM> These may be FIA cars that can meet ProSportscar Racing rules. They AM> have made efforts to close the gap in differences in recent years AM> including changing the sanctioning bodies name from IMSA to PSR and AM> trying to create an alliance with the FIA. MG> What exactly are the PSR cars? Engines like the Porsche 911 GT1, the MG> McLaren F1 or completely different? Two basic types with four different classes; WorldSportsCar, and GT Series. World SportsCar: Seven chassis (Riley & Scott, Ferrari, Kudzu, Hawk, Courage, Argo & URD), powered by 7 engine manufacturers (Ford, Ferrari, Oldsmobile, BMW, Buick, Chevrolet & Mazda) will be piloted by drivers from 11 countries (Belgium, Brazil, Canada, Chile, England, Italy, Monaco, Peru, South Africa, Spain & United States) This was what ran at Laguna Seca this year. Other manufacturers may race as well, with a 5 liter limit on 2 valve engines, and a 4 liter limit on 4 valve engines. Exxon Supreme GT Series: GTS-1 features two-wheel drive, production-based cars using tube frame construction with normally-aspirated engines between 3.5 and 6.0 liters; normally-aspirated unibody cars up to 8.0 liters and turbocharged unibody cars up to 4.0 liters. Eligible cars include Oldsmobile Aurora, Porsche 911 Turbo, Callaway C7R, Dodge Viper GTS-R GTS-2 exclusively features unibody cars, two-wheel or four-wheel drive, with turbocharged engines up to 4.0 liters and normally-aspirated engines up to 8.0 liters. Eligible cars include Callaway Corvette, Ford Mustang, Ferrari 550 Maranello. GTS-3 features two-wheel drive, production-based cars using tube frame construction with engines between 2.0 and 3.8 liters; normally-aspirated unibody cars up to 3.8 liters, turbocharged unibody cars up to 3.0 liters (with a maximum of 4 cylinders) and the turbocharged two-rotor Mazda RX-7. --- AM> February is known as race month at Daytona Int'l Raceway. Several AM> different sanctioning bodies have events there, including NASCAR, AM> PSR, and also motorcycle racing. MG> NASCAR are those huge street car lookalikes, right? A formula derived from stock full-size and intermediate size passenger cars in the 50's and 60's. Starting in the '70's they switched to intermediate sized cars that sold with V8's. Since many of these now have Front-Drive V6's, they abandoned the stock layout and continued to race the Front-Engine, Rear Wheel Drive setup. AM> Don Garlits was instrumental in the success of drag racing here AM> since the 1950's, always preferring the Chrysler Hemi design which AM> has not been dethroned by even OHC 4 valve setups. MG> Did anybody on these machines experiment with 4 or more driven wheels MG> instead of two? Yes, in the 60's they experimented with this but weight transfer unloads the front wheels and they just put smoke in your vision. AM> It is different; more an engineering exercise to extract the most AM> power from an engine and apply it for acceleration. MG> That's why I wonder if there are no cars with 4WD or the like. Or There are classes for stock vehicles so you can run AWD vehicles or whatever you like. The non-pro classes are usually run on an index system; meaning you run against a class 'dial-in' time, and may race a faster car. The slower car is started first by an amount equal to the expected time difference. This is a driver test, but I prefer to see a 'heads-up' contest; meaning basically the cars start at the same time and the quickest car usually wins. MG> completely different approaches, maybe jet engines... if the goal is MG> nothing but best acceleration, two big wheels can't be everything... Jets have nothing in common with passenger cars except maybe wheels. Of course the fastest accelerating vehicles I've seen are Rockets. A Navy built hydrogen peroxide Rocket car, which was nothing but a pair of fuel & oxidant tanks in a tube with driver controls, ran over 300 MPH in the 1/4 mile 15 years ago. This was much faster than the wheel-driven vehicles, which are today running those speeds. MG> I see Indycar races from time to time, simply because they are aired MG> live in the evening here in europe. Except for the ovals, it's like MG> F1. Yes, very similar with slightly different rules, engine sizes, tires, etc. There has been a split in IndyCar Racing as of 1997. One still runs small turbocharged V8's that wind past 12,000 RPM and cost a fortune to keep abreast of the competition. The other runs normally aspirated V8's with a 4 liter limit and a 10,500 RPM ceiling, which keeps the cost down. --- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR] * Origin: River Canyon Rd. BBS Chattanooga, Tn (1:362/627) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1B00015 Date: 01/04/98 From: ALAN MORRISON Time: 03:31pm \/To: DEVIN DIMITRI (Read 0 times) Subj: cool cop cars -=> Quoting Devin Dimitri to Alan Morrison <=- AM> As you may know, the last Caprice Police car was in 1996. They are AM> still supplying Camaros, Luminas, and Blazer Police vehicles. DD> BLAZERS?? How are you supposed to chase anything but a DD> two-speed two cylinder Geo Metro with that? These are used in areas where dirt roads, and open land is common. They would still run down a 3 or 4 cylinder Metro though, on or off road. The intimidation factor alone might cause the Metro driver to stop! AM> VEHICLE '96 Caprice '96 Crown Vic AM> Test Weight 4249 3974 AM> Road Course 83.35 84.79 AM> 0-100 21.47 25.18 AM> Top Speed 139 135 DD> ^^^ DD> I don't believe that at all. I've got a '93 dual exhaust model DD> and i've only gotten it to about 115. That is probably the speed rating of the factory installed tires. Car and Driver Magazine tested an Impala SS LT1 which ran 142 MPH. OOPS, reread the original and saw you underlined the Crown Vic, the reader deleted the spaces! C&D only got 106 MPH out of a '95 model. Ford must do some major tweaking on the Police package. Suppose they may supply the 351 (5.8)? DD> Thanks for the info. Now if i could only find some skid-pad DD> ratings... Non-Police Crown Vics get about .81 G; Impala SS gets about .86 G. With two tons of sedan, that's a lot of mass to control! --- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR] * Origin: River Canyon Rd. BBS Chattanooga, Tn (1:362/627) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1B00016 Date: 01/04/98 From: ALAN MORRISON Time: 03:40pm \/To: ROY J. TELLASON (Read 0 times) Subj: Ahh, humor -=> Quoting Roy J. Tellason to Alan Morrison <=- AM> 6. The oil, engine, gas and alternator lights would be AM> replaced with a single "General Car Fault" warning light. RJT> Good stuff, there. On this one, aren't they doing that to some RJT> exent now? What the hell is an "Engine" light telling me, anyhow? If a passenger inquires what a CHECK ENGINE light means, ask them to go look and see if it's still there. ;^) --- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR] * Origin: River Canyon Rd. BBS Chattanooga, Tn (1:362/627) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1B00017 Date: 01/04/98 From: ALAN MORRISON Time: 03:42pm \/To: ROY J. TELLASON (Read 0 times) Subj: Engine Wanted -=> Quoting Roy J. Tellason to Alan Morrison <=- AM> Factors affecting cam choice are compression ratio, gearing, AM> torque converter, intended use, and fuel octane you wish to run. RJT> I used to run the "mid-grade" stuff, in earlier vehicles, and had RJT> bumped the timing to just a bit before ping. It worked out well for RJT> me, as I got a bit better economy than with the timing set to spec RJT> and cheaper gas. I do the same; mid-grade gas, and set the timing where it runs (& starts) best. This is the way to do it on a modified vehicle, as long as you use the factory settings as a guideline. An old mechanic once told me to set the timing on a Chevy 'where it will crank', meaning advance it until you encounter starter drag on a hot engine, then back it off a bit. Any ping would still need to be addressed though as this is the sound of little hammers beating the ring lands out of the soft aluminum pistons. AM> I installed a torque-type cam with .420 intake lift and .443 AM> exhaust. This also had 204 intake/214 exhaust degrees duration AM> @ .050" lift. RJT> Are all of these specs variable when you're looking at cams? I have RJT> not yet begun to look at what's out there... The factory cam was .390 & .410, so you can see this is mild. The factory high performance versions were near .450 & .460. A bigger concern is the duration numbers which affect idle and drivability a great deal. AM> This is a common spec cam that you can get for your 318 many places. AM> Summit has a part # SUM-K6900 for it. RJT> Cool. AM> I'm not sure on Chrysler 318's, but it is either dished pistons or AM> larger chambers. RJT> As in the heads? Hard to say, but I don't recall anything unusual RJT> about the pistons when I had those heads off. They seemed pretty flat RJT> to me, is this something that would be real obvious to look at it? Yes, and yes. The dish is visually apparent, about 10-20 CC's. AM> If it never pings on regular, you might want to have them CC'd AM> or at least ask a knowledgeable shop person. RJT> As in machine shop person? And wouldn't the timing spec have some Yes, and yes. RJT> effect on this? I don't recall any ping in that motor after I got RJT> done working on it, but it's been so long since I ran that car it's a RJT> little fuzzy at this point. If you are close to stock, with no problems such as EGR, or wrong plugs, etc. and it doesn't ping, even with timing set several degrees advanced from factory settings... it may have too large of a combustion chamber in the heads. RJT> I don't believe that this block has ever been bored, or that much if RJT> any engine work had been done on this car before I tore into it. The RJT> condition of things, how much crud around some bolt heads, the RJT> crossover in the intake being darn near totally blocked, and similar RJT> stuff beside the fact that it still had the plastic timing gear that RJT> ended up giving me so much trouble, I can't see someone going to all RJT> the trouble of putting that much work into a motor and leaving that RJT> in. Make sense? Yes. But sometimes the heads get rebuilt before the bottom-end and rings need attention. RJT> I'll find out what those heads came off and get back to you. I RJT> *think* it may have been a 360, though I'm not sure... You can address it to me or to All. I can respond on general info more than specifics on Chrysler products. If I don't have the answer maybe someone here can fill us in. --- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR] * Origin: River Canyon Rd. BBS Chattanooga, Tn (1:362/627) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1B00018 Date: 01/04/98 From: ALAN MORRISON Time: 04:07pm \/To: ROY WITT (Read 0 times) Subj: Electrical loads, battery -=> Quoting Roy Witt to Alan Morrison <=- AM> I should have said 'zero Battery voltage'. I'll assume you are AM> saying it will produce voltage without a battery, given sufficient AM> rpm. RW> I think the thing starts around 600rpm...whatever the pully ratio.. Thanks Roy... another concurred with that estimate. AM> I have not tried this in a long time, as it could not be push AM> started with an automatic anyway. RW> Not for many years...late 50's maybe... Early 60's I believe. When I was a kid I remember going to retrieve a car that had not been started in quite a while. The starter would not budge it at first. Dad soaked the cylinders with penetrant and after a while we pulled it with another car. This was a '62 Pontiac with 3 speed automatic. It evidently still had the rear pump in the tranny which is what allows them to be push started. Somewhere after this GM (along with others) removed the extra pump at the rear, possibly for cost as well as efficiency. It takes some fuel to drive the extra pump... Did you know the 700r4 stops pumping fluid through the cooler lines after lockup for this reason? --- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR] * Origin: River Canyon Rd. BBS Chattanooga, Tn (1:362/627) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1B00019 Date: 01/04/98 From: ALAN MORRISON Time: 04:14pm \/To: ROY WITT (Read 0 times) Subj: Monza diagnosis -=> Quoting Roy Witt to Alan Morrison <=- AM> The Monza seemed to be more cold natured in the morning recently. I AM> had already advanced the timing a little and richened the choke a AM> notch. This helped but it still feels a little sluggish. Care to make AM> a stab at the problem, which I just recently found? AM> It's a 1975 Monza, 350 engine with a Holley carb on a Performer AM> intake. Other than that it is nearly stock, with single exhaust and AM> automatic transmission. No smoke, or noises present, and basic AM> engine condition is good. It has had spark plugs, rotor, and filters AM> changed in the last 10,000 miles. RW> Well, if it's not a clogged air filter or a mouse nest in the air RW> cleaner, it might be the cam under the accelerator lever or the RW> accelerator diaphram itself.. Thanks Roy... I'll post what I found soon, after others have had a chance to respond. I've noticed some seem to be on vacation. No nests I'm aware of. I do drive all my vehicles regularly, in an alternating fashion. Got to keep those batteries up! --- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR] * Origin: River Canyon Rd. BBS Chattanooga, Tn (1:362/627) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1B00020 Date: 01/04/98 From: ALAN MORRISON Time: 05:45pm \/To: SEAN DUNBAR (Read 0 times) Subj: Active Handling -=> Quoting Sean Dunbar to Marc Gerges <=- MG> From what I can read here, a V8 is not really expensive to run MG> over there? Well, here it is. SD> It depends on the car. Lots of the newer V8 models are as economical SD> as the V6/I6 models, and some even as good as the 4 cylinder models. SD> Look at the new Corvette, it has an engine around 5.6 or 5.7L I think SD> (not sure on this, can someone help me out here?), and I think it gets SD> about 20-25 MPG on the highway. It is EPA rated at 18 city and 28 highway. The size is somewhat debatable as the engine is listed in metric numbers and inches... here's the scoop: Chevy calls it a 5.7 liter, 347 Cubic inch. Motor Trend reports a bore of 3.90"(99mm) and and stroke of 3.62"(92mm). With the metric numbers converted to inches they are not exact. So it comes up between 345.73 and 346.15 cubic inch. This is 5.67 L, and all numbers are rounded up. --- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR] * Origin: River Canyon Rd. BBS Chattanooga, Tn (1:362/627)