--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1300039 Date: 01/02/98 From: BILL MITCHELL Time: 06:26pm \/To: PETER HARLE (Read 0 times) Subj: Electrical loads, battery PH> As you say Alan, if it's an automatic it's all academic. PH> However most PH> automotive alternators have sufficient residual magnetic flux PH> (remanence) in the rotor to cause it to "self excite" without using PH> the extra current via the "warning light" circuit. Maybe this is true someplace, but I've never known of an automobile alternator that could charge a battery without getting an initial exciting current from some outside source, usually that same battery. This does not apply to motorcycle alternators, which usually use permanent magnets instead of field coils. --- * Origin: The Right Place, Fort Lee, NJ USA(201)947-8231 (1:2604/539.11) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1300040 Date: 01/02/98 From: JAY EMRIE Time: 09:37pm \/To: MARK LOGSDON (Read 0 times) Subj: 1994 Ply Battery Drain ML>JE> ML>A diode could be leaky, but I'm sure you know that. ML>JE> ML>JE> Yep! It would have to be intermittent though - or else it would show p ML>JE> on my current measurements wouldn't it? ML>Yes, and I believe several others have made the same comment. ML>Seldom do we all totally agree on something. :) ML>JE> Doesn't seem to be losing a charge since the incident (several days ML>JE> now) - Yes, I am afraid we are truly chasing an intermittent METHING! ML>Let me relate a brief story to you about my former 79 Ford truck. ML>The relatively new battery (less than a year old) seemed to not hold ML>a charge. I had to jump start it a few times, and I would have no ML>problems if I put it on a charger overnight about every other night. ML>The charging voltage was about 14 volts, so I didn't believe it to ML>be an alternator problem. All of the connections were clean and ML>tight. I took it to the shop to get the battery tested. Yes, the ML>battery was bad, I was told. At least it was still under warranty. ML>Guess what? ML>Even with the new battery I had the same symptoms. So I went back ML>to the shop. This time the mechanic happened to touch the positive ML>battery cable and OUCH! It was hot. It just so happened that I had ML>just started the truck. The starter was drawing an excessive ML>current, so much so that it heated the battery cable. I changed the ML>starter and it fixed the problem. ML>Apparently the starter was consuming so much energy from the battery ML>that my 20 minute drive each way to work was insufficient to ML>replenish the energy in the battery. It was one of those marginal ML>situations. As long as the battery had a good charge, the starter ML>did a super job of turning the engine. There were no other ML>symptoms. ML>I doubt that this is your problem, but I thought I'd mention it. Thanks, Mark. I rather doubt it also. I happened to have my arm on the battery cable during and after starting several times. Didn't feel any heat. Of course the starter on a V6 with fuel injection, computers, etc. starts much quicker than the Ford V8s did, so much less draw = no heat. * OLX 2.1 TD * I'm a lawyer. Honest? No, the usual kind. --- RemoteAccess 2.50+ * Origin: Northern Lights! * San Antonio * 210-499-6299 V34/VFC (1:387/23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1300041 Date: 01/02/98 From: JAY EMRIE Time: 09:38pm \/To: ROY J. TELLASON (Read 0 times) Subj: 1994 Ply Battery Drain RJT>JAY EMRIE wrote in a message to ROY J. TELLASON: RJT>RJT> JE> Anyhow, John charged the battery (only 4 months old) up enough RJT>RJT> JE> to start the Van, then they took a LONG drive to charge the RJT>RJT> JE> battery up. It was up to 13.3 V when I went over yesterday RJT>RJT> JE> (still needed a bit more charging). ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ RJT>RJT>When was this voltage measured? While running? Right after it was shu RJT>RJT>of RJT>RJT>ter it'd been sitting for a while? RJT> JE> Motor shut off AND after surface charge removed. RJT>After surface charge is removed a fully charged battery will typically meas RJT>2.6... RJT>A good way to remove surface charge is to put the headlights on for about 1 RJT>onds or so. That we did. Also see above. RJT>RJT>Could be computer stuff, too. RJT> JE> What computer stuff INSIDE the car? RJT>Sure, in the dash, for one thing. RJT><...> RJT>RJT>You said that the battery had been replaced recently (months?). I've s RJT> JE> About 4 months if I remember correctly. RJT>RJT>ber of instances where a vehicle (particularly those!) had a battery pu RJT>RJT>in RJT>RJT> dealer that was somewhat less than what was called for. The aravans RJT>RJT> that RJT>RJT>n remember mostly wanted 500 or so CCA, and I usually stuck a 525 in RJT>RJT>there RJT>RJT>remember seeing some dealer replacements where they put a 400 CCA batte RJT>RJT>i RJT>RJT>re. I'd check a BCI book if possible to see what that particular vehic RJT>RJT>c RJT>RJT>for, if you get the chance. RJT> JE> Largest battery that physically fit was used as replacement. RJT>That would have been a group _24_, then, if the wires would reach. RJT> JE> Both my brother and I have long been advocates of using the RJT> JE> biggest battery possible. RJT>Yeah. I have a group 31 (!) in my Ford pickup here. :-) 700 CCA, 180 mi RJT> reserve... RJT><...> RJT>RJT> Was his back window especially clean? :-) Anyhow, you may be looki RJT>RJT> a RJT>RJT>intermittent electrical problem like that of some sort. RJT> JE> That's part of the problem. We can NOT find ANYTHING on when RJT> JE> a charged battery is put in the vehicle. No rear window RJT> JE> wiper, deicer/defroster installed. Thanks for the reply. RJT>Good luck tracing that one down, and let us know if you find out what it i Thanks, looks like we will need it. May be quite some time in view of the highly intermittent failure rate. * OLX 2.1 TD * Barfignugen: Carsickness in a Volkswagen --- RemoteAccess 2.50+ * Origin: Northern Lights! * San Antonio * 210-499-6299 V34/VFC (1:387/23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1300042 Date: 01/02/98 From: JAY EMRIE Time: 09:21pm \/To: MARK LOGSDON (Read 0 times) Subj: Battery sizes ML>JE> Roy, that is your privilege. However it has been working to perfection ML>JE> for me since 1960. Since using silicone grease I have far far less ML>JE> battery cable/post corrision problems that I did before. I clean every ML>JE> thing, then I put a coating of silicone ALL over the cable end ML>JE> connector AND the battery post. Does wonders. ML>My dad always used regular old black (moly) grease. It worked well ML>for him. No doubt. Even vaseline works just fine. Too bad a few others can't be convinced! * OLX 2.1 TD * Gingseg is better for er,uh,what was I writing about? --- RemoteAccess 2.50+ * Origin: Northern Lights! * San Antonio * 210-499-6299 V34/VFC (1:387/23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1300043 Date: 01/02/98 From: JAY EMRIE Time: 09:24pm \/To: ROY J. TELLASON (Read 0 times) Subj: Electrical loads, battery RJT>JAY EMRIE wrote in a message to ROY J. TELLASON: RJT>RJT> JE> I do NOT know anything except right on the battery it says RJT>RJT> JE> "550CCA @ 0 degrees, 750 CCA @ 32 degrees". RJT>RJT>Then that battery is marked in a misleading fashion. What brand was th RJT> JE> I never mentioned the brand, but it is a Champion. RJT>Figures... RJT> JE> Doesn't really seem misleading to me, even if not comforming to RJT> JE> normal protocol. Stands to reason that CCA would be less at 0 RJT> JE> Degrees than at 32 degrees. Besides, either 0 or 32 degrees is RJT> JE> COLD to us down here! VBG RJT>Heh. It all depends. It seems that "cranking amps" or even "cold cranking RJT>" has worked its way into the mind of a great many average consumers, as wa RJT>denced by the number of people I had coming into the store asking me for "a RJT>sand cranking amp battery" . RJT>Most mfr's are members of BCI (Battery Council International), which is th RJT>anization that maintains the standards, and they're the ones that define C RJT> far as I know. RJT>I never did like "Champion" batteries, anyhow. Well, you take what you get. That was in the car when I bought it. * OLX 2.1 TD * Forest Lawn's nice to visit,but nobody wants tolive there --- RemoteAccess 2.50+ * Origin: Northern Lights! * San Antonio * 210-499-6299 V34/VFC (1:387/23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1300044 Date: 01/02/98 From: JAY EMRIE Time: 09:39pm \/To: TOM WALKER (Read 0 times) Subj: Electrical loads, battery TW>-> TOM WALKER wrote in a message to BILL MITCHELL: TW>-> TW>-> -> ML> I believe he's questioning whether it will START without a TW>-> -> ML> battery. Does it have sufficient residual magnetism to TW>-> -> ML> generate a field? I suspect not. TW>-> -> TW>-> -> Your suspitions are correct, automotive alternators (in reality th TW>-> -> really an AC Generator) are not self exciting and retain no residu TW>-> -> magnatism. They need a battery to excite the field, otherwise they TW>-> -> zero output. TW>-> TW>-> TW> Not only that but are of the Very Efficient Three Phase TW>-> TW> design enabling them to put out those Higher Current outputs TW>-> TW> in a much smaller package. Anybody that has ever seen or TW>-> TW> replaced an old 100 Amp engine Generator can testify to TW>-> TW> that. TW>-> TW>-> From what I understand, some of the newer stuff (GM in particular) i TW>-> going to a lot more phases than that... TW> Hadn't heard anything about that. But some of the Alternators now days TW>have a Second Diode bridge. They are not 6 phase though the extra bridge TW>in in the Voltage regulator circuit. They've been like that for quite a few years (alternators with built in regulators that is). * OLX 2.1 TD * Jury: A group chosen to decide who has the best lawyer. --- RemoteAccess 2.50+ * Origin: Northern Lights! * San Antonio * 210-499-6299 V34/VFC (1:387/23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1300045 Date: 01/02/98 From: JASON WEDEHASE Time: 12:56pm \/To: ROY WITT (Read 0 times) Subj: Another CA smog law? Roy Witt told the story like this: RW> Not if the next piece of legislation goes through. It will allow you RW> to modify any vehicle, as long as it stays smog clean...In fact, the RW> underhood inspection will be a thing of the past if this one goes RW> through. Now THERE is an idea! Are you serious?! I've said this is the way to go all along! All my friend's cars would pass the sniffer, though none would pass visual cause they don't have TAC or heat stoves and probably something stupid, like one of them doesn't have a smog pump on his '73 Nova. Jason Wedehase strife66@Psynet.net http://www.Psynet.net/strife66 ... Do I BELIEVE in the Bible?! HELL man, I've SEEN one! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0154 * Origin: MicroLink BBS * Dinuba, CA 209-591-8753 (1:214/80) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1300046 Date: 01/02/98 From: JASON WEDEHASE Time: 12:56pm \/To: JEREMY LOWREY (Read 0 times) Subj: 700R4/TH350 swap Jeremy Lowrey told the story like this: JL> Really? I'm impressed, since the Th350 is a forward pattern, and the JL> 700__R__4 is a reverse pattern. Not only does it involve a complete JL> linkage swap, but a new shifter and probably re-cutting the hole for JL> the shifter as well. ;) Doing all of that in an hour impresses me in JL> and of itself, not to mention the 700R4 is an electronic tranny and JL> needs the system hooked up even if in a loop to fool it. If JL> you can do that in an hour, I'll buy the tranny, your air tickets, all JL> your meals and bear you can chug if you'll come do mine. :> The trannies are the same length. The tailshaft is shorter on the 700R4 but the main body is longer. They both measured to exactly the same length from splinetip to splintetip. The shifter he had was a B&M Megashifter, cable-op, so there were no mods there. The wiring was done with a B&M Lockup Convertor Control box. That was practically a "screw it onto the dash" mod. The driveshaft was not modified in any way. JL> And from all people I've talked to, the tail-length of the 700R4 is a JL> tad longer than the Th350 which necessitates a drive shaft swap. Not JL> that that would add much time to a job assuming you already had the new JL> shaft (since you'd have to remove it anyways). I'm just curiuos if the JL> cross memeber clearances would all still be the same and so on. And JL> where did you get new mounts for it, or did the old ones work? I don't remember anythign about mounts... hmm... this was in a 1963 Chevy pickup that had a 350/350 combo. Jason Wedehase strife66@Psynet.net http://www.Psynet.net/strife66 ... Save the whales. Collect the whole set. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0154 * Origin: MicroLink BBS * Dinuba, CA 209-591-8753 (1:214/80) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1300047 Date: 01/02/98 From: JASON WEDEHASE Time: 12:56pm \/To: SEAN DUNBAR (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Active Handling Sean Dunbar told the story like this: SD> Look at the new Corvette, it has an engine around 5.6 or 5.7L I think SD> (not sure on this, can someone help me out here?), and I think it gets SD> about 20-25 MPG on the highway. still a 5.7lt, it's 346 CID. Jason Wedehase strife66@Psynet.net http://www.Psynet.net/strife66 ... Always remember you're unique, just like everybody else. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0154 * Origin: MicroLink BBS * Dinuba, CA 209-591-8753 (1:214/80) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1300048 Date: 01/02/98 From: JASON WEDEHASE Time: 12:56pm \/To: JEREMY LOWREY (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Transmission? Jeremy Lowrey told the story like this: JL> Well I read an article about the 700R4 as a swap alternative, and how JL> there are companys that sell complete hookups for it so you don't HAVe JL> to fool it. It will work as it was designed to, as a closed loop system JL> (i.e. no hookups to smog/fuel systems/ignition/etc just the transmision JL> doing it's job). So you could completely program shift points etc etc JL> etc. This appeals to me a lot, since you can program by throtal range This might be what I was talking about in that last message. It's from B&M, it's a little slider bar switch for setting your convertor lockup point, but I know it also has the wires that go down into the tranny. Two of my friends have the 700R4 on an old mechanical ignition, carbed, Detroit Iron, regular Chevy 350. JL> into 3rd type of deal ;) ). I was extremely curious about this, but I JL> think it has a hefty pricetag attached and I'm not sure I want to JL> bother with a car I don't intend to keep all that long. However, I also I think the control box/system was about $180. JL> is going to help. :) And besides, even if I see no improvement in JL> mileage... at least I won't see a severe hit in driveability and JL> mileage when I drop it 3.8x gears in place of those 3.08's :)0 Exactly! And if you're going with OD, you might even be able to go deeper into the gears than that! One of the two previously mentioned friends (Joel Heckman, actually) hass 3.08s also. He is able to use OD to some extent. I think he waits until at least 65 MPH, but it's real weird flying down the freeway faster than anyone else and seeing a tach read 1700RPM =). Jason Wedehase strife66@Psynet.net http://www.Psynet.net/strife66 ... Trespassers will be violated. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.20 --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0154 * Origin: MicroLink BBS * Dinuba, CA 209-591-8753 (1:214/80)