--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1100071 Date: 12/31/97 From: DEVIN DIMITRI Time: 04:47pm \/To: KENNY HENDERSON (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: American Sports Car KH> What about superchargin a Viper? Sounds like a sure 10 second ride KH> with some traction:) --- * OLX 2.1 TD * There is no such thing as Hmmm, actually, i think if you're gonna put any type of blower on that snake, you'd better put on a turbocharger. You don't need/want any more torque in the low range. Turbo lag would probably be a good thing in this car, IMHO. -Lates --- Telegard v3.09.g1/mL * Origin: The Rapid Eye - 913-393-4104 - Olathe,KS (1:280/183) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1100072 Date: 01/01/98 From: MARK LOGSDON Time: 11:58am \/To: ROY J. TELLASON (Read 0 times) Subj: Electrical loads, battery RJ> I don't know this for a fact, just passing along something that came RJ> up in conversation one time. Maybe six, maybe even more phases. This RJ> was from a guy who should be hanging out in here, he's got the RJ> know-how in detail... Star windings? Aren't they six phase, i.e., 60 degrees sequential? --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0232 * Origin: IBMNet Connection - Indpls, IN - 317-882-5575 28.8 USR (1:231/1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1100073 Date: 01/01/98 From: MARK LOGSDON Time: 11:58am \/To: ROY J. TELLASON (Read 0 times) Subj: REAR WINDOW HEATERS RJ> Anyhow, she stopped by one cold winter day and just as they were RJ> walking away from the car the rear window shattered into a bazillion RJ> pieces. Yeah, it had one of those heaters on it, and yeah, she'd RJ> been using it that day, for whatever that's worth... Awesome. --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0232 * Origin: IBMNet Connection - Indpls, IN - 317-882-5575 28.8 USR (1:231/1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1100074 Date: 01/01/98 From: BILL MITCHELL Time: 09:29am \/To: ROY J. TELLASON (Read 0 times) Subj: Battery Terminals BM>> fishing weights, and when I did, many of them had spring BM>> steel innards. Maybe I'm mistaken, though, could they have BM>> been those boltless dandys GM used at one time? RJT> I dunno, I've not run across much that was in all that RJT> non-standard. There's the lead terminals, the plated They were standard, at least for GM, when GM used them before GM switched to side terminals. They were unmistakable, there was no bolt to tighten them, it's possible that a crimping tool existed specially for them, I don't know. It's quite possible that none of them exist now, as they were almost impossible to reuse or clean if necessary and as far as I know they were only OEM. --- * Origin: The Right Place, Fort Lee, NJ USA(201)947-8231 (1:2604/539.11) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1100075 Date: 01/01/98 From: BILL MITCHELL Time: 03:56am \/To: ROY J. TELLASON (Read 0 times) Subj: REVERSE QUESTION RJT> BM> I recently went through the New Jersey DMV's official testing RJT> BM> procedure (got my jeep inspected at a state run station). RJT>Ain't they something? :-) Jeeps? Yes, we have three. Strange, even though all three have the same engine the 4.0L, my '95 has now broken the bolts into the engine on the right side motor mount twice with only 30,000 on the clock and no rough service. Does anybody know how I can find out if this is some sort of problem with '95s? --- RyPacker v2.5a * Origin: The Right Place V.34 DS Ft.Lee,NJ 201-947-8231 (1:2604/539) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1100076 Date: 12/31/97 From: MARC GERGES Time: 09:55pm \/To: ALAN MORRISON (Read 0 times) Subj: Active Handling Salut Alan! MG> So I'll possibly see them when the first Corvettes arrive here - we MG> have the export models standard :) AM> I've seen a write-up on the export model. It had a huge (wide) AM> license plate on the front that really looked out of place. Yes, but most european countries insist on the big plates. Luxembourg as one of few has rear plates in the conventional design but narrower front plates. AM> The nose was designed to possibly hold a US sized plate, which is AM> more square, but it would be a shame to have to install this AM> also. Many states here don't require a front tag, only the rear. I know that from american tv shows :-) AM> On the rear, however, a slight improvement for export is two AM> reflective strips on either side, which helps make the tail look AM> smaller. Mmmmh... didn't know they are not on the us model... I have to admit I don't like them... they look very 'aftermarket'. MG> that's ESP. When a car oversteers, a momentum is build by braking MG> one wheel to stop the oversteer. AM> I hope the system doesn't upset the input of a driver who corrects AM> the potential skid himself. That's the point: the system reacts faster and sooner than the driver, so the driver may only upset the system's input :-) AM> Is it true that Mercedes has many affordably priced models in AM> Europe? They tend to be in the $40k to over $130k here. MG> The cheapest Mercedes is the A, it starts at prices about 10 to 15 % MG> higher than a comparable Volkswagen Golf here. There is a range of MG> relatively small engines in the C and E sedans that make the car not MG> really cheap, but affordable... the 1.8, 2.0 and various small diesel MG> engines. AM> I noticed that a Ford Escort in the UK is nicer and cheaper than an AM> Escort in the US. It is a different car, isn't it? I sometimes buy myself a copy of Car & Driver, but very seldom as it's difficult to obtain here, but haven't found an escort in there. AM> As I recall, they were less than $6,000 US dollars, while a 1.9 AM> liter US version, (which is a cheap, entry level car) is closer to AM> $11,000. It gave me a new insight to car prices here, which have AM> really gone up over the last decade or two. In 1977 a friend AM> bought a heavily equipped Oldsmobile for around $7000 dollars; AM> twenty years later that price has at least quadrupled (4x). Imho you can't really compare the prices - it starts with cars that are in some european countries 20 or 30% cheaper than in other european countries. There's also the dollar exchange: being at DM 3,50 in the late eighties, it was 1,50 in the mid-nineties and is not around 3,70-3,80. Besides it's not only the price of the car, it's also the running costs. From what I can read here, a V8 is not really expensive to run over there? Well, here it is. cu .\\arc ...667: Satan's neighbor... --- * Origin: sympathy for the debil (2:270/47) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1100077 Date: 12/31/97 From: MARC GERGES Time: 09:56pm \/To: KENNY HENDERSON (Read 0 times) Subj: Forced Induction Salut Kenny! MG>Please don't take it personally, but I just find it amusing to imagine you MG>sitting in your car (V8, I guess, and with really big tires) accelerating MG>like a fool over that quarter mile, then throwing the anchor, come to a MG>standstill and let the wheels spin to accelerate again... KH> Don't have 'really big tires' and my car can do just a bit more KH> then just accelerate. I can outbrake an Eclipse GSX as well. A-ha. MG>As said, I don't want to attack you, but is acceleration MG>really all that is about a car? Such an Eclipse is a lovely car MG>to dart around small mountain MG>roads. KH> Never said it wasn't a fine car, what I did say is its hard to get KH> excited about a 'sporty car' that costs $24,000 and runs low 15s KH> and doesn't handle that well. So what would a Camaro cost? The Eclipse is here about 60% of the Camaro's price. KH> If 4 bangers are what you want fine, but I'll take a Honda KH> Prelude. The Honda's build quality is better, just as fast, and KH> they handle better. The Prelude is not a big success here, you see it very seldom... but on the other hand, so is the Eclipse :) KH> It has enough power, a decent suspension and not too much weight, KH> so MG>it is big fun as soon as the road bends, and if it's still capable to KH> stay MG>in sight of the big V8 car, there seem to me a lot of KH> reasons to prefer it.. KH> Reasons for you to prefer it, not me. My car does not handle KH> badly, drive one, you may be surprised. In fact I never drove one of those big US monsters, I'll definitely have to try. KH> I'm in no way saying its handling is world class, but it is KH> decent, and for a basically stock car, the power is top-notch. To KH> me, a 158 mph top speed, 0-60 in 5.8 seconds, and 1/4 mile in KH> 14.1 (with auto), .88Gs handling, How is that handling number measured? Is it a proportional factor to something given on a defined track or what? KH> and braking 60-0 MPH in 112 feet is good all around performance. 112 feet? Either my convertion chart from feet to meters is wrong or your car breaks better than every Porsche, Ferrari and McLaren available... KH> For a under $1000 in mods these stats have been KH> improved as well, the car is .5 faster in the 1/4 mile, handles KH> better, and should be able to hit 160mph now. You can listen to KH> the little 4 banger wheeze, strain, and whine. I prefer the V8s KH> deep tune a bit more. Also lets talk gas mileage. What is the KH> advantage of a 4 banger when a V8 gets just as good gas mileage? Mmmmh... the 98 Firebird gives in the ECE-test 14,3l. That's 16.3mpg. The Eclipse's number is 9,7, corresponding to 24,7. cu .\\arc ...A flat minor: what you get when you drop a piano down a mine. --- * Origin: sympathy for the debil (2:270/47) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1100078 Date: 12/31/97 From: MARC GERGES Time: 10:06pm \/To: ALAN MORRISON (Read 0 times) Subj: Mercedes A-Class Salut Alan! MG> The so-called 'elk test' describes what an automobilist has to do when MG> he sees an elk on the road - quite an ordinary situation on some MG> skandinavian roads, it seems. It is run at 60 km/h (37mph) and is a MG> double lane change over a distance of 30 m. AM> Some US magazines include an 'emergency lane change' maneuver, AM> others just have a slalom to test the ability to quickly change AM> direction while maintaining control. The idea about the lane change ist that the results may vary heavily with the speed. At 75 mph, the A-Class made it, but at 37.5 it failed. AM> Ironically, the announcement came only hours before it A-Class was AM> awarded the "Golden Steering Wheel" for the best new car by Bildam AM> Sonntag, a German weekly newspaper. MG> Just to notice, Bild am Sonntag is not a car magazine, it's a rather MG> light gossip newspaper. AM> A sort of tabloid, I suppose. Yes, exactly. AM> Mercedes has been praised for their forthright attempt to confront AM> this matter. MG> Not really. AM> I saw something about this on TV, where a test driver rolled it, AM> which brought an immediate response from Mercedes engineers about AM> the tires. As said before, they first denied everything and then charged the tires for it. After magazines tilted the car with other tires, they had to react... MG> Meanwhile every car magazine and TV show tried to tilt the car, and MG> most managed to do so - made a lot of spectacular pictures and videos MG> of the car. AM> Yes, here NBC (National Broadcasting Company) went a step further AM> than that while trying to 'develop' a story on GM pickup trucks. AM> It seems they had to plant a small bomb to get one of the truck's AM> gas tank to explode on collision. Not exactly ethic journalistic behaviour, is it? By the way, we get NBC here in europe, but not exactly the american program. During the day, it's mostly business tv, in the early evening there's a couple of european magazines, and in the late evening they air Jay Leno and Conan O'Brien. Funny to watch :) MG> Then Mercedes came out and committed they made an error and they'd MG> stop the production to find a solution for the problem. AM> A good,timely move. Unfortunately GM had already sold millions of AM> trucks that were the subject of NBC's 'investigation'. I expect they sold them without the bomb installed that NBC used? :-) MG> Mercedes' traction control is called ASR and is part of ESP, as well MG> as ABS (anti lock braking) is. AM> Chevrolet calls theirs ASR also; Acceleration Slip Regulation. ASR in Mercedes-german spells 'Antriebsschlupfregelung'. Says the same. AM> They may be watching Mercedes on this as the Active Handling is AM> also being included on the '98 Corvettes. ABS has been standard AM> equipment on all Chevrolets since 1994. ABS as standard is coming on more and more cars here. MG> In fact the new swatch car 'smart', developed by Mercedes, that was MG> planned to go on sale in march 98 was scheduled to october 98 one of MG> these days. Official statement is that the quality is not satisfactory MG> and there are some weakness' in the driving behaviour, but it is known MG> that prototypes not only tilted in the elk test but also rolled over MG> their own nose when braking hard. AM> Now that is embarrasing! You would have thought this would have AM> been eliminated before building the first prototype, after computer AM> simulations. To complete it: it can be tilted even when acceleration hard from a stand still on a very steep hill. Mercedes comes into problems with that, as after the A-Class magazines will really test that little beast and it should better pass the tests... MG> ...Commercial Jets have a blackbox, so do most blondes. AM> I guess peroxide burns! ;^) Consider this tagline snagged. --- Feel free to use it, I stole it myself :-) cu .\\arc ...A mind is a terrible thing to ... er ... hmmmm? --- * Origin: sympathy for the debil (2:270/47) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1100079 Date: 12/31/97 From: MARC GERGES Time: 10:17pm \/To: BILL MITCHELL (Read 0 times) Subj: REVERSE QUESTION Salut Bill! MG> You don't have a real test? Here to car is driven on a test MG> bed and checked. If the brakes don't pass a certain minimum MG> and are even on both sides, they fail. BM> I was only describing the emergency brake test, I didn't mention BM> either the service brake test nor the fact that while all this is BM> happening they are also testing how equal the braking is and how BM> much there is. A-ha... that's imho the important bit about the brake testing. BM>> A failure on the brake tests can, in the inspector's BM>> judgement, result in the vehicle being declared unsafe BM>> rather than just the ordinary failed inspection sticker used BM>> for other test failures, MG> Seems correct to me. BM> Some time ago my 1959 Mercury Turnpike Crusier was declared unsafe BM> because the emergency brake would not hold the car against the BM> motor. I could not drive the car away from the test location even BM> though the service brakes passed. While that might have been BM> extreme, it was within his discression to do so. These things are here decided upon the general condition of the car and the credibility of the owner: if you're a car nut and your car is basically in good condition and you promise to fix it right the next day, they'll let you drive. If on the other hand your car made the trip to the control center without falling in parts by pure luck, it will probably stay there. BM> I simply, from years of experience, disagree with your statement BM> that parking brakes, aka emergency brakes, are not designed to stop BM> a vehicle, and are only designed to hold a vehicle from rolling. BM> They are not designed to be used in place of service brakes, but in BM> an emergency, they must be able to stop a vehicle. In the last days i played around with the parking brake a little bit to test it, and although mine (discs at the front) is far better than the one of my sister's car (drums at the back), there is a huge braking distance and considerable fading braking from a sluggish 40 to 0. I decided to do without at test at 90 or 100 mph... cu .\\arc ...A barking dog never bites - while he's barking. --- * Origin: sympathy for the debil (2:270/47) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1100080 Date: 12/31/97 From: MARC GERGES Time: 10:27pm \/To: ALAN MORRISON (Read 0 times) Subj: Vector Auto Salut Alan! AM> Is Nardi a banked oval or a road coarse? And do you know the AM> distance? MG> It is an oval, but I don't know the distance. AM> I recently read about Nurburgring, Silverstone, and others that AM> have anywhere from 2.3 to over 5 miles of track; quite large. Attention: at Nrburgring there is the so called 'GP circuit' and the famous 'Nordschleife', 14 miles long and a real test for car and driver. If you make that under ten minutes, be proud of yourself... AM> Daytona is an oval, but it is also rerouted through a series of AM> infield turns for PSR roadracing events. I knew about the oval, but not the infield. AM> If the FIA comes to Daytona next year, it may be a good place to AM> test for top speed, as it is a large, high-banked oval. MG> The FIA GT will race in america? Didn't know about that... AM> These may be FIA cars that can meet ProSportscar Racing rules. They AM> have made efforts to close the gap in differences in recent years AM> including changing the sanctioning bodies name from IMSA to PSR and AM> trying to create an alliance with the FIA. Perhaps an attempt to AM> allow race teams to more easily compete in each others events AM> without the need to finance a separate team of cars. What exactly are the PSR cars? Engines like the Porsche 911 GT1, the McLaren F1 or completely different? MG> I'll keep that in mind... february is quite a boring month here, MG> formula 1 starts in march. AM> February is known as race month at Daytona Int'l Raceway. Several AM> different sanctioning bodies have events there, including NASCAR, AM> PSR, and also motorcycle racing. NASCAR are those huge street car lookalikes, right? MG> BTW: many of the numbers stated here are like '14.5 at 102' MG> or so... could anybody tell me what that's about? MG> Drag racing isn't popular here at all - I don't know of a single MG> drag strip here in europe. Some events are at race courses, but it's MG> really nothing... I guess a single touring car race attracts more MG> spectators than a whole drag racing season here. AM> It is catching on in Japan, but the attraction may not be evident AM> on a televised event. You have to be there in person to get the AM> feel of the power and excitement of 300 mph in under 5 seconds. A AM> breath of alcohol and burning rubber may be a part of it too! I have to admit that I prefer racing on TV... you can see the whole circuit, the driver's view, the actual lap times and especially rain races are funnier on TV. Can live without the burning rubber :) MG> That's what here in europe is normally associated with the term MG> 'dragster'. Long, skinny tires at the front, huge ones at the rear, MG> an engine and a driver inbetween... :) AM> Yes this is a dragster; It used to be called 'Top Fuel Dragster'. AM> The driver was moved in front of the engine by Don Garlits, who AM> noted that exhaust flames and clutch explosions weren't something AM> you wanted in front of you. That's a point :) AM> Don Garlits was instrumental in the success of drag racing here AM> since the 1950's, always preferring the Chrysler Hemi design which AM> has not been dethroned by even OHC 4 valve setups. Did anybody on these machines experiment with 4 or more driven wheels instead of two? AM> to see a Top Fuel drag race in person, GO. The power of these AM> behemoths shake the ground and quicken your pulse. The power is AM> currently estimated (calculated) to be in the neighborhood of 6,000 AM> horsepower. That's about 733 horsepower per liter... MG> Sounds interesting to check it out when I have the possibility to... MG> but I have to admit I prefer it when cars not only have the power to MG> go as fast as possible straight ahead, but are also able to drive MG> round curves. AM> We don't see much of European racing here except F1. Occasionally AM> there may be a German Touring Car race, or a Rallye on ESPN2 or AM> other dedicated sports channel on satellite. Right now the Formalu 1 starts to get real boring, with those new profiled tires, smaller cars etc... but it's fun sometimes, and I enjoyed Jaques Villeneuve catching the title last season. MG> Still, I have to see it to make an opinion. AM> It is different; more an engineering exercise to extract the most AM> power from an engine and apply it for acceleration. That's why I wonder if there are no cars with 4WD or the like. Or completely different approaches, maybe jet engines... if the goal is nothing but best acceleration, two big wheels can't be everything... AM> Still there are other types of racing like road courses, and a AM> third, oval track or speedway racing. I see Indycar races from time to time, simply because they are aired live in the evening here in europe. Except for the ovals, it's like F1. AM> This developed throughout the small towns that wanted to have AM> local drivers compete in a small grandstand environment like might AM> be found in the average township. It has grown to become one of AM> the most highly watched motorsports on TV with Superspeedways like AM> Daytona, and Talledega and large corporate sponsorship. The hobby drivers here often drive rallies... it's relatively cheap and fun. cu .\\arc ...Old immortals never die. They just... don't. --- * Origin: sympathy for the debil (2:270/47)