--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1100021 Date: 12/31/97 From: ROY J. TELLASON Time: 11:53am \/To: MARK LOGSDON (Read 0 times) Subj: Battery Terminals Mark Logsdon wrote in a message to Roy J. Tellason: RJ> RT> I've seen the cable ends with steel, mostly on smaller vehicles RJ> RT> of foreign manufacturers (used to be foreign anyhow), yet RJ> RT> I've never seen a battery with steel, such as George (Curious RJ> RT> George) asked about. RJ> RJ> Actually, those are plated copper. Look at one that's gotten all RJ> corroded up, the powder there is *green*, typical of copper RJ> sulfate... ML> Do you mean copper plated on to something else or something ML> else plated on to copper? I hope the latter. :) Yeah, the latter. I think that they're copper, plated with nickel (?) to avoid surface corrosion. email: roy.j.tellason%tanstaaf@frackit.com --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-432-0764 (1:270/615) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1100022 Date: 12/31/97 From: ROY J. TELLASON Time: 11:55am \/To: GARY SPRINZL (Read 0 times) Subj: Electrical loads, battery Gary Sprinzl wrote in a message to Jay Emrie: JE> Well, Roy, I CAN read. The label says "550 CCA @ 0 degrees/ 750 CCA @ 32 JE> degrees". GS> It's a typo then :) CA is measured at 32 fahrenheit, and GS> CCA is measured at 0 F. Either that or they're being deliberately misleading, and putting that higher number on there as a marketing gimmick. I've seen that done before... email: roy.j.tellason%tanstaaf@frackit.com --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-432-0764 (1:270/615) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1100023 Date: 12/31/97 From: ROY J. TELLASON Time: 12:08pm \/To: JAY EMRIE (Read 0 times) Subj: 1994 Ply Battery Drain JAY EMRIE wrote in a message to ALL: JE> Well, My brother John's Father-in-law "Pappy" has had a JE> recurrence of an old problem. They left the car sit for 4 days JE> over Christmas while they made a trip to Dallas in John's motor JE> home to visit John's grandkids. JE> The morning after they got back the 1994 Plymouth 3.0 V6 JE> Caravan's battery was DEAD. Now Pappy is getting very senile, JE> not remembering, not remembering correctly, getting very JE> confused, etc. He called John when the van wouldn't start the JE> morning after they returned. John could find NOTHING left on. JE> We have no way of knowing whether Pappy turned anything off in JE> trying to start the van or not. He tends to start turning, JE> moving switches when something like this befuddles him. Makes JE> diagnosis difficult. I can just picture this, having had some experiences with similar havior... JE> Anyhow, John charged the battery (only 4 months old) up enough JE> to start the Van, then they took a LONG drive to charge the JE> battery up. It was up to 13.3 V when I went over yesterday JE> (still needed a bit more charging). When was this voltage measured? While running? Right after it was shut off? After it'd been sitting for a while? JE> I measured the current drain and found 32.5 ma draw with JE> everything off we could think of. Opened the driver's door and JE> the drain went up to 75 ma. This vehicle has a switch that JE> turns the dome light OFF so that it does not come on when the JE> door is opened so the dome light wasn't the cause of the JE> increased drain. The door switch is activating SOMETHING, but JE> what we haven't figured out. Does it have one of those noisemakers that goes active when you leave the key in and open the door? JE> Complicating things even more. With the door shut, every JE> once in a while (3-5 minutes of so) the current would have a JE> quick surge (I use a digital meter) to an indeterminate amount JE> (but less than 200 ma - my meter limit or the fuse would blow). JE> I suspicion that is the clock built into the radio, but do not JE> understand why it could be. Could be computer stuff, too. JE> There is a fuse under the hood that the owner's manual says to JE> pull for longer term vehicle non use. One would thing that this JE> would isolate all current drain. With that fuse pulled the JE> battery drain drops to less than 2 ma. Pulling ALL of the fuses JE> AND relays in the engine compartment one at a time till ALL are JE> out does not eliminate this 2 ma drain. Still sounds like computer stuff here. JE> Summary: JE> 1. .075 A over say 100-112 hours (4+ days) is only 7.5 to 8.4 JE> Amp hours, hardly enough to drain the battery as dead as it JE> was. Yep. *IF* that was the only drain, and *IF* that battery is okay. JE> 2. Something is drawing 2 ma with ALL fuses and relays in the JE> under hood fuse panel pulled (presumably this totally isolates JE> the van interior and everything else for that matter). JE> 3. Something is drawing 32.5 ma with apparantly nothing on. JE> 4. When the driver's door is opened, something increases the JE> drain to 75 ma. Pull the battery terminal if you want to be sure! JE> 5. Worse yet, something is SOMETIMES completely draining the JE> battery in about 4 days. JE> 6. Worst yet, as this has happened before (one reason for the JE> recent battery replacement) it is a very intermittently JE> recurring happening and very disturbing to an 84 year old man, JE> and very puzzling to two other younger old men. JE> Not having a wiring diargram we are somewhat asea. Tracing all JE> the internal wiring is an impossibility. JE> I've fussed at John repeatedly for not buying the Factory shop JE> manuals, but he is too tight - says Pappy bought the extended JE> warranty, and that should have taken care of it. Famous last JE> words! JE> Any CONCRETE suggestions would be appreciated. You said that the battery had been replaced recently (months?). I've seen a number of instances where a vehicle (particularly those!) had a battery put in by a dealer that was somewhat less than what was called for. The Caravans that I can remember mostly wanted 500 or so CCA, and I usually stuck a 525 in there. I remember seeing some dealer replacements where they put a 400 CCA battery in there. I'd check a BCI book if possible to see what that particular vehicle calls for, if you get the chance. The other thing is, from about the mid-eighties onward Chrysler put a group 34 battery in just about everything. I guess they got some cost benefits by going with only one size. When we had to replace one of these in a van, pickup, or those minivans, we'd stick a group _24_ in there. Same sorts of CCA ratings, but they were just a little taller, a bit less than an inch. And a whole lot more reliable. The only time this was a problem was when the 24s they sent us had the posts along the center line of the battery (what they called a "24T") as some years the wires wouldn't quite reach without undoing some wire ties and such, and some wouldn't reach at all. Finally, there was one situation I remember where they said that the vehicle wouldn't start, and I ended up going over there with a battery and cables and such to try and get them to the store, and it started right off. Their rear window wiper and washer also started running, and they couldn't turn it off. Some sort of weird electrical system problem, and I guess they had to get that fixed. Was his back window especially clean? :-) Anyhow, you may be looking at an intermittent electrical problem like that of some sort. JE> * OLX 2.1 TD * Why are there Interstate Highways in Hawaii??? Because they went after federal funds like everybody else did... email: roy.j.tellason%tanstaaf@frackit.com --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-432-0764 (1:270/615) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1100024 Date: 12/31/97 From: ROY J. TELLASON Time: 12:19pm \/To: SUE MERRINER (Read 0 times) Subj: 1970 Dodge Dart Swinger SUE MERRINER wrote in a message to ROY J. TELLASON: -> MSGID: 1:270/615.0 4a4655ee -> PID: timEd 1.01 No need to quote ^ that stuff... -> SUE MERRINER wrote in a message to ROY J. TELLASON: -> -> SM> 1970 Dodge Dart Swinger with rebuilt 318 engine. Excellent -> -> SM> condition. no e-check necessary. leave e-mail for -> -> SM> sue.merriner@insanitybbs.com if interested. -> -> Heh. I had one of those, nice car... -> SM> If you're interested in owning another one, this one is for -> SM> sale. -> I wouldn't mind having another one, but am not really in the market for -> another vehicle at this point in time. Plus I don't have any place -> to put it, nor do I have the option of the time to mess with it, -> since I've got this truck I'm building... -> Besides, it's in Ohio and I'm not, and you don't mention a price. -> Two-door, I presume? SM> Yes, 2 door and completely rebuilt. Bummer, I liked the 4-door one I had (a '75) better. SM> So you shouldn't have to do anything to it. Where are you? South central PA, near Harrisburg (though I'm actually in York county). And you still don't mention a price. email: roy.j.tellason%tanstaaf@frackit.com --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-432-0764 (1:270/615) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1100025 Date: 12/31/97 From: ROY J. TELLASON Time: 12:24pm \/To: ALAN MORRISON (Read 0 times) Subj: Motor Trend, bribes? Alan Morrison wrote in a message to Roy J. Tellason: -=> Quoting Roy J. Tellason to Don Lewis <=- RW>... Chevrolet Blazer, Motor Trend 1995 Truck of the year. CZ> ... Motor Trend, General Motors 1995 Magazine of the Year. DL> The Chevy Vega was also the Car of the Year, RJT> You're kidding, right? We owned one of those, once. This guy I RJT> knew at the time called it the only car GM made that would rust on RJT> the showroom floor. AM> Hey, I had one of them too, no rust though. A 6 year old Vega AM> GT Kammback wagon. Wasn't a bad little car, right up there AM> with the '78 Datsun B210 I got later. I forget what year ours was, but it had the aluminum block *without* the sleeves in 'em. Used quite a bit of oil after a while. Wasn't bad for driving, and we even took it across country one time, on a trip that ended up running about 7750 miles altogether. Though I'll never do *THAT* again in a car that small. It started to show wear when we had a couple of teenagers in the house learning how to drive. Eventually it got to the point where the driver's door needed to be tied shut, as that little post that was supposed to do the job was hanging at a rather odd angle... AM> The Datsun was actually cheaper feeling as it rattled and had AM> very poor materials in the interior. The Vega always ran good AM> but did eat a clutch before 100,000 miles (my first stick shift AM> car). Still it was the second best car I owned for less than AM> $500; the best being a '66 Impala SS. Now *there* is a car with some room in it! I met a guy recently who had a '65 Impala, and when he popped the hood on that puppy I knew exactly what I was looking at, all over that engine compartment. Big change from most of the newer stuff... email: roy.j.tellason%tanstaaf@frackit.com --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-432-0764 (1:270/615) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1100026 Date: 12/31/97 From: ROY J. TELLASON Time: 12:33pm \/To: MARK LOGSDON (Read 0 times) Subj: Laser stops cars Mark Logsdon wrote in a message to Roy J. Tellason: ML> Now, how you do you get a high powered EMF signal into engine ML> control system so that it is of sufficient magnitude to effect ML> susceptibility? That proves to be a challenge. I was actually thinking more along the lines of something that would be mounted at the rear of a vehicle that would tend to discourage pursuit... :-) Wouldn't signal leak through a grill somewhat? ML> One possibility would be to place a transmitting antenna on the ML> road surface and somehow get it underneath the engine ML> compartment where there is little shielding (no metal hood ML> below). This might be okay for a one-time use, perhaps. ML> Perhaps the car would run over the antenna from the front or ML> perhaps the antenna could have its own propulsion system to get ML> it under the target vehicle. The latter sounds more like Buck ML> Rogers. :) This part reminds me of some movie I saw once where a small RC car was driven underneath a vehicle with a bomb on it, with typical hollywood results. :-) ML> Another way of getting a signal into the engine compartment ML> would be the brute force method of radiating a high powered EMF ML> at the hood. "At the hood" seems to imply that you're aiming this thing from overhead, though. What about from the front? ML> Some signal at some frequency will penetrate the hood. If ML> you're familiar with "slot" antennas, you know that ML> discontinuities in a current-carrying conductive surface can ML> cause the radiation of a signal. This particularly true if the ML> discontinuity (such as the outside of the hood) is near a ML> multiple fraction of the resonant frequency of the current. ML> The current, of course, would come from a nearby transmitter. ML> As I said, this is the brute force method, but since it is ML> possible I thought I'd mention it. I wonder how much microwave power it'd take to have something at the back of your car? ML> Here is a word on generating the high powered signal. If the ML> intent was to create permanent damage to the engine control ML> system, then the EMF signal would presumably be a very high ML> powered pulse. In other words, it would have a very high peak ML> power for a very short period of time. On the other hand, if ML> the intent was to affect engine performance, then the EMF would ML> be either continuous wave or a repetitive series of pulses. Suppose the intent was to discourage pursuit? :-) ML> How do you protect against such effects? You'd use the typical ML> approach of shielding and bonding of harnesses, sensors, and ML> enclosures. That can be expensive and labor intensive, but it ML> must be done correctly. I remember seeing something once (Amateur Radio Handbook? I forget where it was...) where they showed the whole distributor enclosed in a metal can, and braided shielding over each of the ignition wires. This was supposed to cut down on ignition noise. I can't say I've ever felt ambitious enough to want to try this one, though. ML> The other approach would be to prevent against damage or ML> susceptibility after the EMF signal does enter the harnesses or ML> enclosures. This would entail the use of transient protection ML> devices or filters. ML> The above information is well known to the military and ML> aerospace community. There has been a lot of research into the ML> effects and protecting against electromangetic pulse (EMP) and ML> high intensity radiated fields (HIRF), and some of the specific ML> details are classified. ML> There is also an issue of HERO or hazards of electromagnetic ML> radiation to ordnance. Ordnance are explosives. No military ML> pilot wants his weapons to activate or a fuse to ignite when ML> his aircraft is bombarded with EMF. ML> There is also the possibility of a fuel tank being ignited due ML> to high currents. This is called HERF or hazards of ML> electromagnetic radiation to fuel. This is not only a concern ML> with lightning but also with radiated fields as the name ML> suggests. Wouldn't the law enforcement agency have egg on its ML> face if it's "pulse weapon" exploded a fuel tank rather than ML> simply disabling the engine of a fleeing vehicle? I'm not ML> saying it's likely, but if it happens, then momma call out the ML> lawyers! I don't even think about that sort of stuff much since I don't have a mil-spec budget... :-) email: roy.j.tellason%tanstaaf@frackit.com --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-432-0764 (1:270/615) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1100027 Date: 12/31/97 From: KENNY HENDERSON Time: 03:55pm \/To: JASON WEDEHASE (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: cool cop cars JW> The Ford dealer over here has a 97 Cobra with functional cowl JW>induction and Vortech supercharger power. It was rated at 435HP, but JW>had the nice touch of custom 18" wheels (Concept Neeper) and all black. JW>The hood was sheet metal, at that! $32K Is it a Saleen? Are they selling it with a waranty? --- * OLX 2.1 TD * There's always something more to learn... the hard way! --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: Fresh Start BBS * Edison NJ * (732) 248-1678 * (1:107/310.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1100028 Date: 12/31/97 From: KENNY HENDERSON Time: 03:58pm \/To: JASON WEDEHASE (Read 0 times) Subj: Forced Induction JW> What if I argue that with my V8.... I can out accelerate your JW>Eclipse, I have a higher top speed, but in addition, with my car being a JW>Firebird, or whatever, I can also out corner and out brake you. Your JW>Eclipse has one advantage. Economy. I feel that is highly outweighed JW>by the advantages of a V8. JW> Also, as a side note, the best way to accelerate is NOT to spin JW>the tires. Just because my V8 can spin the tires and perhaps your 4 JW>cyliner cant very easily doesnt mean that I am not accelerating harder JW>than you. My 50% beats your 100%, for example. This is all JW>hypothetical, of course, but very realistic. All good points, but I'd like to add to it. I don't see the Turbo Eclipse having a MPG advantage on me at all, 27 on the highway for me. I have spoke to a few people who newer Trans AM, with 2.73s some have gotten 30mphg cruising at 70 mph, though 28 is normal for them. --- * OLX 2.1 TD * There's always the temptation to let other people think y --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: Fresh Start BBS * Edison NJ * (732) 248-1678 * (1:107/310.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1100029 Date: 12/31/97 From: KENNY HENDERSON Time: 04:01pm \/To: C.A. KLINGEL (Read 0 times) Subj: Todd Jaspers: M.I.A.? CK> I picked up a Cobra short block from my friendly Ford dealer. I kept CK> my stock cam with my 1.7's. How much was it? CK> My deepthroat source said the cam to get was the 87-early 88 cam used CK> in the speed density 'stangs. The lift specs are the same as my cam CK> but the rate of lift is quicker. Ford slowed it down due to noise CK> and durability concerns. It's worth 3-5 over the later cam. The bad CK> news is that you can't buy it as a service part. It was superseded by CK> the "soft" cam. That would make sense. We both know the '87-'88s had a bit more power for whatever reason from the factory. CK> Whoa...got long winded there, but I figured you would want the whole CK> picture. :) I did the complete gig from the clutch to radiator, and CK> down to the motor mounts. I did throw a windage tray in while I had the CK> bottom end staring me in the face. I know Jeg's, Summitt, Ramchargers, CK> and my Ford dealer had a good November and December. ;-) And your charge card company loves yah too! CK> Santa bring the Firebird anything for Christmas? My Eibach Springs should come Monday or Tuesday. Just floor mats, waxes tec. --- * OLX 2.1 TD * There's many a slip 'twixt the book and the script. --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: Fresh Start BBS * Edison NJ * (732) 248-1678 * (1:107/310.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: F1100030 Date: 12/30/97 From: JAY EMRIE Time: 09:28pm \/To: JOHN RANGER (Read 0 times) Subj: ....walkin 'round IN WOME JR>Hello all! JR>We got HIT last night with a Noreaster storm...that I had the Great luck o JR> to DRIVE thru. JR>I have the Defrosting Grid on the back window and it seems that like Windshe JR>Wipers, JR>The Manny makes some of these better than others. JR>I have seen cars that you just look at the controls and the Blades KICK in a JR>n others, Like my Bonny...you ask Nicely first. It may. JR>These Defrost grids use 12Vdc....is that as much as they can handle? JR>Would they not Kick a little bit faster in if they started at lets say, 18 v Where do you think you would get the 18V from???? * OLX 2.1 TD * Why don't stutterers stutter when they sing OR whisper? --- RemoteAccess 2.50+ * Origin: Northern Lights! * San Antonio * 210-499-6299 V34/VFC (1:387/23)