--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGW00026 Date: 12/24/97 From: ALAN MORRISON Time: 05:48pm \/To: SEAN DUNBAR (Read 0 times) Subj: Mobil SpeedPass -=> Quoting Sean Dunbar to Alan Morrison <=- AM> Speedpass is an electronic payment method that allows motorists to AM> pull into the gas station, pump gas, and then drive off without AM> worrying about running in to pay the cashier or swiping a credit card SD> They just installed this at the Mobil I always use (can't beat 99 SD> cents a gallon around here). SD> Also, I work for the company that does the support for the Shell SD> credit card machines. We also develop some of the software that SD> actually runs the computerized gas pumps. I haven't been into a Mobil in a while, so I don't know if they are here or not. Maybe I'll stop in and check on that. So do you do any of the software development yourself, or are you in a different position? --- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR] * Origin: River Canyon Rd. BBS Chattanooga, Tn (1:362/627) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGW00027 Date: 12/24/97 From: ALAN MORRISON Time: 05:50pm \/To: KENNY HENDERSON (Read 0 times) Subj: BMW vs Corvette -=> Quoting Kenny Henderson to Alan Morrison <=- AM> '98 Suggested Retail prices on the Supra Turbo at $39,574. The AM> M3 is $39,700, and the C5 is 37,495. KH> Hmm. I'd have to take the Supra Turbo:) AM>While it is fast and somewhat reasonably priced, since the price drop; AM>I just can't get used to the headlights and that spoiler off a 70 Dodge AM>Daytona! KH> I think I have to change my previous statement, I think I'd opt for KH> the C5:) You're fickle Kenny! :-) But that's OK, I know they all have their merits and drawbacks. The Supra look has never grown on me, like some cars do after you've seen them a while. The new Camaro nose was quite ugly to me when I first saw it, but it looks a little better now that I've seen one other than in a magazine. The same is true for the C5 tail, it is huge, but I think they should put a small horizontal strip on each side to break up the space. This would make it look much smaller, rather than actually making it smaller and reducing trunk space and increasing drag. The new Camaro nose is another matter; the headlights are OK but that huge snout which is mostly blocked anyway, needs to be smaller IMO. --- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR] * Origin: River Canyon Rd. BBS Chattanooga, Tn (1:362/627) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGW00028 Date: 12/24/97 From: ALAN MORRISON Time: 06:00pm \/To: TOM WALKER (Read 0 times) Subj: Chevy Impala -=> Quoting TOM WALKER to ALAN MORRISON <=- -> designation with the xx400 being the 4.0 liter V8 engined versions, a -> the xx450's being the 4.5 liter 6. TW> Since the Lexus 450 is just a Fancied up Toyota Land Cruiser with a TW> softer suspension I can assure that the old Chev 6 Cylinder(Much TW> Improved of course) is NOT in the works for any other Lexus. The You're a funny guy, Tom. -> AM> There are more Japanese V8's coming though and this model may have -> switched or made one an option. Somebody has a 1.6 liter DOHC V8, can't -> remember if it was Honda or VW. -> KH> It might be Suzuki. I just read about it in one of my magazines: TW> Many, Many years ago when there was a World Class for Racing 50 CC TW> Motorcycles(that "is" Cubic Centimeters I am talking about) HONDA TW> produced a 50 Cubic Centimeter V-8 Racing engine for their motorcycle. Honda's weird. People used to claim a 4 cylinder was more efficient as an 8 cylinder had too much drag! Honda's oval piston monstrosity, (that fit into a loophole in the racing rules) is another example... But it won them some races, even if the expense required was of little use for production vehicles. I saw a V8 made up from two 4 cylinder motorcycle engines at the NHRA world finals in Pomona one year. It was a handmade block from aluminum with either Suzuki or Yamaha cylinders and heads. BTW, there are some companies that build small Chevy V8 models that will start and run, even though they look like a shrunken 327. I guess some COX .049's could be stuck together to make an air cooled one, but these look like water cooled castings. --- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR] * Origin: River Canyon Rd. BBS Chattanooga, Tn (1:362/627) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGW00029 Date: 12/24/97 From: ALAN MORRISON Time: 06:12pm \/To: KENNY HENDERSON (Read 0 times) Subj: cool cop cars -=> Quoting Kenny Henderson to Alan Morrison <=- KH> No traction control for me. It was an option, but mine doesn't have KH> it. AM>I prefer to control my own traction thank you! :-) But if it snowed AM>much and the wife/GF had to drive, I would insist on it. KH> The GF would never ever ever ever drive the Formula in anything less KH> then a sunny day:) Smart man... as JB said, some men don't like to be taken for a ride. I had a girl ask me to drive my Monza in '93 when we had that huge snow. It was the most snow here in my lifetime, and I only drove it cause I had to, and didn't want to risk putting the Z in a ditch (or somebody's car). I politely told her we could go get her car if she wanted to drive in the snow. The light rear of the V8 Monza sometimes likes to swap ends after a little sprinkle, but I'm used to the quick opening Holley and can feather it a bit. Her front driver 4 banger is a totally different animal. --- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR] * Origin: River Canyon Rd. BBS Chattanooga, Tn (1:362/627) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGW00030 Date: 12/24/97 From: ALAN MORRISON Time: 06:27pm \/To: ROY WITT (Read 0 times) Subj: BMW vs Corvette -=> Quoting Roy Witt to Alan Morrison <=- AM> a 301, and it was made by putting the 283 crankshaft in a 327 block. AM> This ended up with 301.66 cubic inch with the 4" bore and 3" stroke. RW> The 302 began a production run in 67 and was superceded by the 350 in RW> the 69 model. BTW, the 69 model also was sold as the 70 model until Yes, I've since seen a '67 302 listed... I just never saw one AFAIK. I used to look on the front fender for side marker lamps ('68 model) and the engine plaque there. BTW, the '69 Z-28 still had the 302 engine available. RW> February of 1970, when the 70 1/2, 2nd generation body was introduced. Yep, the unique 70 1/2 could be identified by the old style rear spoiler, which blended down the side after that. RW> The 327 also met it's demise the same year, as they introduced the 307 RW> in 69. The 327's bore was 4.002, which made the 3" de-stroked 327 RW> closer to 302 than you think, 301.89ci.... Some 327's were sold in '69; their last year, but 350's were also sold. But that 4.002" bore is generally still a four inch block, it's just a couple thousandths bigger for clearance if it runs forged pistons. The pistons are still 4 inches so calculate the bore if you prefer... either way it's a 302! AM> You could also order a dual-quad, cross-ram intake setup for racing, AM> which is one of the rarest options found on the '69 302 Z/28. RW> If it was short-lived as an option, it meant that the factory guys RW> doing the racing and testing didn't think much of it. That cross-ram RW> wasn't worth the money you had to pay for it because the 4bbl version RW> would run right with it. As usual there is a tradeoff... Less bottom end torque, but more HP up top. A short track (and street) would prefer the single 4 barrel, but a high speed circuit (and resale value) are the good points to the dual quad cross-ram. --- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR] * Origin: River Canyon Rd. BBS Chattanooga, Tn (1:362/627) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGW00031 Date: 12/24/97 From: ALAN MORRISON Time: 06:43pm \/To: ROY WITT (Read 0 times) Subj: Electrical loads, battery -=> Quoting Roy Witt to Alan Morrison <=- AM> in stating what I meant... You need some voltage to initiate a field AM> in the alternator, meaning it wouldn't push-start unless it had a AM> battery with some amount of voltage. RW> If you look at a schematic of an internally regulated alternator, RW> you'll see a self-excitation circuit. I've seen one, as a matter of fact I dissected one to see what was in there. It appears to circulate a minute amount of current all the time, unless the varistor shuts it down at high temps. I suspected it might help protect a battery from freezing a few extra degrees, but I have never had this explained to me. Look at the circuit and tell me what you think... Wouldn't it allow a small current flow even with the switch off? Which part allows the alternator to excite it's own field when it has zero voltage?? --- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR] * Origin: River Canyon Rd. BBS Chattanooga, Tn (1:362/627) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGW00032 Date: 12/24/97 From: ALAN MORRISON Time: 06:52pm \/To: JAY EMRIE (Read 0 times) Subj: Battery sizes -=> Quoting JAY EMRIE to ALAN MORRISON <=- JE> One wxploded in front of a parts house. The poor guy had just JE> opened the hood enough for the engine compartment light to come on. JE> Wonder why either of those blew up? JE> Alan, I know exactly WHY a battery "explosion" occurs. Seems rather JE> far fetched that arcing from a starter would cause battery gasses to JE> ignite, considering the distance from the starter underneath the engine JE> to the battery up front and close to the hood. That is what I meant by JE> "why". My apologies Jay! I thought surely you knew hydrogen gas was produced, but I misunderstood your question. JE> The other case, the hood being opened, turned on the hood light, which JE> most likely was activated by a mercury switch (which is enclosed). JE> That's the other why. I could see the light hydrogen gas rising to the top of the engine compartment and being ignited by a poor (arcing) connection. The other one would require a lot of gas on a GM type starter near the bottom, perhaps less on the Ford ones, mounted near the battery. BTW, it's OK to edit out the rest of my post, that isn't needed for a response... (Especially the stupid parts!) ;^) --- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR] * Origin: River Canyon Rd. BBS Chattanooga, Tn (1:362/627) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGW00033 Date: 12/24/97 From: ALAN MORRISON Time: 06:59pm \/To: JAY EMRIE (Read 0 times) Subj: Battery Terminals -=> Quoting JAY EMRIE to ALAN MORRISON <=- AM> CGM> Why do cars now have battery terminals made of steel instead of AM> CGM> lead, as in the old days (I'm referring to top terminals, not AM>Steel is very cheap, and it takes much less of it to hold the same force. AM>The part I dislike is that it will corrode and fail sooner. The old lead AM>ones would last longer than the cable if not abused. JE> Alan, I'm not so sure about that. The steel clamps I have seen seem to JE> be plated with something that resists corrosion. Since steel and lead JE> have virtually the same conductance IF steel could be made to be less JE> corrosive steel would be a good metal to use, simply because the JE> steel terminals rely upon spring tension to clamp on the battery JE> terminal. Lead doesn't have much of that quality. I agree with that to a point. It probably will remain in service for a decade or more. But I see many claimed good ideas that last most owners the life of their vehicle, which may only be 8-10 years before they get something else. Having plated metals near a source of acid just doesn't strike me as a good idea. If you notice, most wheel cleaners are not recommended for plated wheels when strong acids or alkalis are used. On the other hand, lead (as you say) doesn't handle much overtightening as it would fatigue easily. A thin plated one would not handle much overtightening well either, but with spring tension the weak part would probably be the spring itself. Bottom line is to see how well they last, and what quality of materials they are made of. --- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR] * Origin: River Canyon Rd. BBS Chattanooga, Tn (1:362/627) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGW00034 Date: 12/24/97 From: ALAN MORRISON Time: 07:25pm \/To: MARC GERGES (Read 0 times) Subj: Active Handling -=> Quoting Marc Gerges to Alan Morrison <=- AM> November, 1997-- Buyers of the Chevrolet Corvette will soon be able to AM> take delivery of a car equipped with an Active Handling system, but AM> forget about equipping it with magnesium wheels. Standard on export- AM> market Corvettes, the $3,000 wheels were more popular with U.S. buyers AM> than Chevrolet expected. Demand far outstripped supply, so they've been AM> deleted from the 1998 Corvette option list. MG> Very intelligent decision - we don't have enough of them to sell them MG> to everybody, so we won't sell them at all :) I think they are just reserved for the export models (standard equipment), at least until production increases over demand. AM> The good news, however, is the availability of Active Handling, which AM> goes into production in mid-December. Active Handling is designed to eep AM> the overzealous Corvette pilot from spinning into a ditch. Aggressive AM> drivers, fear not. Engineers have kept you in mind while designing the AM> system. Unlike other stability enhancement systems, this one keeps the AM> driver who knows what he's doing in control. MG> Sounds to me like the EPS system, now standard on the A-Class Mercedes MG> after it failed that test. In fact here in europe all major companies MG> are checking if they should put it as option or standard feature on MG> their cars, now that a relatively cheap car has it as standard feature. Mercedes ESP (Electronic Slip Protection) sounds more like GM's ASR (Acceleration Slip Regulation) which when activated reduces throttle opening on the 'drive-by-wire' Corvette, and also may retard ignition timing to reduce wheelspin. The Active Handling System is a different and new system entirely, and which I'm not completely familiar with the details of how it works. It most likely alters steering input or geometry to help reduce oversteer for overzealous drivers who enter a turn too hot. GM acquired Lotus partly for its active suspension R&D, which has seen some use in the more upscale models such as Cadillac and now Corvette. I had seen some reference to Mercedes also doing some development in this area but admit I tend to read more about affordable sporty cars than the upscale luxury makes. Is it true that Mercedes has many affordably priced models in Europe? They tend to be in the $40k to over $130k here. MG> ! Origin: sympathy for the debil (2:270/47.1) Are you posting from Luxembourg? --- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR] * Origin: River Canyon Rd. BBS Chattanooga, Tn (1:362/627) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGW00035 Date: 12/24/97 From: ALAN MORRISON Time: 08:02pm \/To: ROY WITT (Read 0 times) Subj: American Sports Car -=> Quoting Roy Witt to Kenny Henderson <=- TW>>> Not arguing that. Only that the Vette is NO LONGER the "King of TW>>> the Hill" KH>> Actually it was the ZR1 Corvette that was dubbed 'King of the Hill' RW>> Not anymore! The C5's faster... KH> Thats very debatable. It all depends on what numbers you believe. KH> The C5 is a much better all around car though, which more then makes KH> up for any shortcoming it has in power. RW> ZR1 0 to 60 times were 5.2 seconds. C5 0 to 60 is 4.96 seconds. The RW> ZR1 never posted better times nor skidpad numbers than the C5. Hey Roy, as is often the case, different year models got some different numbers. In '93 the 375 HP model also went to 405 HP (advertised). Here is what MT got on four different ZR-1's. YEAR HP @ RPM 0-60 1/4 @ MPH 60-0 SKIDPAD 1989 380 @ 6200 4.7 13.1 @ 110.0 125 .98 G 1990 375 @ 5800 4.4 12.8 @ 113.8 109 .90 --- A FAST one! --- ------------ 1993 405 @ 5800 5.2 13.6 @ 106.0 117 .92 1995 405 @ 5800 4.9 13.1 @ 112.0 105 .99 (Notice the poor linear and high lateral traction)^ 1997 345 @ 5600 4.7 13.3 @ 106.8 111 .94 The C5 is quicker than some, but it's less expensive than all ZR-1's... By 20 to 30 thousand dollars! Make mine a C5 please. :-) The ZR-1 still holds the 24 hour avg. top speed record of 175.88 MPH. (Interesting note - the 24 hours of Daytona is closer to 105 MPH average.) But I keep hearing about some exotic heads for future Vette's. If they can do an OHC multi-valve setup for about halfway between the ZR-1 and C5 price, while meeting Viper numbers it would sell... Ya' think? --- Blue Wave/386 v2.20 [NR] * Origin: River Canyon Rd. BBS Chattanooga, Tn (1:362/627)