--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGQ00034 Date: 12/20/97 From: MARK LOGSDON Time: 01:50pm \/To: ALAN MORRISON (Read 0 times) Subj: Active Handling AM> take delivery of a car equipped with an Active Handling system, but AM> forget about equipping it with magnesium wheels. Standard on export- AM> market Corvettes, the $3,000 wheels were more popular with U.S. buyers AM> than Chevrolet expected. Demand far outstripped supply, so they've been AM> deleted from the 1998 Corvette option list. Now just exactly what is it they're not telling us? They're selling too many wheels and making too much profit, so they're going to quit selling them. Yeah, uh huh. I have wonder why the supply has dried up. Bad design? Poor materials? Quality problems? Disgruntled supplier? --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0232 * Origin: IBMNet Connection - Indpls, IN - 317-882-5575 28.8 USR (1:231/1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGQ00035 Date: 12/20/97 From: MARK LOGSDON Time: 01:50pm \/To: ROY WITT (Read 0 times) Subj: American Sports Car RW> JW> Well, I guess that's one way to look at it. I'm RW> JW> curious... why does the Vette stop faster when the Viper hsa so RW> JW> much bigger a contact patch for braking? RW> RW> Ask Mopar! I think you'll find that the total braking area to weight RW> ratio comes into play. The C5 has what Bosch calls 4-channel ABS V RW> controls, which Dodge claims the Viper doesn't need, since it's a RW> no-frills sports car...their words, not mine. What do you guys mean by "contact area" and "total braking area?" If you mean the size of the brake pads to rotor, then I can see that. If you mean tire size to road, then I have a tougher time with it. I'd say better braking is often the ability to dissipate the heat generated due to friction. Maybe Viper has better heat transfer. --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0232 * Origin: IBMNet Connection - Indpls, IN - 317-882-5575 28.8 USR (1:231/1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGQ00036 Date: 12/20/97 From: MARK LOGSDON Time: 01:50pm \/To: TOM WALKER (Read 0 times) Subj: Battery sizes TW> -> TW> plates. TW> -> TW> -> Tax collectors. TW> TW> Here in California the Department of Motor Vehicles IS part of the TW> TAX COLLECTION system and has their Own Investigators and Prosecutors. TW> They do though have to use the Court system fortunately. But VERY few TW> beat them in Court. Yeah, I like to make the point that fees can be considered a "tax." Some people forget that. --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0232 * Origin: IBMNet Connection - Indpls, IN - 317-882-5575 28.8 USR (1:231/1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGQ00037 Date: 12/20/97 From: MARK LOGSDON Time: 01:50pm \/To: ROY WITT (Read 0 times) Subj: battery sizes RW> Pipe diameters are all screwed up, as there is no way to measure one RW> and say "that is 1/4" pipe.", without consulting a chart or have first RW> hand experience with handling pipe. For the uninitiated, looking in RW> that specifications chart and/or actually measuring what you have is RW> about the only way. I'd forgotten how wide of a spread there was on inside diameter until I got out one of my reference manuals and looked it up. I would certainly need a chart. :) --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0232 * Origin: IBMNet Connection - Indpls, IN - 317-882-5575 28.8 USR (1:231/1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGQ00038 Date: 12/20/97 From: MARK LOGSDON Time: 01:50pm \/To: MARC GERGES (Read 0 times) Subj: Battery sizes MG> ML> When you connect car A's battery to car B's (dead) battery, car B' MG> ML> battery draws a very large current. (For now let's assume that MG> ML> alternator A and its voltage regulator will not react.) MG> MG> Wrong assumption - as soon as the cables are set, car A's idle speed MG> shortly drops (and then is regulated by the injection pump). This shows MG> there is already a considerable amount of load on the alternator. I know it was a "wrong" assumption. Notice I said "For now let's assume...." That's because I knew it was not accurate. Here's the reason why I did it. We have a closed loop control system, i.e., a circuit with a feedback loop. A common method of studying the effects of feedback is to open the feedback loop and see what is being applied back to the input summing junction. In other words, if I apply an input, then what will happen to that output and what value will be returned as a correction signal? The older regulating systems were simple proportional (P) systems that had lots of deadband and/or hysteresis. The older systems had much more stead state error and had more difficulty dealing with overshoot. Now we use proportional-integral (PI) or proportional-integral-derivative (PID) loops that have little or no hysteresis. MG> ML> 75 A 100 A MG> ML> Alternator ---------> Battery ---------> Loads MG> ML> Does this make it clearer now? MG> MG> This sounds reasonable, but I tend to believe that the numbers you MG> stated are inaccurate. The battery will be strong enough to not let the MG> voltage drop enough so much the alternator is in danger. I didn't necessarily intend for the numbers to be accurate. I was trying to convey a concept. That's all. As for your second point, let's hope the battery will be strong enough. It depends on whether the battery was recently discharged due to starting its own engine and the overall condition of the battery. Maybe you're using one old marginal battery to jump another old but fully discharged battery. Listen. I'm not saying this sort of thing will happen all of the time, nor am I saying it's common. I'm just saying it *CAN* happen and *WHY.* Unlike some people I'm careful to not say *NEVER* or *ALWAYS*. --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0232 * Origin: IBMNet Connection - Indpls, IN - 317-882-5575 28.8 USR (1:231/1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGQ00039 Date: 12/20/97 From: MARK LOGSDON Time: 01:50pm \/To: JAY EMRIE (Read 0 times) Subj: Battery sizes JE> PH> This is primarily because the stationary alternator now acts as a l JE> PH> resistance "shunt regulator" with a forward voltage of between two JE> PH> three volts depending on circuit parameters. The 6 forward biased JE> PH> alternator diodes in series parallel are rated at around 200V PIV a JE> PH> average each, they should survive a current of 200A for a several m JE> PH> or so, or at least long enough to cause someone to take notice of t JE> PH> smoke and smell of burning PVC covered jumper leads. Unless of cour JE> PH> heavy duty welding cable is used as the jumper cable! I'd consider this too, but unlike Peter I don't expect the diodes to survive at five or more times the maximum rated current, especially if the diodes are well used and have already been stressed over a period of years. Now I'm not saying the diodes won't survive. I just saying I wouldn't be so brave as to say they would. :) If it's hot enough to burn PVC from large-diameter jumper leads, then it's probably hot enough to damage sensitive P-N junctions buried within a semiconductor. I also have to wonder what might happen to other electronics that receive a reverse voltage. Let me put it this way: I will not try this on *MY* car. :) --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0232 * Origin: IBMNet Connection - Indpls, IN - 317-882-5575 28.8 USR (1:231/1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGQ00040 Date: 12/20/97 From: MARK LOGSDON Time: 01:50pm \/To: ROY WITT (Read 0 times) Subj: Silicone RW> Bullshit!!! I used that shit on my 86 Olds to try and protect an anten RW> mount from leaking water into the hole for the coax on the roof. I pack RW> full of silicone grease... 4 months later, it was gone, kaput, not RW> anymore...got it? Have you ever tried white lithium grease? --- QScan/PCB v1.19b / 01-0232 * Origin: IBMNet Connection - Indpls, IN - 317-882-5575 28.8 USR (1:231/1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGQ00041 Date: 12/20/97 From: CURIOUS GEORGE MEHNER Time: 08:15am \/To: TOM WALKER (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Battery sizes RJT> There's always a space at the bottom of the battery, for plate RJT> material that flakes off and settles there. If there weren't, RJT> shorted cells would be a lot more common. CGM> What about no-maintenance batteries, where the plates sit in CGM> envelopes, on the bottom of the case? TW> No battery using a Liquie electrolyte has the Plates sitting on TW> the Bottom. The Plate flaking would Short them out too easilly. TW> Not the TRUE No Maintenance Gell Electrolyte batteries are a TW> different story. I have to disagree because I saw a cutaway showing the plates sitting in envelopes right on the bottom of the case. The envelopes keep any flakes from shorting out adjacent plates, and having the plates sit lower allows more water above the plates. --- AdeptXBBS v1.07g (Registered) * Origin: Tempe, AZ USA (602)491-5285 (1:114/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGQ00042 Date: 12/20/97 From: MICHAEL GRAHAM Time: 03:22pm \/To: ROY WITT (Read 0 times) Subj: Scientific water RW> Using a product such as Prestone Scientifically Purified Water RW> with a premium quality antifreeze like Prestone antifreeze/ RW> coolant will ensure that you're providing the best possible RW> protection I treat water scientifically myself, through hundreds of miles of kidney tubes. ;-) --- AdeptXBBS v1.07g (Registered) * Origin: Tempe, AZ USA (602)491-5285 (1:114/20) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGQ00043 Date: 12/18/97 From: MARC GERGES Time: 09:31pm \/To: JAY EMRIE (Read 0 times) Subj: Battery sizes Salut JAY! MG>> Why change a perfectionally working battery? MG>> As soon as it shows signs of age, I'll change it. Not a day before. JE> Well, that's your call. However, I well remember one VERY cold winter JE> day in Belleville, IL. I came home from work, parked the car. A few JE> minutes after I got inside my wife had me go to the store to get some JE> baby formula. Hopped in the car, went to the store, parked the car, JE> went in and got the formula, came out 3 minutes later and ZIPPO!. Not JE> even a click when I tried to start. Net result - BAD BATTERY!. Had to JE> put a new one in. To add insult to injury, I had to call for service JE> because the only tool I had was my voltmeter. Had removed the tool JE> box to do work inside the house. That's one of the days you'd better had to stay in bed to begin with :-) JE> From that day on I do NOT tempt fate at least as far as batteries JE> are concerned. Although this doesn't sound to me like an aging battery - these normally show themselves by weaker starter operation and changing headlight intensity when accelerating. A battery can have a short circuit, but it could happen to a new one too. You can't prevent it. And as said, my battery strongly turns the starter and in all other respects behaves fine - so why change? cu .\\arc ...Extreme feminine beauty is always disturbing. -Spock --- * Origin: sympathy for the debil (2:270/47)