--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGP00075 Date: 12/19/97 From: JAY EMRIE Time: 07:40pm \/To: PETER HARLE (Read 0 times) Subj: Battery sizes PH>-=> Quoting JAY EMRIE to TOM WALKER <=- PH> TW>-> connected, and try to start car B. The idea is to use ONLY car A's PH> TW>-> battery and car B's battery and NOT to use car A's alternator. PH> TW>-> Otherwise during starting of car B, you might draw too much current PH> TW>-> through the diodes in car A's alternator and cause a failure. I've PH> TW>-> never seen it happen, but that's the prevailing wisdom. Peter, let me state it a different way. With NO jumpering being done and without the engine running, what would happen to the alternator diodes if one connected a fully charged battery BACKWARDS? Draw a diagram out with just the reverse connected battery and the alternator diodes. The only thing you would have to worry about then would be just how much current the forward biased diodes could handle!!!!! PH> TW> That is really Not Possible. Alternators are Self Limiting as far as PH> TW>Current output goes and WILL NOT basically put out more then their Rated PH> TW>current. The Big problem with Jumpering a Car, Particularly one with a PH> TW>bad battery is Voltage Spikes produced killing one or all of the PH> TW>Alternator Diodes. PH> JE> No, the single most disasterous possibility is the reversal of one et PH> JE> of cables, thus putting reverse polarity on alternator diodes amd PH> JE> blowing them! PH> G'day Jay, PH> I agree with some of what each of you say, most alternators (60A to 100A PH> rating) feature inherent current limiting, and irrespective of the load, PH> won't supply much more current than the rated values (under normal PH> operating conditions including, a discharged battery). PH> I also agree that there is a possibility that you could damage alternator PH> diodes (and stator windings) in the scenario you state, but that is due o PH> the somewhat unlikely, but not impossible event that reverse PH> polarity across the discharged battery (and subsequently across its PH> alternator) is achieved, forcing additional current into that vehicles PH> stationary alternator (forward biased diodes, not reverse biased (G). PH> If the now reversed, "discharged battery" is successfully (completely) PH> discharged and begins to reverse charge, and, its "reverse voltage" PH> manages to rise to several volts, then, any further large current flow PH> from the charged battery could force destructive current flow through the PH> (stationary) alternators' diodes and possibly damage them. PH> This is primarily because the stationary alternator now acts as a low PH> resistance "shunt regulator" with a forward voltage of between two to PH> three volts depending on circuit parameters. The 6 forward biased PH> alternator diodes in series parallel are rated at around 200V PIV and 40A PH> average each, they should survive a current of 200A for a several minutes PH> or so, or at least long enough to cause someone to take notice of the PH> smoke and smell of burning PVC covered jumper leads. Unless of course PH> heavy duty welding cable is used as the jumper cable! PH> The vehicle with its alternator running and attempting to charge both PH> batteries is unlikely to be damaged under this scenario, albeit that it's PH> supplying maximum output, and then only if its engine is revved up. PH> The automobile electrical system is one of the best examples of an PH> environment that generates the worst possible conditions for emiconductor PH> components. Automotive engineers are well aware of this fact and take PH> appropriate steps to ensure that equipment used therein is capable of PH> operating under those conditions, for at least the warranty period ;-), PH> However, reverse "parallel connecting" two batteries is not a design PH> criteria to be met. PH> In short, you would be hard pressed to cause damage, due to voltage PH> transients, by parallel connecting the two vehicles batteries, with or PH> without the alternator running. The overiding proviso being that both PH> vehicles had reasonably good batteries and terminal connections prior to PH> this event. PH> Regards, Peter H. PH>--- EzyBlueWave V1.20 01fb000b PH> * Origin: Mt.Druitt TAFE +61-2-9839-1310 FidoNet (3:713/709) * OLX 2.1 TD * Life is like toilet paper; we panic as the end approaches --- RemoteAccess 2.50+ * Origin: Northern Lights! * San Antonio * 210-499-6299 V34/VFC (1:387/23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGP00076 Date: 12/19/97 From: JAY EMRIE Time: 07:41pm \/To: MARK LOGSDON (Read 0 times) Subj: Battery sizes ML>JE> ML>Yeah, I just pulled the battery from my lawn tractor for the inter. ML>JE> ML>What I really need to do is to design an electronic regulator for y ML>JE> ML>tractor's alternator. It charges at about 15.0 volts or a little ML>JE> ML>higher and tends to boil the battery dry. ML>JE> ML>JE> Little late aren't you? :-) ML>For removing the battery? I last mowed about the third week in ML>November and the grass has grown noticably since then! Mine hasn't done that well, even in our "warm" weather. :-( * OLX 2.1 TD * Keep that soda away from the keyboooooooooooooooooooooooo --- RemoteAccess 2.50+ * Origin: Northern Lights! * San Antonio * 210-499-6299 V34/VFC (1:387/23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGP00077 Date: 12/19/97 From: JAY EMRIE Time: 07:48pm \/To: RONNIE THOMPSON (Read 0 times) Subj: Battery sizes RT> -=> Quoting JAY EMRIE to RONNIE THOMPSON <=- RT> RT>Yep, even seen it done on slabs, they did it on all types of homes. n RT> RT>Midwest, after the 93 floods, a lot of areas made it mandatory to put ev RT> RT>mobile homes up on "stands" which jacked the homes up about 12 feet. Lo RT> RT>mighty odd, but they will stay dry the next time the rivers flood. RT> JE> Hmmm. When the rivers around here flood, it would do little good to RT> JE> have a mobile home on 12' posts - they would wash away. Secondly only RT> JE> an idiot would even consider putting a mobile home in a place like RT> JE> that, much less actually doing it. RT>You have to realize something, when the floods hit there in 93, it was the RT>highest the water had EVER been. I was there during the flooding and was RT>back there last summer. The water marks are still up on some of the grain RT>silos, which are approx. 30 feet higher than the flood stage of the rivers RT>AND 3 miles away, and the water marks are 10-15 feet up!! It was omething RT>that no one EVER thought would happen and it probably will never happen RT>again. We aren't talking of places being built in flood zones either. hey RT>had bad floods back in 1974 and Tina's grandparents lost their home then. RT>When they rebuilt, they went to the highest ground in East Alton, IL. The RT>floods got them again, as the two rivers were moving with such force, they RT>created a new waterway between the two and washed everything in the path, aw RT>They were in the path. What had been very high ground, was under 20 feet of RT>water. That is what the flat lands do for you. Provides extremely rich flood plains, good crops, and flood washouts. Much of their problems are a direct result of the govt. messing with the rivers thinking they can control nature. Different here. Our rivers are often in canyons. I've seem on the Guadaloupe River. where the flood stage water was as high as 80 feet above normal. Many drivers, try to cross low water crossings, only to get caught in flash floods. Not much chance against a 25-30' wall of water coming at you! This happens even though there was NO rainfall at the crossing. Heavy rain (huge thunderstorms) 20 miles upstream though. After every major flood used car buyers have to be very careful not to buy a flooded car! * OLX 2.1 TD * ... Minds are like parachutes..they only work when open --- RemoteAccess 2.50+ * Origin: Northern Lights! * San Antonio * 210-499-6299 V34/VFC (1:387/23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGP00078 Date: 12/19/97 From: JAY EMRIE Time: 07:55pm \/To: RONNIE THOMPSON (Read 0 times) Subj: Battery sizes RT> -=> Quoting JAY EMRIE to RONNIE THOMPSON <=- RT> RT>Ohhhh, with those two choices, it would most definately be the FORD sole RT> RT>Thanks for the explanation :) RT> JE> I had a bad experience on my RV trip this last summer. In Texarkana y RT> JE> starter locked up in a filling station driveway. Had to crawl under RT> JE> and take the starter loose. First found one of the bolts rounded off. RT> JE> Fortunately I had some 6 point sockets! Loosened the starter and roke RT> JE> the bind, tightened and all went well till about 5/6,000 miles later RT> JE> way out in West Texas. Stopped at a rest area to eat. When I tried to RT> JE> start the starter did mothing but spin - didn't engage. Again in the RT> JE> extreme heat crawled under and removed the starter, took it apart, RT> JE> found nothing wrong, put it back together and reinstalled and it RT> JE> STARTED!. I didn't turn the engine off till 300 miles later AFTER I RT> JE> safely backed my trailer in the back yard! Took the starter off the RT> JE> next day and made AutoZone make good on their lifetime warranty, fter RT> JE> 10 years of use! RT>Good deal, however if it was actually the starter itself, it wouldn't really RT>matter where the solenoid was installed (G). True, and it was actually the starter itself - it had a chipped tooth. The solenoid had nothing to do with the locked up starter. The spinning but non engaging starter (same one) was trouble in the bendix. I figured the safest thing was to replace the starter. They just looked at my receipt and gave me a new one without a bit of argument. I'm even keeping the second receipt! * OLX 2.1 TD * The pure & simple is rarely pure & never simple. --- RemoteAccess 2.50+ * Origin: Northern Lights! * San Antonio * 210-499-6299 V34/VFC (1:387/23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGP00079 Date: 12/19/97 From: JAY EMRIE Time: 07:49pm \/To: GARY HALL (Read 0 times) Subj: cool cop cars GH>Yep it works wonders on the Ford AOD's GH>they'll actually last no foolin. Interesting, very much so. Thanks. * OLX 2.1 TD * Micro Motto: We --- RemoteAccess 2.50+ * Origin: Northern Lights! * San Antonio * 210-499-6299 V34/VFC (1:387/23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGP00080 Date: 12/19/97 From: JAY EMRIE Time: 07:53pm \/To: RONNIE THOMPSON (Read 0 times) Subj: RADIATOR LEAK RT> -=> Quoting JAY EMRIE to RONNIE THOMPSON <=- RT> RT> RT> JE> It is!!! Just how hot do you think an exhaust manifold gets? On RT> RT> RT> JE> of a lot hotter than 232 F! RT> RT> RT>Doubt that the exhaust manifold gets much hotter than the engine wou RT> RT> RT>start with. I don't remember the exact temp conversion of an engine RT> RT> RT>a 14 lb radiator cap on it, but I think close to 250 degrees or so?? RT> RT> JE> Ronnie, you are speaking of the coolant temperature - the exhaust RT> RT> JE> temperature gets far far hotter than the coolant temperature. I hav RT> RT> JE> seen some exhaust manifolds GLOW red which positively means otter RT> RT> JE> that any 250 degrees of so. RT> RT>ohhhh, I stand corrected. Should have read more of the paragraph(G). RT> JE> Join the club. I'm President! RT>And the next election is???? When I die! * OLX 2.1 TD * A naked man fears no pickpocket. --- RemoteAccess 2.50+ * Origin: Northern Lights! * San Antonio * 210-499-6299 V34/VFC (1:387/23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGP00081 Date: 12/19/97 From: JAY EMRIE Time: 07:31pm \/To: CURIOUS GEORGE MEHNER (Read 0 times) Subj: Silicone CGM> -=> Jay Emrie wrote to Roy Witt <=- CGM>JE> Also, a mixture of silicone and a carrier (alcohol for one) put CGM>JE> in an atomizer and well mixed and sprayed into volume controls CGM>JE> (when possible) quite often prevents them from becoming scratchy. CGM>Isn't it cheaper to just buy a spray can of silicone lube? The silicone grease THINNED by the carrier allowes the lubricant to get into smaller openings and FLOW afterwards and shortly the carrier evaporates leaving just the silicone. Cheaper? Probably not. More effective? I think so. * OLX 2.1 TD * Baabaaphobia: Fear of being fleeced. --- RemoteAccess 2.50+ * Origin: Northern Lights! * San Antonio * 210-499-6299 V34/VFC (1:387/23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGP00082 Date: 12/19/97 From: JAY EMRIE Time: 09:05pm \/To: ROY WITT (Read 0 times) Subj: Antifreeze RW>17 Dec 97 13:16, JAY EMRIE said this about Antifreeze to JAMES ARNOLD. RW> JE> the warranty period - They say the original coo lant is supposed to RW> JE> last 30000 miles or 3 years. RW>Only if you use that same kind of antifreeze to top it off when it gets low. RW> you use the ordinary antifreeze, you'll lose the longevity and maybe even c RW>e your freeze protection... I have a hard time accepting that. Ford's owner manual states "Use Ford Cooling System Fluid E2FZ-19549-AA >or< an equivilant engine coolant that meets Ford's Specification ESE-M97B44-A. I'd say Ford would be in deep doo doo if they claimed Prestone didn't fit the specs. I do know for a fact that some years back my brother-in-law used to drive a truck for Chemical Lehman and hauled antifreeze from the chemical plants on the Texas Coast to ALL the major antifreeze makers AND to FORD, and pumped his load out of common tanks to each of these places. This same thing happens with gasoline here. Texaco, Exxon, Shell, et al would get the same gas for their filling stations from one common refinery lots of times. * OLX 2.1 TD * I'm not nearly as think as you confused I am. --- RemoteAccess 2.50+ * Origin: Northern Lights! * San Antonio * 210-499-6299 V34/VFC (1:387/23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGP00083 Date: 12/19/97 From: JAY EMRIE Time: 09:07pm \/To: ROY WITT (Read 0 times) Subj: battery sizes RW>17 Dec 97 19:41, Mark Logsdon said this about battery sizes to Roy Witt. RW> ML> RW> RW> TW>> Actually Roy is wrong on that one. There is a Difference RW> RW> TW>> between Metric Pipe Sizes and English pipe sizes. RW> RW>> RW> RW>> Point me in the direction where I can find the dimensions for RW> RW>> metric pipe threads... RW> ML> RW> ML> I thought NPT was the most common with the exception of aerospace RW> ML> tube fittings like AN. RW>Well, there's a difference between pipe threads, NPS straight or NPT tapered RW>d tube fitting threads. Tubing diameters are what they say they are; IE 1/4 RW>bing has an outside diameter (OD) of approximatly .250"... RW>Pipe diameters are all screwed up, as there is no way to measure one and say RW>at is 1/4" pipe.", without consulting a chart or have first hand xperience RW> handling pipe. For the uninitiated, looking in that specifications chart a RW>r actually measuring what you have is about the only way. RW>I tryed in vain to find a Metric Pipe Tap or Die the other day. There is no RW>h thing as Metric pipe threads, unless they take NPS and NPT pipe specs nd RW>ert them to metric specs... Seriously I have a few metric pipe taps here. Joking, Why didn't you come by? * OLX 2.1 TD * Frogs are smart... they EAT what bugs them. --- RemoteAccess 2.50+ * Origin: Northern Lights! * San Antonio * 210-499-6299 V34/VFC (1:387/23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGP00084 Date: 12/19/97 From: JAY EMRIE Time: 09:18pm \/To: ROY WITT (Read 0 times) Subj: Battery sizes RW>17 Dec 97 20:57, JAY EMRIE said this about Battery sizes to TOM WALKER. RW> JE> Tom, if you apply +12V to the anode of a diode and -12V to the RW> JE> cathode of a diode it will conduct Heavily!!! Then it is NOT reverse RW> JE> foltage, but FORWARD voltage. RW>It won't flow at all...No circuit path to follow back to the source. Your a RW>gy sounds like your using a dual power supply. RW>Unless you say it right. Apply the + end of a 12vdc source to the anode and RW> - end of the same 12vdc source and it'll flow, forward current, reverse vol RW>. To make it simple, looking through the diode from the plus end of the vo RW>e supply the diode's arrow indicates the direction in which you will measure RW> lowest resistance and the highest current. OK, we are going to have to talk specifics. If you connect the positive terminal of a battery to the anode of a diode and the negative terminal of that battery to the cathode of the same diode the diode will be forward biased and MAXIMUM electrons will flow and blow the diode IF there is no current limiting resistance in the circuit AND the battery is capable of putting out that much current. * OLX 2.1 TD * When it comes to being the worst, he's the best! --- RemoteAccess 2.50+ * Origin: Northern Lights! * San Antonio * 210-499-6299 V34/VFC (1:387/23)