--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGM00038 Date: 12/17/97 From: JAY EMRIE Time: 03:07pm \/To: MARK LOGSDON (Read 0 times) Subj: Battery sizes ML>JE> ML>I believe the idea is to use the running car (let's call it car A) ML>JE> ML>to do some charging of the low battery (on car B) for a few inutes. ML>JE> ML>Then after some charging, turn off car A's engine, leave the cables ML>JE> ML>connected, and try to start car B. The idea is to use ONLY car A's ML>JE> ML>battery and car B's battery and NOT to use car A's alternator. ML>JE> ML>Otherwise during starting of car B, you might draw too much current ML>JE> ML>through the diodes in car A's alternator and cause a failure. I've ML>JE> ML>never seen it happen, but that's the prevailing wisdom. ML>JE> ML>JE> Mark, I don't think your analogy will float. I've been there and done ML>JE> that. Tried to jumper a car with a dead battery. The jumper cables got ML>JE> too hot to touch in just seconds. Turned out the car battery that was ML>JE> "dead" actually had a direct INTERNAL short. Didn't affect my battery ML>JE> alternator one iota (that a bit of recharging didn't correct). ML>What analogy? All I'm stating is what I've read as the conventional ML>wisdom nowadays. I've been there and done that many times myself, ML>and like you I've never had a problem. On the other hand, why not ML>be safe rather than sorry and do the starting with the engine off? ML>Consider the situation. You install your jumper cables on the dead ML>battery while your engine is running. The voltage immediately drops ML>across your good battery since it is now supplying current to the ML>dead battery. The alternator begins to supply more current since it ML>senses the lower voltage. This is heating the diodes in the ML>alternator. ML>Next you try to start the dead car, further more increasing the load ML>and the current out of the good battery. That causes another ML>voltage drop and even more current out of the alternator. By this ML>time the alternator is probably delivering about as much current as ML>it possibly can. Will you fail the diodes? Probably not, but if ML>they're degraded and near failure, this might be the straw that ML>breaks the camel's back. ML>As I said, I usually do jump a dead battery with my engine running, ML>so I seldom follow this advice. Obviously I don't believe it is ML>such a serious scenario as has been described. I'm just relaying ML>what seems to be the conventional wisdom. Neither do I believe it. I have been involved in jumpering cars for about 65 years (starting with watching my Dad do it when I was about 7). At the time, it was generators and 6V batteries. Since the advent of Alternators and 12V batteries I've jumpered many many cars, almost always leaving my engine running AT HIGHER THAN IDLE so as to ensure max output from the alternator. So far (knock on wood) I haven't clobbered an alternator. Far be it from me to say it is NOT possible, just that either I have been extremely lucky or the chances are rather remote. ML>However, I'm amazed at the number of people who insist that this ML>scenario "just can't be possible" because they've not damaged their ML>alternators. I wonder if these same people would conclude that a ML>drunk driver moving at 100 mph is safe just because they once ML>survived such a trip with such a driver. ML>Here is one final note on the subject of jumping batteries. There ML>is a second potential problem and it is OVERSHOOT. When the second ML>car starts, its alternator immediately provides some current. If ML>the first car's voltage regulator cannot react quickly enough, then ML>it can momentarily supply too much current and cause a large voltage ML>overshoot. This high voltage can damage some sensitive electronic ML>components. Guess I've never had that happen either. * OLX 2.1 TD * Inside every tuxedo there's a guy ina Tshirt wanting out --- RemoteAccess 2.50+ * Origin: Northern Lights! * San Antonio * 210-499-6299 V34/VFC (1:387/23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGM00039 Date: 12/17/97 From: JAY EMRIE Time: 03:10pm \/To: MIKE S. WELCH (Read 0 times) Subj: Car Cookin' MSW>TW> I remember in the 40's there was an article about a Guy that MSW>TW> owned a Cadillac that used to cook a Roast complete with MSW>TW> vegetables and potatoes under the hood. MSW>A book about underhood cooking is called MANIFOLD DESTINY. The MSW>authors prefer fuel-injected "V" engines because it's easier to MSW>set food on the engine than with a carbureted engine. That's why the old straight 8s and 6s were so good for this. MSW>--- AdeptXBBS v1.07g (Registered) MSW> * Origin: Tempe, AZ USA (602)491-5285 (1:114/20) * OLX 2.1 TD * ...Every morning is the dawn of a new error... --- RemoteAccess 2.50+ * Origin: Northern Lights! * San Antonio * 210-499-6299 V34/VFC (1:387/23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGM00040 Date: 12/17/97 From: JAY EMRIE Time: 03:05pm \/To: ROY WITT (Read 0 times) Subj: Silicone RW>14 Dec 97 10:46, JAY EMRIE said this about Battery sizes to ROY WITT. RW> RW>> I found this out when I built a couple of Horn antennas for Northrup RW> RW>> a few y ago. The antenna I built didn't respond to the spectrum RW> RW>> analyzer like thei gineer thought it should. Sure enough, there were RW> RW>> oxidized surfaces between panels which conductive paint fixed after RW> RW>> we cleaned it. RW> JE> RW> JE> A much cheaper and probably more effective way would have been to RW> JE> have properly cleaned the surfaces, then coating them with silicon RW> JE> grease. RW>Silicon grease is a nonconductor and goes away in the outdoor environment. Correct, silicone grease IS a nonconductor! However, coating the contact surfaces with silicone PREVENTS oxygen from getting to the contacts, thus completely preventing oxidation. Further, when the contacts are supposed to make (plugging in a connector, inserting a lamp, putting a battery cable on, etc. the silicone is pushed aside allowing as perfect as possible electrical connection but still coating the exposed areas. Go away in the out door environment?? No way. RVs are notorious for the clearence light socket contacts corroding, thus preventing the lamp from coming on. Often the bulb an socket are of different materials! My travel trailer is a 1986, with all sockets and lamps coated with silicone when I purchaed the trailer new in 1986. So far not one SINGLE lamp has failed to light - NO SOCKET corrosion. So >NO< IT DOES NOT GO AWAY IN THE OUTDOOR ENVIRONMENT. RW> JE> The silicon grease, while totally nonconductive, covers the RW> JE> surfaces very effectively preventing oxidation but doing NOTHING to RW> JE> prevent electrical contact between the surfaces. Works like a charm, RW> JE> and is used extensively for that very purpose. RW>This would have been a complete waste of time. The idea was to make ontact RW>een those panels that were kept from doing so by the oxidation. Cleaning th RW>rfaces and using the aforementioned aluminum impregnated paint was the right RW>wer. Those panels had to be RF conductors... See above. Also, a mixture of silicone and a carrier (alcohol for one) put in an atomizer and well mixed and sprayed into volume controls (when possible) quite often prevents them from becoming scratchy. * OLX 2.1 TD * Oxymoron: objective opinion. --- RemoteAccess 2.50+ * Origin: Northern Lights! * San Antonio * 210-499-6299 V34/VFC (1:387/23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGM00041 Date: 12/17/97 From: BILL MITCHELL Time: 08:21pm \/To: MARK LOGSDON (Read 0 times) Subj: Electrical loads, battery JE>> Seems that the alternator and rest ofthe circuitry DOES JE>> provide a JE>> closed loop thus providing the field. ML> I believe he's questioning whether it will START without a ML> battery. Does it have sufficient residual magnetism to ML> generate a field? I suspect not. Your suspitions are correct, automotive alternators (in reality they are really an AC Generator) are not self exciting and retain no residual magnatism. They need a battery to excite the field, otherwise they have zero output. --- * Origin: The Right Place, Fort Lee, NJ USA(201)947-8231 (1:2604/539.11) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGM00042 Date: 12/16/97 From: GARY HALL Time: 08:59pm \/To: MARK LOGSDON (Read 0 times) Subj: cool cop cars -=> Quoting Mark Logsdon ML> Have you ever heard of the bell curve or gaussian distribution in ML> probability and statistics? Some will fail sooner than others. My ML> father-in-law's 91 Taurus with the AOD failed at about 89k miles. ML> Some people will get well into the 100k mile range or more, but ML> there are many who have never made it to 75k miles. It's such a ML> common failure before 100k miles that many service techs just ML> chuckle when they see an AOD equipped vehicle getting towed to the ML> shop. I've heard the problem is insufficient flow of fluid that ML> Ford later fixed. Yep Ford Fixed it but the Techs you talk about fixed it first. It wasn't insufficient flow it was insufficient volume that caused all the problems. Simply add an extra Quart, and drive the thing. Gosh that's to easy aint' it ? Gary Generic Hall ... Honey whered ya put ma toothbrush when you used it last ? ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: Cat House BBS * Tulsa BBS List HQ * (918) 584-3441 (1:170/160) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGM00043 Date: 12/17/97 From: ROY WITT Time: 05:01pm \/To: KEVIN RELKOFF (Read 0 times) Subj: battery sizes 15 Dec 97 19:58, Kevin Relkoff said this about battery sizes to Alan rrison. KR> AM>> The size is the inside diameter of the pipe. The outside of pipe KR> KR> so that's how they figure it out the size, okay thanks.. Yeah, it makes it real easy to figure when you know that. For instance, the inside diameter specification of 1/8" pipe is .269"(6.83mm) on Schedule 40 pipe, but it's only .218"(5.54mm) on Schedule 80 pipe... 1/8" = .125" or 3.18mm ... P.S. Next time, leave me a tagline worth stealing. --- * Origin: Bow Tie Racers, Been There, WON That! (1:202/909.13) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGM00044 Date: 12/17/97 From: ROY WITT Time: 05:07pm \/To: KENNY HENDERSON (Read 0 times) Subj: American Sports Car 16 Dec 97 04:19, Kenny Henderson said this about American Sports Car to Tom Walker. KH> TW>-> TW>> And it will Seriously Embarrass the Corvette in any TW>-> TW>> competition want to name. BUT it costs $20,000+ More! TW>->> TW>->> The C5 makes a fine daily driver, the Viper does not. KH> TW>> Not arguing that. Only that the Vette is NO LONGER the "King of the TW>> Hill" KH> KH> Actually it was the ZR1 Corvette that was dubbed 'King of the Hill' Not anymore! The C5's faster... ... If sex is a pain in the ass then you need more lubrication. --- * Origin: Bow Tie Racers, Been There, WON That! (1:202/909.13) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGM00045 Date: 12/17/97 From: ROY WITT Time: 05:10pm \/To: JAY EMRIE (Read 0 times) Subj: Electrical loads, battery 16 Dec 97 10:11, JAY EMRIE said this about Electrical loads, battery to MARK LOGSDON. JE> There is an "e" on silicon. :-( Technically I used Dow Corning #4 JE> Compound. (Of course it is silicone. Depends on which one you're talking about. Silicone is a sythentic (Dow Cornings' Compound) and silicon is a non-metalic chemical element. ... Go ahead, tagline this post for posterity! --- * Origin: Bow Tie Racers, Been There, WON That! (1:202/909.13) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGM00046 Date: 12/17/97 From: ROY WITT Time: 05:15pm \/To: MARK LOGSDON (Read 0 times) Subj: BMW vs Corvette 16 Dec 97 13:38, Mark Logsdon said this about BMW vs Corvette to Alan Morrison. ML> AM>> Chevy hasn't produced a 302 in almost 30 years... How old are you? AM>> ;-) ML> ML> I never knew they did. I recall the 283, 307, and 350 v8. the 1967 and 68 Camaro Z28's were 302's.... ... He who matters, won't mind. He who minds, won't matter! --- * Origin: Bow Tie Racers, Been There, WON That! (1:202/909.13) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGM00047 Date: 12/17/97 From: ROY WITT Time: 05:18pm \/To: MARK LOGSDON (Read 0 times) Subj: Battery sizes 16 Dec 97 21:05, Mark Logsdon said this about Battery sizes to Roy Witt. ML> RW> DW>> Corrosion isn't too bad for Silver, it need sulphor or the RW> DW>> like corrode it, and I don't see sulphor based compound too RW> DW>> often, alone corrosive sulphor based compound... :) RW>> RW>> Pssst! Oxidation is called oxidation because it's caused by oxygen. RW>> Silver doesn't sulphorize, it oxidizes.... ML> ML> That's only part of it. It just so happens that oxygen is a strong ML> oxidizer and one of the strongest and most active oxidizers, but ML> oxidation is not limited to oxygen. When you oxidize a molecule, ML> you remove electrons from it. Getting specific are we? In a limited sense it means the combination with oxygen. For Wei, this should be enough since he can't fathom what you're saying. In a broader sense, it means the loss of one or more electrons from an element or a radical, or an increase in positive valence. ... Rap is to music as Etch-a-Sketch is to art! --- * Origin: Bow Tie Racers, Been There, WON That! (1:202/909.13)