--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGM00018 Date: 12/17/97 From: ROY J. TELLASON Time: 07:53pm \/To: DON LEWIS (Read 0 times) Subj: Battery Sizes Don Lewis wrote in a message to Roy J. Tellason: DL> Don't confuse this with Cranking Amps (CA) or Hot Cranking Amps DL> (HCA), which are measured at 32F and 80F, respectively, and are DL> about 25% higher than the CCA. Exide-made batteries often list DL> only the CA while Delco was the last holdout and still DL> emphasizes CCA, with CA given in smaller print. RJT> This is not a matter of Exide making them, but of whoever RJT> stickers them. When I ran that battery store we would get them RJT> in unstickered, and put 'em on in there. RJT> RJT> One time I was working temp, some years ago, and got into a RJT> brand new distribution center in Reading, PA. There was a RJT> "cage" in there full of little drawers, and they were all full RJT> of stickers, bazillions of them, for all these different RJT> brands, and yet they all went on the same batteries. DL> Did different stickers for any given battery give the same CCA DL> and reserve capacity ratings, or were some brand names more DL> "optimistic"? Mostly the stickers that we used didn't give any such ratings at all. I noticed when taking in cores and such that the stuff that K-Mart sold had "Cranking Amp" ratings on them, not specified at any temperature. They also didn't have a clue as to having to rotate their stock or anything like that, since stuff bought at a given time should NOT have a months-old date code on it. Mostly the stickers did mention some period of warranty, though I was a stickler for "no paperwork, no warranty". Had to be. There was this one guy who came in with something one time and yeah, it was bad, but I had no idea how old it was, or even if we'd sold it as it had no stickers on it at all. The guy had a real bad attitude about it, too, and dropped some sort of a badge on my counter in an attempt to intimidate me, though he didn't leave it there long enough for me to even see what it was. It didn't work. DL> If you want a Pep Boys batter, go to Wal-Mart instead because DL> they usually carry the same GNB-made batteries for $10 less but DL> with a longer free replacement period (24 months). RJT> The stuff sold at the Wal-Mart around here doesn't resemble the RJT> Exide manufacture, which as far as I know is what Pep Boys was RJT> selling. (Though they may have changed brands since I last RJT> looked.) DL> Those $35, 60-month, group 24 and 24F batteries are the only DL> ones Wal-mart sells that are made by Delco. Everything else is DL> from GNB or Johnson Controls, depending on store location, DL> although their Omega line is always JC. One odd thing about DL> these Delco- made batteries is that their CCA is 525 while DL> those sold under the Delco brand are 550, although 4 years ago DL> they were 525. That may be a matter of somebody not updating their spec sheets or stickers, as I saw a bunch of incremental improvements like that during the period that I had the store -- lots of stuff started out as "500" and then went to "525" in the same case and warranty rating. 650 went to 675, etc. DL> I wonder if Wal-mart is selling an old design of Delco's. Not likely. DL> Wal-mart doesn't know, and all Delco would say is that they DL> build batteries to customer specifications. Like I said, it's more likely a matter of something not getting updated yet. I wouldn't worry about that small a difference anyhow. DL> and charge the battery with an external charger because it's DL> unlikely that the alternator will charge it enough by itself. DL> Using the charger every week or so can make the battery last DL> years longer. RJT> Are you talking about an equalizing charge here? DL> I wouldn't know the difference between an equalizing charge, DL> fast charge, top-off charge, or trickle charge, but I wouldn't DL> mind knowing. Well, fast charge is just what it sounds like, and is not too often a good thing for the battery but if you've got one that's about shot anyhow and you just need to get going, I guess it's ok. Top-off probably also means what it sounds like, just bringing the battery up to full charge. Trickle charge is often mis-used, I had people coming into the store talking about doing that for an hour or two with a 10A (!) charger and we didn't use anything bigger in there -- and those folks who had some sort of a car problem giving them a dead battery didn't want to hear that it might take as long as three days to bring their battery back up to full charge. An equalizing charge is when you get a battery to full charge and then you keep on pushing it a bit, designed to equalize the level of charge in all of the cells. I notice on a big industrial charger (for forklift stuff, the amp gauge went up to 300!) they recommended doing that once a week. It's basically a thing to give longer battery life. DL> Even nicad power packs for cordless drills get an equalizing DL> charge, according to DeWalt. Oh yeah? I hadn't heard that about nicads, but they're very different animals anyhow. DL> We don't drive that much, and our car batteries used to average DL> about 3 years of life, but ever since we began to use a little DL> 6-amp automatic a few hours every week, the lifespan has risen DL> to 4.5+ years. Sure. It's keeping it charged that's the main thing. I have to get something rigged up here because I've got one automotive battery sitting here, two deep cycle RV batteries, and about 15-20 gels of various ratings, so I need to build me a setup to keep them all topped off. email: roy.j.tellason%tanstaaf@frackit.com --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-432-0764 (1:270/615) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGM00019 Date: 12/17/97 From: ROY J. TELLASON Time: 08:05pm \/To: DON LEWIS (Read 0 times) Subj: Battery Sizes Don Lewis wrote in a message to Roy J. Tellason: DL> The average car battery lasts 42 months while lead-acid DL> batteries for large backup supplies average twice that. RJT> What's your source for this? DL> Probably GTE or AT&T. It helps that backup batteries are built DL> with thicker plates and don't get jostled around like car DL> batteries. Their plates are lead/calcium, never with antimony DL> in them. I don't know what the differences are, but I know that there are some differences in "stationary use" batteries. I've seen car batteries with lead-calcium in them too, from time to time. I can't recall the brand offhand though. email: roy.j.tellason%tanstaaf@frackit.com --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-432-0764 (1:270/615) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGM00020 Date: 12/17/97 From: ROY J. TELLASON Time: 08:13pm \/To: JAY EMRIE (Read 0 times) Subj: Transmission rebuild JAY EMRIE wrote in a message to JOHN FAERBER: JE> Ford put out TWO Mercury Marquis in the SAME year - one JE> large and one small??? Why not? I understand that in addition to the Monaco I have, there was also a "Royal Monaco" out that year ('77) that was considerably bigger... email: roy.j.tellason%tanstaaf@frackit.com --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-432-0764 (1:270/615) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGM00021 Date: 12/17/97 From: ROY J. TELLASON Time: 08:14pm \/To: JAY EMRIE (Read 0 times) Subj: SEARS CAR BATTERY! JAY EMRIE wrote in a message to CHRISTOPHER TARANA: RT> -=> Quoting Christopher Tarana to John Ranger <=- RT> JR> Then if you take the charger off and let it sit for an hour, it RAWLS RT> JR> when you turn the key. RT> CT> You have a short that's draining the battery to ground. Pull RT>It would seem like a short that will drain the battery in an HOUR would be RT>a mighty large short. What circuits would be that much of a drain, one RT>that would not be visible?? Perhaps a starter that has a leak, and is RT>pulling voltage?? RT> CT> all the fuses in the glove box, (Yeah, I hate to do it too, but this RT> CT> is RT> CT> cheap, fast and effective!) Remove the postive cable from the attery RT> CT> and place a voltage meter in the circuit, red to the cable, black to RT> CT> the battery post. Now replace the fuses one by one till you get some JE> Chris - if you connect the voltmeter that way it will not work. JE> The red lead should go to the battery and the black lead to JE> the cable. Then IF the short is bad enough it will BLOW your JE> voltmeter simply because the meter will have excess current JE> flowing through it. This is flat-out *wrong*. If the meter is set up to measure voltage, then with one lead connected to the battery the other lead can be connected to any point in the car's electrical system and the most that'll show up on it is the battery voltage. If the meter is set up to read *current*, on the other hand, and it's not ready to deal with the current it sees, then quite likely a fuse in the meter will be blown -- I've done that more than once and will no doubt do it again before I'm done. But it's no big deal to change a fuse. JE> Voltmeters are supposed to measure voltage - NOT current. So if you've got a meter set up to measure voltage, what makes you think it's going to measure current? JE> Now IF you were to use an ammeter your procedure would work, JE> providedthe ammeter could stand the current. RT> CT> sort of voltage showing on the meter. Now you know which fuse ircuit RT> CT> is shorted, you can figure out which item on that circuit is giving RT> CT> you a problem. RT>Yet, you will have SOME fuses that will have a voltage going across them RT>all of the time. I'd suspect with the amount of drop that battery is RT>experiencing, it would be a large voltage reading, not just any voltage RT>reading?? As I said in another post in response to this thread, you shouldn't read any more than about six volts (on a 12 volt system) with this test. email: roy.j.tellason%tanstaaf@frackit.com --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-432-0764 (1:270/615) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGM00022 Date: 12/17/97 From: ROY J. TELLASON Time: 08:23pm \/To: ROY WITT (Read 0 times) Subj: Battery sizes Roy Witt wrote in a message to Peter Harle: RW> ... It must be inordinately taxing to have such big boobs. Jeez, are they gonna tax *THAT* now? :-( email: roy.j.tellason%tanstaaf@frackit.com --- * Origin: TANSTAAFL BBS 717-432-0764 (1:270/615) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGM00023 Date: 12/15/97 From: RON TAYLOR Time: 10:59am \/To: JOHN PUMMILL (Read 0 times) Subj: Todd... JP> Anyone remember Todd Jasper's node number ?? Todd is quite active (with his Fiero) in the ASKACOP conference. You could probably contact him there. The moderator is not too heavy handed on off topic is kept to a bare minimum. If you don't/can't receive ASKACOP, I'd be happy to relay for you. --- QMPro 1.02 42-7029 (A)bort, (R)etry, (S)mack the @#$&*~ thing! * Origin: Crime Bytes 2 - Underwood, Iowa (712)566-2872 (1:285/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGM00024 Date: 12/15/97 From: RON TAYLOR Time: 01:50pm \/To: KEVIN RELKOFF (Read 0 times) Subj: Electrical loads, battery KR> JE> Suspect that depends upon the particular make and model of alarm > JE> system, Mine is an UNGO 6000. KR>Well I have a Carbine 5000C <3/4 channel code hopping> and it's apable >of unlocking the doors when the engine is running.. I use that alot >now-a-days.. Take the remote off the key.. lock the door when it's running > and go inside or something well it warms up.. Would be a >COol alarm for someone that does Deliverers, ect.. Then don't have to shut >of the car to run in, ect.. with out the worry of someone stealing/taking >off with the car =] well they still could, by smashing the window.. but >still =] and I was thinking of a Ungo myself.. But i don't know.. got he >carbine at a reasonable price.. so.. My Viper has no problem locking/unlocking with the engine running, and it arms/disarms at the same time. My manual says that it is programmable to lock/unlock without arm/disarm with the II button... dunno, haven't had a need. --- QMPro 1.02 42-7029 Is there a Lawyer in the House? Blam! Any More?? * Origin: Crime Bytes 2 - Underwood, Iowa (712)566-2872 (1:285/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGM00025 Date: 12/15/97 From: RON TAYLOR Time: 01:55pm \/To: JAY EMRIE (Read 0 times) Subj: RADIATOR LEAK JE>I was being facetious -thanks for the backup. I knew it got very hot. >Back in the 30s and 40s I have OVERCOOKED several roasts using the >exhaust manifold for a heat source. For you youngsters, we used to wrap >a roast with potatoes and onions in foil, place it (securely) on the >exhaust manifold and cook it while travelling. Worked best on six >cylinder engines - easier to secure the roast. When you do not have any >extra pennies to spend in a hwy. restaurant you do lots of things to >economize. Worked well for roasting peanuts on an old one cylinder pop-pop stationary hay baler too. We'd tie them on in a coffee can while baling peanut straw hay. Made a real tasty treat when we stopped for water. Have I aged myself??? :) --- QMPro 1.02 42-7029 This side up  * Origin: Crime Bytes 2 - Underwood, Iowa (712)566-2872 (1:285/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGM00026 Date: 12/15/97 From: RON TAYLOR Time: 01:58pm \/To: JAY EMRIE (Read 0 times) Subj: chevy impala JE>Do you have any idea of how/why the appelation of "Yank" was applied to >Americans in general? JE>In the early 1700s there were a number of American pirates operating in >the North Sea. Must have preyed upon the Dutch considerably, because >they were called "Yangtze" (not exactly sure of the spelling) which was >the Dutch word for pirate and soon became corrupted to "Yankee" by the >British. NOW I know why us Southerners (by the grace of God!) call them damn yankees what we do :):) (BTW... don't look at my origin line.... I'm in Alabama) --- QMPro 1.02 42-7029 But I DID read the manual... * Origin: Crime Bytes 2 - Underwood, Iowa (712)566-2872 (1:285/12) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 246 AUTOMOTIVE Ref: EGM00027 Date: 12/15/97 From: RON TAYLOR Time: 02:09pm \/To: JAY EMRIE (Read 0 times) Subj: Chevy Van JE>Ron, not being a Chevy owner I am a bit lacking in knowledge. However, >one of the cardinal rules in trouble shooting problems such as yours is >to carefully check all grounds and connections in the wiring system. Noted. I HATE pulling that inside cowling, but come Saturday, I'll do'er... JE>Also, the failing after heating up failure and cooling off recovery also >can be indicative of electronic component failure - ignition module, >ECM, etc. If all else fails I'd consider changing these components one >by one, starting with the cheapest or :-) the easiest. That is what I started when I replace the distributor cap.. figuring it was the most obvious and simplist... now on to the others. Thanks for the hints. --- QMPro 1.02 42-7029 Do you want that on fifty 3's or two hundred 5's? * Origin: Crime Bytes 2 - Underwood, Iowa (712)566-2872 (1:285/12)