--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 243 HORSES Ref: EBT00003 Date: 07/22/97 From: JEAN PROPHET Time: 06:50am \/To: JAN MURPHY (Read 1 times) Subj: Another Carriage Serive Around .. > What order does the farrier do his feet in? Does he > do the back feet first, then the front feet? No ..... usually he does the left front, left rear, right front, right rear ....... sometimes the other way around ...... but he always starts with one of the front feet. X is good with either of the back feet -- only acts up with one or the other front feet. > Maybe he has some small problem somewhere which only > manifests itself when he is asked to stand in one > place for a certain amount of time. > And when you are cleaning his feet, you don't hit > that "too long" > amount of time, but the session with the farrier is > longer. Hummmmmmmmm ........ could be. What I've started doing is 'messing' with his feet every night now .... and I "pound" after cleaning like the blacksmith would ..... so far he's been good as gold but I haven't tried holding his leg up for a very long time either. > His behavior reminds me of two things. First of all, > when I stand in one place for too long (like at the > bus stop or at work), my back starts to hurt. If I am > walking around, I'm fine. And second, X's situation > reminds me of going to the dentist. Usually I can't > relax and after a while, I start to get tense just > from the effort of holding still for so long. It's > particularly bad when I have to open my jaw real wide > for a long time. If I am given a break every now and > again so I can close my mouth and then open it again, > I feel much better. Well, our blacksmith does do that .... he's very kind and doesn't make him stand in one position for a long period of time (only blacksmith we've ever had that did that too). > So I'm wondering what would happen if you gave X a > couple of minutes of a 'rest break' in the middle of > the session? Walk him around and let him stretch out > his muscles and maybe get a chance to relax a little. > Then go back to get the other two feet done. And if > the farrier is doing the back feet first, maybe try > doing the front feet first. See above. > I'm also wondering how he is loading his weight when > the farrier is working on him. If one of his back > legs was getting 'ouchy', you'd expect it to show up > when the opposite back leg was getting worked on, > wouldn't you? So if that's not the case, maybe the > problem is somewhere else, like in his spine. Never thought of that ....... but wouldn't it show up (back pain) when he was being ridden?? He dones't flinch when pressure is put along his spine .... hummmmmm. > He's stil young, so it could be something as simple as > muscle fatigue. That could be ...... never thought of that. > He's being asked to hold himself up, and there's only > so long he > can do it without getting tired. But why only the front feet ...... and usually it's the left front when he REALLY acts up. > Let me know if any of this makes sense, or if there > are any other clues. Made a lot of sense ....... thanks for the reply. At least it gives me something else to think about . Thanks!! --- * Origin: Home of Mr X's 'Xtraordinary Carriage Services (1:371/33) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 243 HORSES Ref: EBT00004 Date: 07/23/97 From: JEAN PROPHET Time: 06:41am \/To: MEG ALFONI (Read 1 times) Subj: Another Carriage Serive Around .. > JP :>can figure out what's wrong. X isn't lame -- > nails aren't > JP :>hurting him ...... shoes are on good and proper > ..... It's > JP :>nuts!! Any suggestions?? > Might be that he's just developed a phobia to having > his front shoes done...you know, it kinda starts small > and builds and builds until you have a real problem... I wondered about that ...... > Have you ever tried one of those paste calmers on him? > Or maybe have the vet out to tranq him for the next > shoeing or two. Sometimes just breaking the cycle > will help. Other than that, and if you're sure > there's no pain anywhere (including his shoulders, > back, etc) while he's being shod, then I don't know, > either, Jean! I have a 'Horsey Chiropractor' coming out this afternoon to check him out. I'm kinda' grasping at straws but at least this will confirm or deny that he's in pain somewhere. I've run my fingers up and down his spine and he doesn't flinch so I really don't think he has a back probelm =-- but you never can tell ..... I'll let you know what the chirporactor says about him. --- * Origin: Home of Mr X's 'Xtraordinary Carriage Services (1:371/33) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 243 HORSES Ref: EBU00000 Date: 07/24/97 From: KARIN BREWER Time: 5:31am \/To: MIKE MAY (Read 1 times) Subj: Man Made Shade -> Well no one said the manmade shade had to be solid! It could just -> be a roof without any walls. -> Exactly. My last riding arena here was totally open on two sides, and the other two sides had numerous huge roll-up type "doors" (like you see on warehouse loading docks). It was truly nice for riding year-round! Karin --- InterEcho 1.15 * Origin: Passage MO System, San Antonio, TX (1:387/915) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 243 HORSES Ref: EBU00001 Date: 07/24/97 From: MEG ALFONI Time: 07:26am \/To: JEAN PROPHET (Read 1 times) Subj: Another Carriage Serive Around .. JP :> I have a 'Horsey Chiropractor' coming out this JP :>afternoon to check him out. I'm kinda' grasping at straws JP :>but at least this will confirm or deny that he's in pain JP :>somewhere. I've run my fingers up and down his spine and he JP :>doesn't flinch so I really don't think he has a back JP :>probelm =-- but you never can tell ..... I'll let you know JP :>what the chirporactor says about him. One of the things I learned recently is that when checking for a back problem, you start with a firm touch and gradually increase. Some horses won't show a problem at the first pass, but as you increase the pressure, you'll note a response. I used to just sort of run my fingers down the edges of the spine, and when I got nothing, figured it was OK. Then when I learned to do it the right way.....Shiloh has a spot just before her rump that tends to get sore. Wouldn't have found it doing the test the old way! Wish I could find a horse chiropractor around here! The only one that was in this area that I know of has moved to the mid-west. If you have a chance, would you ask yours if there's an association or something that lists chiros in a particular area? I'd really like to get Fid worked on once we get this founder thing under control. I know she's done a trip on her hind end from putting her weight back there for those couple of days she was pretty bad. BTW...she's a little better...still ouchy without her pads. Vet is coming again today to take another look. She's still on low-dose bute, but we might switch her to aspirin. Also, going to re-do the T-3 thyroid...it was in the low normal range last time. She is on nothing but grass hay and still isn't losing any weight. Starting to think she might be hypotyroid or something. Talk about grasping at straws! Let me know how you make out with X. Meg --- * Origin: Elizabeth's Revenge (1:330/173) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 243 HORSES Ref: EBU00002 Date: 07/24/97 From: MEG ALFONI Time: 07:28am \/To: BOB KOHL (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Nice!! BK :>Beware the bird poop.. it and Possum poop are the known BK :>vector of EPM. BK :> BK :>Always clean the bird poop out of the horses water's.. I BK :>am. Always! Meg --- * Origin: Elizabeth's Revenge (1:330/173) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 243 HORSES Ref: EBU00003 Date: 07/24/97 From: MIKE MAY Time: 03:29pm \/To: KARIN BREWER (Read 1 times) Subj: Man Made Shade -> Well no one said the manmade shade had to be solid! It could just -> be a roof without any walls. -> -> Exactly. My last riding arena here was totally open on two sides, and -> the -> other two sides had numerous huge roll-up type "doors" (like you see on -> warehouse loading docks). It was truly nice for riding year-round! See now there ya go. I know Jean knows what I mean too. Her barn is that way. Just a roof without sides. Or at least it was when I saw it the last time. Hmmm, that was a long time ago now come to think of it. I bet that wa about years ago now. --- PCBoard (R) v15.3/M 2 * Origin: Home of Malla, the spoiled Norwegian Fjord (1:2613/128) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 243 HORSES Ref: EBU00004 Date: 07/23/97 From: JEAN PROPHET Time: 05:29pm \/To: MEG ALFONI (Read 1 times) Subj: pix > JP :> I'll keep you in mind when I go to buy my > Vista V > JP :>carriage > OK, I'll bite...what's a Vista V carriage (I think > that sounds expensive!)? Big, beautiful Victorian Carriage -- about $5000 brand new (I'm hoping I can find a used one in good condition). --- * Origin: Home of Mr X's 'Xtraordinary Carriage Services (1:371/33) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 243 HORSES Ref: EBU00005 Date: 07/24/97 From: JAN MURPHY Time: 07:33am \/To: JEAN PROPHET (Read 1 times) Subj: ouchy front feet I've changed the subject line on the message to reflect what we are talking about (sorry I didn't do it sooner).... >> What order does the farrier do his feet in? Does he >> do the back feet first, then the front feet? > > No ..... usually he does the left front, left rear, > right front, right rear ....... sometimes the other way > around ...... but he always starts with one of the front > feet. X is good with either of the back feet -- only acts > up with one or the other front feet. And then you said: > But why only the front feet ...... and usually it's > the left front when he REALLY acts up. Okay, this is going to sound goofy, but here's an idea. The next time the farrier comes out to do his feet, take notes! Watch and write down exactly what order his feet get done. Note his behavior. If he acts up when it's the left front foot, no matter what order, then I'd suspect there is something wrong there. If it's a one-sided problem (left fore only), then I think Meg is right -- it could be his shoulder. I should have thought of that, but you hadn't said he was worse on one side, so I said "spine" because that's what might be troublesome to him on both front feet. If he acts up on the first front foot, never mind which way the farrier starts, then I'd be more inclined to chalk it up as a case of the "don't wannas". You know, maybe after the second shoe gets put on he sort of resigns himself to the fact that it's shoe time and you aren't going to let him off the hook until it's done. If he acts up on the second front foot, at the end, I'd be more inclined to guess it was fatigue, or as you said in your earlier posts, boredom. He's stood there for three shoes and he wants it to be over with already. It's good that the farrier gives him a rest, but as a dental patient, I can vouch for the fact that a practicioner doesn't always know how much of a rest is "enough" to make the patient feel more comfortable. > Made a lot of sense ....... thanks for the reply. At > least it gives me something else to think about . Thanks!! Well, that was the idea, to give you an idea about what other questions to ask, and other stuff to look for. Hope this helps. --- Opus-CBCS 1.73a * Origin: Sci-Fido II, World's Oldest SF BBS, Berkeley, CA (1:161/84.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 243 HORSES Ref: EBV00000 Date: 07/24/97 From: JEAN PROPHET Time: 05:32pm \/To: JAN MURPHY (Read 1 times) Subj: Another Carriage Serive Around .. > Don't mind me, just thinking out loud again. > What problem, if any, might show up because of the > concussion of the nails being driven in? Hummmmmmmmmm -- I did think about that as he gets "stupid" when Larry beats the nails into the hoof .... interesting as he doesn't act up when his back feet are beind done. > I had a bad tooth that didn't hurt at all -- except > during my root canal work, when my dentist put the > dental dam in and put the clamp on. Something about > the way the clamp went on put pressure on the nerve. > Heck of a way to find out the tooth was still alive! > OUCH!!!!!!!! It IS a possibility. > Could he be a little ouchy somehow? So that when he > walks, and his weight is distributed over the whole > hoof, it doesn't bother him, but when the farrier is > driving in a nail, the point-source concussion from > the nail is bugging him? Maybe ..... > Of course, it could just be that he's being a brat, > too. That could be too ..... he certainly was a "BRAT" when our vet floated his teeth last month -- he had to be sedated for the job to be done .... he did NOT like that at all!! He's so good most of the time though -- he really isn't a bad horse so I'm inclined to think that something is really hurting him for him to be so bad about it. --- * Origin: Home of Mr X's 'Xtraordinary Carriage Services (1:371/33) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 243 HORSES Ref: EBV00001 Date: 07/25/97 From: JEAN PROPHET Time: 12:33pm \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: X .... Well, nix the idea of X having a sore back -- he's is EXCELLENT condition so the "horsey chiropractor" tells me. She couldn't find anything wrong with him. Maybe he's just being a BRAT (as was suggested) OR, just being an Arab (another suggestion ) as we can't find anything physically wrong with him ..... OR, maybe as Jan suggested .... something "hurts" when a nail is being pounded in his hoof ..... donno' ..... BUT, it is NOT a sore back, shoulder, leg, hip or anything else sore on him -- that much we do know now. --- * Origin: Home of Mr X's 'Xtraordinary Carriage Services (1:371/33)