--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 243 HORSES Ref: E3L00039 Date: 03/16/97 From: KARIN BREWER Time: 02:57pm \/To: ANGELA PATTEN (Read 1 times) Subj: lipizzans 5 Specific Lipizzaners (mentioned by name) at Lipica: Following World War II, Lipica ended up with 11 horses from Mansbach in Bavaria, where the Americans had sent part of the rescued Lipizzaners to: Siglavy Slatina II Favory Sistina (began breeding in 1949) Neapolitano Capra (a colt who died shortly after arrival) Capra Dubovina Sistina Capriola Canissa Slavina Steaka Dubovina II (In another part of the book, Dolenc mentions two more stallions that had been returned from Mansbach in 1947, and began breeding in 1949: Maestoso Allegra XI Neapolitano Batosta XV) Later (in several installments), the following arrived from the (former) Demir Kapija stables: Maestoso Slavinia VI Allegra XI Batosta XII Gaetana II Santa IV Barbana ) Ira ) 'younger fillies' Thais ) From the former Dusanovo stables near Skopje: Thais II ) Blanka ) 'fillies' That same year (which would be 1947), the colts Maestoso Allegra XV and Favory Kadina XXIII were given to the state stables at Ponovice. On May 12, 1948, eleven more mares arrived from Demir Kapija: Allegra IX Alga Batosta VIII Batosta XVII Gaetana I Gaeta Santa V Santa VII Santa IX Santa XI Santa XV (continued in next message) * OLX 2.1 TD * Smile: it makes people wonder what you are thinking. --- InterEcho 1.15 * Origin: Passage MO System, San Antonio, TX (1:387/915) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 243 HORSES Ref: E3L00040 Date: 03/16/97 From: KARIN BREWER Time: 02:59pm \/To: ANGELA PATTEN (Read 1 times) Subj: lipizzans 6 In, or about, 1950, the Djakovo stable loaned to Lipica the following breeding stallion: Pluto Slava XVIII Between 1948 and 1955, there were 13 breeding stallions at Lipica: Pluto Slava XVIII Pluto Gratiosa IV Conversano Santa XI Maestoso Slavonia VI ((typo?? Slavina?)) Maestoso Allegra XV Favory Sistina Favory Kadina XXIII Neapolitano Montenegra III Neapolitano Mara VIII Neapolitano Batosta XII Siglavy Slatina II Siglavy Allegra XI Tulipan Zenta V Pictures shown: Dubovina XVIII Canissa XIV Capriola XIII Wera VII Thais XI Thais XXVI Samira XII Favory Allegra XVII (from Dkajovo stables in 1974) Rebecca - founding dam of new mare line. (continued in next message) * OLX 2.1 TD * Life is uncertain, eat dessert first --- InterEcho 1.15 * Origin: Passage MO System, San Antonio, TX (1:387/915) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 243 HORSES Ref: E3L00041 Date: 03/16/97 From: KARIN BREWER Time: 03:00pm \/To: ANGELA PATTEN (Read 1 times) Subj: lipizzans 7 Random idle thoughts on the subject of Lipizzans: The numbering system of mares is great, but the mechanics thereof escape me. The offspring of e.g. a Pluto stallion (say, Pluto Allegra XV) out of e.g. Capriola III, if a colt, would be Pluto Capriola III. What, if it's a filly? It can't (I think) just simply be Capriola IV - else they'd be in much higher numbers by now. Does the filly become Capriola IV only after passing all the training type tests, and after herself producing worthy offspring? (If so, what do they call her in the meantime? And what do they call her offspring in the meantime?) There's lots of room for confusion if horses run under one name until proven, and then under another later. Also, please note the 'at Lipica, mares of this line are called..' The implication - and I think accurate - is that each country (or even breeding location?) uses their own names. I went and listened to that video tape I've got (Spanish Riding School special performance at the Stadthalle in Vienna, in 1985). Listened to it several times, but what with background noise, and I think, commentator having to look down - and tilting away from microphone - for reading the names, the names did not come across clearly. Best as I can tell, the following Austrian stallions were performing: Conversano Roviga Maestoso Saffa Favory Allea (may have been 'Allegra') Neapolitano Storia Neapolitano Pretsova Favory Palerma Neapolitano Stella Pluto Capriola Favory Dubovina Favory Mantua Siglavy Flora (who was one that remained dark) At the beginning of the performance, they showed off eight mares with their foals. (This, BTW, 2 years after the herpes outbreak at Piber, where they ended up losing quite a few mares.) Mares shown were as follows (or, that's what the names sounded like to me): Allea (Allegra?), 21 years Galathea, 12 years Mantua, 16 years Novarta, 13 years Harmonia, 7 years Saffa, 6 years Modda I (from Hungary, in restocking after herpes outbreak) Plutora (from Czechoslovakia, in restocking after herpes) Back to the informnation from Dolenc's book, though: Between 1948 and 1955, Lipica had 13 breeding stallions which were mated to 350 mares with a fertility rate of 75 percent. By 1957, Lipica had 26 pureblood stallions and mares ready for dressage and driving training. (Which, if I read this right, ought to precede much breeding of those yet unproven horses). Some time after that point (he doesn't specify), political reshuffling caused loss of interest in Lipica, and thus financial difficulties, and they had to sell all but one of the trained stallions. (No mention of mares). In 1969 the herd consisted of only 59 horses. [So, obviously, they MUST have also sold some mares.] By mid-1973, they were back up to 173 pure blooded Lipizzaners. Karin * OLX 2.1 TD * Telepathy is minding someone else's business --- InterEcho 1.15 * Origin: Passage MO System, San Antonio, TX (1:387/915) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 243 HORSES Ref: E3L00042 Date: 03/16/97 From: KARIN BREWER Time: 04:13pm \/To: ANGELA PATTEN (Read 1 times) Subj: Lipizzans - Correction Oops. Got to make a correction on the time: the Lipizza stud was founded in 1580. Scratch the 1700's... 1580! (Arrghhh. I guess I need new glasses. And I did even think it sounded odd when I was typing it. Double arrrghhh.) Karin --- InterEcho 1.15 * Origin: Passage MO System, San Antonio, TX (1:387/915) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 243 HORSES Ref: E3L00043 Date: 03/16/97 From: ANGELA PATTEN Time: 06:40pm \/To: KARIN BREWER (Read 1 times) Subj: lipizzans or lipizzaners -> -> hi Karin Mike may sent me he said you were the person to talk to -> -> about the Lipizzans i was wondering if you could help me out with -> -> project??? i cant find enough info all i get is the stuff on ww2 a -> -> how they were saved by General George S. Patton and were stolen an -> -> brought back and smuggled across the lines to get away from the -> -> war.... i was wondering though if you could tell me more about -> -> them?? because that would be a big help ... thanks for ta time to -> -> listen to my problem hope to hear from you asap =] see guess an i -> -> hope we can still talk even after im done with my repo -> -> Somewheres I do have a long compilation of Lipizzan info from a few -> years back. I'll try to unearth it later today (it's on a floppy) an -> it. Sorry about the delay, but I simply have got to finish a couple -> of things for the office first. -> -> Other than that compilation..., I'm better with specific -> questions. Having grown up in Vienna, there's a fair amount one -> tends to know on the subject, without really being aware of knowing -> it. -> Karin -> -> -> --- InterEcho 1.15 -> * Origin: Passage MO System, San Antonio, TX (1:387/915) oh ok i see no problem just any info you could give me would be helpful thanks --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: Knight-Line! * Tacoma, WA * (206) 565-0594 (1:138/239.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 243 HORSES Ref: E3M00000 Date: 03/17/97 From: MEG ALFONI Time: 08:52am \/To: VICKI NICHOLS (Read 1 times) Subj: Good Time??? Got your letter. Response will be in the mail this week! So good to hear from you!! Meg --- * Origin: Elizabeth's Revenge (1:330/173) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 243 HORSES Ref: E3M00001 Date: 03/17/97 From: MEG ALFONI Time: 08:55am \/To: KARIN BREWER (Read 1 times) Subj: a reminder KB :> All?? Hardly... I'll have to see what I can KB :>unearth after I finish my "homework." Has anyone suggested that this kid try the Internet? There must be something there! If I have time, I'll try to check it out for her. Meg --- * Origin: Elizabeth's Revenge (1:330/173) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 243 HORSES Ref: E3M00002 Date: 03/17/97 From: MIKE MAY Time: 05:41am \/To: BOB KOHL (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Well, -> And I've used 95 although trankly I still prefer 3.11, however in this ase -> it's a matter of some new software to use.. and I'm certainly not going to -> fire up 95 on this PC. Well the software is what made me switch too. It is getting harder & harder to get anything new in the 3.1 versions anymore. --- PCBoard (R) v15.3/M 2 * Origin: Home of Malla, the spoiled Norwegian Fjord (1:2613/128) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 243 HORSES Ref: E3M00003 Date: 03/17/97 From: MIKE MAY Time: 05:43am \/To: MEG ALFONI (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: a reminder -> MM :>-> > Is she snoozing again? -> MM :>-> -> MM :>-> At her age.. ;) -> -> MM :>Yeah she is getting up there isn't she? -> -> Hey, I go away for a nice vacation...and come home to THIS? Abuse!! Abuse!! -> But you did get my attention. Promise to browse through all the messages in -> a day or two. Who ARE all these new people?? This is great! VACATION??? You get them things every year? SO where did you go this year Meg? --- PCBoard (R) v15.3/M 2 * Origin: Home of Malla, the spoiled Norwegian Fjord (1:2613/128) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 243 HORSES Ref: E3M00004 Date: 03/17/97 From: MIKE MAY Time: 05:45am \/To: KARIN BREWER (Read 1 times) Subj: a reminder -> Geeezzz & I sent her to you for the info. I thought you knew all -> about them too? -> -> All?? Hardly... I'll have to see what I can unearth after I -> finish -> my "homework." Thanks Karin. --- PCBoard (R) v15.3/M 2 * Origin: Home of Malla, the spoiled Norwegian Fjord (1:2613/128)