--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 237 SCOUTING #2 Ref: DDN00000 Date: 09/16/96 From: SEAN BUTLER Time: 09:00pm \/To: DENIS ROY (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: Cub Scout Pack 227 DR>We don't need a boy talk! We need a MAN talk! How can we recruit DR>more LEADERS to take on the boys we already have? We can't increase DR>our boys without leaders. We will be turning away 6 uniformed DR>returning Scouts this week which breaks my heart. try hitting up thier parents. scouting is a "family" activity. Sean. --- OLX 2.2 Proofread carefully to see if you any words out. --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: Brewer Field 206-792-5284 FidoNet Bremerton, Wa. (1:350/47.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 237 SCOUTING #2 Ref: DDN00001 Date: 09/18/96 From: GLEN TODD Time: 08:52am \/To: DENIS ROY (Read 2 times) Subj: scouting Bright the day, Denis! Saturday September 14 1996 11:09, Denis Roy wrote to Paul Johnston: PJ>> Anyone who preaches their religion to others or trys to PJ>> convert them offends me. DR> Personally, I admire someone who will do this. For someone who DR> believes in the Bible, this is a command from God. It takes great For the rest of us, and particularly those who by choice or heritage walk other paths, this can indeed be offensive and can verge on personal attack. This attitude of "I know better than you do -- because _MY_ book says I'm right -- and therefore I have the right to dictate your path." is one of the things thatrr I find most dishonourable and repulsive about the Abrahamic churches. DR> guts to risk rejection by approaching someone on so delicate a DR> subject and I have to admire someone for doing it. However, the DR> person also must have tact to do it right, sensing when the advance DR> is not welcome and backing off appropriately. And in my experience never do. Such is treated as further proof that the target needs to be aggressively 'saved'. There is _NO_ place in Scouting for such. DR> If pressed, the person being approached will be pushed away, which is DR> accomplishing the opposite of the intended purpose. Would that they occasionally realized this. DR> Scouting, however, is not the place to be trying to change someone's DR> beliefs. It is up to the parents to teach this to their kids, not DR> Scouters. A Scouter should tactfully reinforce the beliefs that are DR> supposed to be there when one first joins the movement. Precisely, and a point too often disregarded. PJ>> My policy is that if people follow a faith (or follow no faith) they PJ>> should do so strongly, and perhaps in some circumstances I should PJ>> encourage them to do so. DR> As I stated earlier, any Christian following his faith strongly will DR> try to introduce you to the Bible and the message that is in it. Why? Are you that insecure, that you must bring others to parrot you that your own words may be 'justified' by their echo from others, or is it that the collection plate and the voting booth are the real concerns of the 'faithful'? DR> He is doing it for your benefit, not his own. Keep this in mind when DR> you reject him. That is his professed opinion only, and one that the victim is unlikely to share or agree with. I for one find people who try to run my life or dictate my opinions 'for my own good' extremely offensive and annoying, as well as prime examples of conceit and self-interest. Who is to say that his opinion of what' is in my best interest' is any more valid than mine? Besides which, we are not dealing here with a peer interaction between one adult and another, but between a child (the Scout) and an adult in a position of trust (the Scout leader), and one who is designated as a teacher. In this case, such an atttempt at 'conversion' would be doubly inappropriate and unethical. DR> I may not welcome a Jehovah's Witness that knocks on my door, but I DR> admire the hard work that they are doing and I am not rude to them. I DR> just state that my spiritual needs are well taken care of, but thanks DR> for caring. That sounds suspiciously like the 'rejecting' that you were complaining about above. I guess it's okay when you do it to others, because your path is 'right', but not okay when others do it to you? Is that it? PJ>> I find the idea that anyone can believe in God ridiculous. I PJ>> really do think that it is crazy! DR> Putting your faith in God is not as crazy as putting your faith in DR> man and his limited knowledge. Put your faith in man and you will DR> be let down. This would be a lot more topical and appropriate in Holysmoke than it is ere. BTW, as I remind the people there regularly, 'god' is a title or a job description, _not_ a proper name. If you are going to attempt to teach, at least do so accurately. PJ>> I hope that in my lifetime technology will become advanced PJ>> enough to disprove God's existence, or indeed prove it, but I PJ>> think the latter is infinitessimaly unlikely. DR> Actually, more scientific advances are being made that proves the DR> existance of God, than otherwise. Again, far more appropriate for Holysmoke. To get this back on topic, the final point of the Scout Law' says 'A Scout is reverent.' There is no mention of a particular deity towards which that reverence must be directed. I interpret that as saying that each Scout should show and live the appropriate reverence (or honour, as not all use the former term or concept) to the deities and teachings of his own path and people. None other is appropriate. If the organization cannot or will not deal with this honourably, then the name should be changed to the "CHRISTIAN Boy Scouts of America" to make it clear that it is theologically discriminatory. It works one way or the other; you cannot have both in the same organization (or society.) Wind to thy wings, Glen ... It IS as bad as you think, and they ARE out to get you. --- GoldED/386 2.50+ * Origin: The sound of the Horn is ringing from the hill. (1:128/203) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 237 SCOUTING #2 Ref: DDP00000 Date: 09/19/96 From: PETER KAFER Time: 08:17am \/To: GENE BOMGARDNER (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: scouting I have read several of the messages related to this topic and hope that i may be allowed to enter the fray. -> That is certainly not true here. A beleif in God is certainly a -> requirement, but a particular set of religious beleifs is not. I kind -> of get the feeling that your local troop/pack/whatever is sponsored -> by a church. Some churches, sadly, see the BSA program as a way of -> advancing their own brand of religion First of all, the official BSA position is that quote the BSA maintains that no member can grow into the best kind of citizen without recognizing an obligation to God and, therefore recognizes the religious element in the training of the member, but is aboslutely non sectarian in its attitude toward that training. The BSA policy is that the home and the organization or group with which the member is connected shall give definite attention to religious life. Only persons willing to subscribe to this Declaration of religious principle and to the by laws of the BSA shall be entitled to certificates of leadership. unquote First of all, this is taken from the adult application which every leader must sign. Next, it is important to realize that the Pack or Troop or Post is wholly owned by the organization that charters it. It is the desire of the BSA that the chartering organization will use the BSA program to accomplish whatever ends it feels appropriate. While the BSA is non sectarian, it recognizes that certain organizations will use the BSA program to achieve its own mission. This is most clearly visible in units chartered by the LDS church where the BSA program is the official youth ministry program of the church. This being said, many churches see the BSA program as a way to reach boys and families that are not a part of their congregations. As such, they use the program as an outreach ministry and invite boys who are not members of their church or any other church. In line with both of these concepts is the fact that the BSA does not dictate any particular brand of religious faith. Finally, there is the question of whether a member must believe in God. A leader must agree to subscribe to the Declaration of Religious Principle stated above. A boy does not necessarily agree to subscribe to the Declaration but it is the duty and responsibility of the leaders , the charter organiztion and the home to give attention to the religious life of the boy. This may, at times, result in promoting a particular sectarian view. In practice, however, most units sponsored by churches are ecumenical in their policies regarding the unit. --- PCBoard (R) v15.22/5 * Origin: Pipeline BBS * Glasgow, KY * Fidonet (1:3615/51) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 237 SCOUTING #2 Ref: DDP00001 Date: 09/19/96 From: DENIS ROY Time: 09:12pm \/To: GLEN CAMERON (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: Cub Scout Pack 227 -=> Quoting Glen Cameron to Denis Roy <=- > We don't need a boy talk! We need a MAN talk! How can we > recruit more LEADERS to take on the boys we already have? We > can't increase our boys without leaders. We will be turning > away 6 uniformed returning Scouts this week which breaks my > heart. GC> We have the exact opposite up here - we have 6 Scouts and 6 GC> Leaders. We are trying to get more boys in - at least to give GC> us a 2:1 ratio! YIS Scouter Glen Well we had our big parents meeting where we laid it on the line. No leaders, no additional Scouts. We told them we needed two additional to accept the "new boys", although we were prepared to try it with one additional leader. Guess what? We got two new leaders that night (one with experience from years ago) and one other Cub leader who decided to move up! We now have 5 leaders for 16 boys. Now if we can only figure out how to run a Scout troop........ ... C:\DOS C:\DOS\RUN C:\WINDOWS\CRASH\DOS --- Blue Wave/Max v2.12 [NR] * Origin: The Clubhouse BBS, Winnipeg MB, Canada (1:348/601) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 237 SCOUTING #2 Ref: DDP00002 Date: 09/19/96 From: GARY OAKS Time: 08:25pm \/To: DOUG SECRIST (Read 2 times) Subj: Boy Talk Hi Doug; -> Getting into these schools to give a Boy-Talk a few days prior to the -> Round-Ups really works. If anyone here is not familiar with the -> procedures for arranging a Boy Talk, I would be happy to provide -> information. It's not too late to hold a Boy Talk. We held our Join-Us-Night and it was a big flop. We only signed up about 6 boys. Could you supply us with this boy talk information? We're planning to try this a bit differently at out Oct. Pack Meeting. Thanks! Gary R. Oaks Pack 335 Troop 336 --- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2j * Origin: The Burlington BBS:Burlington,WI. 414-763-8734 (1:154/333) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 237 SCOUTING #2 Ref: DDQ00000 Date: 09/18/96 From: ANTONY LACEY Time: 02:29pm \/To: KEITH DAVIES (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: Scout Promise Keith Davies previously gibbered to Antony Lacey ... Hiya Keith... KD> Whoops, sorry, I always stick a 'H' in, won't happen again!!! So do a lot of people .... KD> Hi Antony Hiya Keith... ;-) KD> We certainly did, I'm already planning on putting a team or 2 in KD> for next years races, but this time it will be a District team It sounds like your eagerness has spread then ..... KD> This was only our second time of going Dragon Boating....we had an KD> hour's session last year at Summer Camp. Was that at Longridge? They're good at promoting other activities apart from just canoeing! KD> The troop is fortunate that I spent most of my youth doing water KD> based activities, such as Swimming, Lifesaving, Water-polo, Sailing KD> and canoeing, and this is reflected in our programming. I tend not to KD> shy away from the water activies as some leaders do. Excellent! It can be all to easy to stick to 'safe' activities ... water activities can be very safe if properly organised and supervised. KD> One thing I would like to ask about is qualifications for a Form W KD> for sailing, which RYA grades are required. Staffs County ran RYA 1 & KD> 2 star courses along with an instructors course, would that be enough KD> to qualify you for a Form W? It all depends on what you want to do ..... (you knew I'd say that!) It shoud be pointed out that although these give the relevant qualifications, you do not necessarily have to hold them. You must however have a technical knowledge to the level of these requirements ... the assesment to be done by a suitably qualified person (from 1st Jan. 1998) this must be an RYA Senior Instructor only .... in the meantime it is unspecified, although I'd hope it would be the same. I'm just digging out my paperwork now as HQ do have a fact sheet setting out what each level should be used for ... here we are. this is the latest fact sheet (Dinghy Sailing) btw .... it has just been updated ... All these requirements are for one authorisation per boat .. if you have 2 boats you must have an authorised person for each (wether helming or supervising) ... RYA (Royal yachting Association for those that don't know) Level 1 is not recognised as a suitable qualification (and rightly so) ... it's purely an introduction to sailing. Level 2 is a minimum to Helm (NOT supervise) on B1 waters .... (tidal endorsement is needed for B1 tidal) ... an RYA assistant instructor is a minimum to supervise. B2 waters require Level 3 or 4 to helm, (with tidal endorsment for tidal waters) and Instructor to supervise. I hope this helps ..... --- JetMail 0.99beta21 * Origin: All At Sea BBS +44 (0)1203 601448 (fidonet.org 2:2500/706.99) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 237 SCOUTING #2 Ref: DDR00000 Date: 09/20/96 From: DAVID GILES Time: 10:08pm \/To: ALL (Read 2 times) Subj: Birthdays Brother Scouts: How do you celebrate birthdays in your Troop or Pack? How do you handle Leader's birthdays? I am in need of some suggestions! Thanks! David Giles Scoutmaster 3rd Widdifield Troop North Bay, Ont. CANADA --- FMail/386 1.20 * Origin: BEEB's PRISON:Corbeil,Ontario,Canada (705)752-4207 (1:225/360) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 237 SCOUTING #2 Ref: DDS00000 Date: 09/08/96 From: DOUG SECRIST Time: 09:25am \/To: GARY OAKS (Read 3 times) Subj: Boy Talk Howdy Gary! You asked: GO> We held our Join-Us-Night and it was a big flop. We only signed up GO>about 6 boys. Could you supply us with this boy talk information? GO>We're planning to try this a bit differently at out Oct. Pack Meeting. I'd be happy to. Please provide an address to mail to (it's a packet) and it'll be on the way! Our District takes a full hour to go over the material contained, for our round-up training. In spite of the training, we still need to use District professionals to actually go into the schools to talk to the boys. One of my jobs is to find out the dates the schools will let us in for the Boy Talk. Sometimes, and at the units request, I am asked to set it up the Boy Talk date for them. The Boy Talks really work. We are averaging about 25 new Tiger Cubs per unit in my area, and about 15 boys for each of the remaining ranks. Our typical Pack size is around 90 Cubs, and that includes our newest Pack that is just 1 week old! Doug Secrist District Commissioner - Hiawatha Three Fires Council - T10 ASM --- * OLX 2.1 TD * ...186,000 miles/sec, eh? So what's the speed of dark? --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: The Precision Board (708)-980-9544 (1:115/410.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 237 SCOUTING #2 Ref: DDT00000 Date: 09/22/96 From: GARY OAKS Time: 08:09pm \/To: DAVID GILES (Read 3 times) Subj: Birthdays Hi David; -> How do you celebrate birthdays in your Troop or Pack? How do you -> handle Leader's birthdays? I am in need of some suggestions! Yup, we do. I include everyones birthday on our monthly Troop calendar. Mine was on the 21st. of this month and the other leaders brought in a cupcake to the Troop Meeting with a single candle in it and everyone sang "Happy Birthday" to me. Kinda neat! (Just Keeping it Simple)! Peace! Gary Oaks Pack 335 Troop 336 --- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.2j * Origin: The Burlington BBS:Burlington,WI. 414-763-8734 (1:154/333) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 237 SCOUTING #2 Ref: DDU00000 Date: 09/21/96 From: GLEN CAMERON Time: 10:04pm \/To: DENIS ROY (Read 3 times) Subj: Cub Scout Pack 227 > GC> We have the exact opposite up here - we have 6 Scouts and 6 > GC> Leaders. We are trying to get more boys in - at least to give > GC> us a 2:1 ratio! YIS Scouter Glen > Well we had our big parents meeting where we laid it on the line. > No leaders, no additional Scouts. We told them we needed two > additional to accept the "new boys", although we were prepared to > try it with one additional leader. Guess what? We got two new > leaders that night (one with experience from years ago) and one > other Cub leader who decided to move up! We now have 5 leaders for > 16 boys. Now if we can only figure out how to run a Scout > troop........ That is great news! Only advice I can give you is to read everything you can get your hands on, including B.P.'s Scouting for Boys - if you can find a copy. Use the program as it is designed and add your own touch to it. Feel free to ask questions both here and at any leader meeting you have out there. Phone your DC for assistance if needed. Get the Leader Magazine - back issues are great tools too! Lots of program ideas, new games, crafts and such in there! Our troop is now 9 boys and 6 leaders. Still growing slowly. But it will be a great troop - lots of FUN! YIS Scouter Glen --- FMail/386 1.20 * Origin: BEEB's PRISON:Corbeil,Ontario,Canada (705)752-4207 (1:225/360)