--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: EEI00004 Date: 10/14/97 From: OLIVIA STANFORD Time: 08:50am \/To: PAUL LOPEZ (Read 1 times) Subj: Might be interesting.... Re: Re: Umpires!!! > TM>What's truly amazing is that you posted this BEFORE game 5 of the NLCS! > Are you by any chance referencing that game-ending strike 3 against Fred > McGriff? That was a real close call there :). except having watched ALL the televised braves games over the past 4-5 years,it doesn't JUST happen before the Playoffs...whats AMAZING is despite the Umpires Bad calls/No call episodes,they still make it to the playoffs. What angers everyone more,is that EVEN once they make it to the playoffs despite the umpires wishes you'd would think at least there they would get fair calls. whats even sadder for hernandez on the marlins team,is he's being lead to believe,that he's an excellent pitcher!!!! He has tremendous control sure... But how much talent does it take to throw a ball consistently out of the "actual strike zone".. If the Marlins win,it should make them proud to know,they didn't do it alone, and likewise for the braves....If they loose,they and everyone watching knows it took a team and a group of empires to keep them down again!!!! --- VFIDO 7.00.00 * Origin: A Horse of a Different Color (1:112/64) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: EEI00005 Date: 10/14/97 From: TERRY MAY Time: 11:22am \/To: PAUL LOPEZ (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Umpires!!! Re: _Umpires!!!_, Paul Lopez wrote to Terry May on 13 Oct 97: TM>> What's truly amazing is that you posted this BEFORE game 5 of the TM>> NLCS! PL> PL> Are you by any chance referencing that game-ending strike 3 against PL> Fred McGriff? That was a real close call there :). Actually, no, I wasn't referencing that particular call, because that call was typical of Gregg's strike zone the entire game. So in fact, I was referencing the entire game, not just that one call. I've seen worse called games in terms of consistancy, but I don't think I've ever seen a worse called game in terms of the size of the strike zone. Eric Gregg made a mockery of the record book and MLB in general. ... PITCHERS.BAT found! Delete DH.SYS (Y/y)? --- JetMail 0.99alpha23 * Origin: #[Rebel BBS]-[Las Vegas]-[HST/V.E]-[702/736-2822]# (1:209/745) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: EEI00006 Date: 10/14/97 From: TERRY MAY Time: 11:26am \/To: ED GRINNELL (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Eric Gregg's strike zone Re: _Eric Gregg's strike zone_, Ed Grinnell wrote to Terry May on 13 Oct 97: EG> It's funny but it's those morons like McCarver who have allowed this EG> to become the norm. They say "I don't mind it as long as they call it EG> both ways" and because it's a former player, nay, former catcher, it's EG> ok and the umpires see it as a way of justifying their strike zones. Someone brought up an interesting point on Usenet, pointing out that NBC stopped using their computer tracking device very early in that game, no doubt because they didn't want to embarass Gregg. These announcers seem like they're afraid to criticize these umpires, and even when their new high-tech simulation right in front of their eyes shows a called strike way out of the strike zone, they still maintain it was "on the black" or "on the corner of the plate." I guess they're afraid that it will hurt the integrity of the game to show just how bad some of these umpires are, but IMO, the integrity is already being hurt by letting their incompetence continue unchecked. Mind you, I still maintain MLB has the best officials in a major sport. They have a very tough job, but get it right the vast majority of the time. But some, like Gregg, are so arrogant they have their own set of rules, and even admit it ("my strike zone"). Calling balls and strikes is not as easy as it looks on TV, and calls are going to be missed. But when you START with your own interpretation of the strike zone, which has nothing to do with what's in the rule book, you shouldn't have that job. Their job is to ENFORCE the rules, not CREATE them. ... Multitasking: Start download; grab a beer; watch some baseball. --- JetMail 0.99alpha23 * Origin: #[Rebel BBS]-[Las Vegas]-[HST/V.E]-[702/736-2822]# (1:209/745) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: EEJ00000 Date: 10/14/97 From: DAVE HASSLER Time: 02:33pm \/To: OLIVIA STANFORD (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Might be interesting.... > OS: whats even sadder for hernandez on the marlins team,is he's being > OS: lead to believe,that he's an excellent pitcher!!!! He has tremendous > OS: control sure... > OS: But how much talent does it take to throw a ball consistently > OS: out of the "actual strike zone".. Alot of talent. Consider: Hernandez threw over 120 pitches. I'd say a good 60 of his +/- 75 strikes were in the exact same spot, about 4-5 inches outside. As I noted earlier, Hernandez would be a fool not to take advantage of what the ump gives him. He showed tremendous control by putting in the same place time and time again. Sure, you can blame the ump for expanding the strike zone (and you should!), but don't blame Hernandez for being an excellent pitcher taking advantage of a situation. Dave --- Opus-CBCS 1.79.x * Origin: The VolleyBoard, (503)537-9874 [11p-8a] (1:105/240.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: EEJ00001 Date: 10/14/97 From: ED GRINNELL Time: 08:37pm \/To: TERRY MAY (Read 1 times) Subj: Eric Gregg's strike zone The Braves traded Terry May to the Pirates for saying: TM> like they're afraid to criticize these umpires, and even when their new TM> high-tech simulation right in front of their eyes shows a called strike The non-baseball playing announcers don't want to look foolish by saying "Hey, guys, I don't care if you played 90 years in the majors because I feel that if you write the rules to read one way, you should follow the rules. Maybe you think that it's ok because both teams are getting the same strike zone but if the strike zone is a pitcher's, it means that you've taken the bat out of the hitter's hands and made a difficult job even harder." --- TrekEd 1.00 * Origin: Marge Schott, the cure for Baseball Fever (1:170/1701) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: EEJ00002 Date: 10/14/97 From: TERRY MAY Time: 10:16pm \/To: ED GRINNELL (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Eric Gregg's strike zone The arrogance of these umpires continue to amaze me. AL umpire Larry Barnett was on the Peter Brown Show today. He again spouted the "consistancy" argument. When Brown asked him if there were different strike zones for different umpires, he replied matter-of-factly, "There are 56 umpires in MLB. That's 56 different strike zones." When Brown, being the idiot he is, asked him if there were any sort of guidelines for the umpire to follow, with respect to the strike zone, Barnett amazingly replied, "Basically, we call what we can get away with." My jaw just about hit the floor. And Brown, being the kiss-ass that he is, didn't even follow him up on that shocking answer. (Shocking, not because it's any revelation, but shocking that they're so arrogant they admit it without hesitation.) He basically stated that as long as it's consistant, any strike zone is okay, and it's up to the hitters to adjust. I'm still trying to figure out how you adjust to a pitch more than a foot off the plate. I guess you adjust by getting longer bats. Well, I hope Livan Hernandez at least sends Gregg a thank-you note for his absurd selection as NLCS MVP. ... (^:b Maddux, Glavine, Smoltz, Neagle d:^) --- JetMail 0.99alpha23 * Origin: #[Rebel BBS]-[Las Vegas]-[HST/V.E]-[702/736-2822]# (1:209/745) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: EEJ00003 Date: 10/15/97 From: ED GRINNELL Time: 08:14am \/To: TERRY MAY (Read 1 times) Subj: Eric Gregg's strike zone The Braves traded Terry May to the Pirates for saying: TM> I'm still trying to figure out how you adjust to a pitch more than a TM> foot off the plate. I guess you adjust by getting longer bats. That's the maddening thing about it; you watch a three-game series and get three different strike zones. People wonder how a pitcher can throw 2 great games and then get blown away. I realize that not every outing is going to be solid, however, I've seen pitchers get screwed by the ump's strike zone and suddenly, the hitters are teeing off on the softballs he has to serve up to get a strike (or he's walking them by the dozen when he refuses to give into the ump's strike zone). If they call the strike zone as written, there's plenty there for the pitcher. I can't believe how much the zone shrinks for some umps so that pitches above the belly button are called balls (What was maddening last night was seeing a pitch 3 inches off the plate get called for a strike and then another one that was right down the pipe but just above the belt get called a ball). --- TrekEd 1.00 * Origin: Striking a blow to purists (1:170/1701) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: EEJ00004 Date: 10/14/97 From: BARRY LAWS Time: 11:27pm \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: NLCS Hello All! Contrats goes to the Florida Marlins, for defeating the Atlanta Braves for the National League Pennett...The Marlins played great and the Braves were at best mediocre...Now the Braves needs to go out and make great trades, such as they did by giving up David Justice and M. Grissom for Kenny "Not so Great" Lofton.. Barry Laws SysOp The Steiner Line BBS --- timEd 1.10 * Origin: The Steiner Line BBS (910)626-7985 (1:3648/6) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: EEJ00005 Date: 10/15/97 From: PAUL LOPEZ Time: 06:39am \/To: TERRY MAY (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Umpires!!! Terry... > PL> Are you by any chance referencing that game-ending strike 3 against > PL> Fred McGriff? That was a real close call there :). TM>Actually, no, I wasn't referencing that particular call, because that call w >typical of Gregg's strike zone the entire game. So in fact, I was referenci >the entire game, not just that one call. I've seen worse called games in te >of consistancy, but I don't think I've ever seen a worse called game in term >of the size of the strike zone. Eric Gregg made a mockery of the record boo >and MLB in general. What's even sadder is that Gregg was quoted in USA Today that "the strike zone hasn't changed in 25 years". A true sad statement, specially if he really believes it :(. Paul * OLX 1.52 * It's so true to life it's hardly true. --- FastEcho 1.46 * Origin: LOPEZVILLE BBS *Hydes, MD. USA* 410-592-5447 (1:261/1371) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: EEJ00006 Date: 10/14/97 From: BRUCE MARSHALL Time: 11:50pm \/To: ED GRINNELL (Read 1 times) Subj: expos Hi Ed, EG> Bruce Marshall was seen kissing Large Marge and telling us: EG> Now, I could see that as an argument as to why they don't show many HOME EG> games, however, road games aren't going to keep people from going to EG> games (unless the team is pretty wretched and even then the fans ouldn't EG> go whether the games were televised or not) so I don't buy that as a EG> reason or more to the point, as his main reason. It's more likely that EG> the CBS argument is the big reason OR TSN is using CBS' argument. I don't buy that argument though, I really beleive that the more games that are televised, the more people see the team and want to go to the games to see it live Bruce --- * Origin: Kings Knights BBS Ottawa, Ontario (1:163/118)