--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: E5B00013 Date: 05/03/97 From: GREG CALIRI Time: 12:28am \/To: MARK YODER (Read 1 times) Subj: You be the statistician -MY> I'm not sure why the *'d lines don't add up, and I can't -MY> find anything on why there are two teams with 163 and one -MY> with 164 games played that year. But, in answer to your -MY> question, there doesn't seem to be anything "odd" as far as -MY> Tovar playing 164 games, when it is recorded that his team -MY> played 164 games, other than that he was very durable that -MY> year. 8-) OK here's the answer. Games that end up as official games - that go five innings -- and are ties -- and not resumed but thrown out and replayed -- do not count in the standings. However, any stats from the game count. E.G. - the other night - the Red Sox played the Angels and were rained out after 4 1/2 innings. Because the Angels were ahead and the Sox hadn't had their "ups" in the fifth, the game was thrown out. However if it had gone five and the score was tied, and the teams decided to play it over from scratch, the stats in the game would count. The Twins had two tied games in the 1967 season which were official but were thrown out and replayed. Thus 164 games - but they only had the regular 162 in the standings. Tiebreaker games (such as the 1978 Red Sox-Yankees one game playoff, and the 1948 one game playoff between Cleveland and Boston) were counted in the standings as "regular season games" - so they did play 163 games in 1978. --- * Origin: Computer Castle / 20 Lines / Newton, NH / 603-382-0338 (1:324/127) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: E5B00014 Date: 05/03/97 From: GREG CALIRI Time: 12:36pm \/To: VIRGINIA BLALOCK (Read 1 times) Subj: Opening Day! -VB> There are folks that call into those radio shows that are -VB> so STUPID! Sometimes yes, sometimes no. The worst type of talk show is the one that is carried by a team's "house" station. Callers who disagree with the way things are run routinely get diverted away, or put on up against the news so they don't have time to talk. Back in the days when the Red Sox were owned by the sorry team of Buddy LeRoux and Haywood Sullivan, they had a house station that carried two old time retired sportwriters as hosts - they were the "Clif and Claf" show - Clif "Poison Pen" Keane from the Globe and Larry Claflin from the old Herald. They even resorted to subtle racism, regularly referring to George Scott (who was on the Sox) as "Chicken George". Now, we have a guy on the Red Sox house station, WEEI. Ted Sarandis (he calls himself Ted "Nation"--the station has had a variety of characters, ranging from a "Colonel Mustard", Eddie "E-Man" Andleman, and of course the drivel from the self- proclaimed "fabulous sports babe"). -- has been accused of never going for the jugular -- any criticism is a softball. And our own staid old Boring Broadsheet, the Boston Globe, actually sat on stories - drug problems in the 1985 Patriots, and they tried to make a minor issue of the Wade Boggs-Margo Adams story by burying it on the third page of the sports section for a few days. Remember, that although a reporter or broadcaster is allegedly independent, he or she is actually an advertising wing of the team he or she covers. If they go too far, they will be nosed out of stories and eventually become ineffective and lose their beat. Of course, when a big, breaking story (such as the Boggs girlfriend story) breaks, they must go with it as they would look like fools if one paper had it on the front page and they had no story or tried to play it down. And they lose all credibility if they are caught sitting on a big story. --- * Origin: Computer Castle / 20 Lines / Newton, NH / 603-382-0338 (1:324/127) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: E5B00015 Date: 05/04/97 From: GREG CALIRI Time: 12:37am \/To: KEN FROST (Read 1 times) Subj: The Balk * In a message originally sent to All, Ken Frost stated: -KF> I was under the impression that the catcher's balk was to -KF> be called anytime the catcher came out too soon. I am very -KF> much interested in the correct ruling on this. -KF> --- OK I received a reply from MLB but apparently they didn't read the question. They just sent a photocopy of the rule book page and said "this should answer your question" and of course, it didn't. They did circle the entire text of 4.03(a) - which says - "The catcher shall station himself directly back of the plate. He may leave his position at any time to catch a pitch or make a play except that when the batter is being given an intentional base on balls, the catcher must stand with both feet within the lines of the catcher's box until the ball leaves the pitcher's hand" "PENALTY - BALK" The fact that they highlighted the whole section implies to me that if the catcher leaves the box for purposes other than making a catch or a play it's a balk (your assumption, too). I can recall in the late 1970s a catcher being called for a balk because he jumped out of the box to try to bluff a runner back to first. Others in here say "no it only applies to an intentional walk" -- I think not, because there would be no penalty for a catcher violating that position. --- * Origin: Computer Castle / 20 Lines / Newton, NH / 603-382-0338 (1:324/127) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: E5B00016 Date: 05/04/97 From: CHRIS BOX Time: 11:53am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Dodgers any fellow dodger fans out there??????? kinda looking like the same ole song and dance, we can't put up runs!!!!1 whats our jinx on third-base men??? Whats up with Zeile? --- T.A.G. 2.7 Standard * Origin: Grasshopper Nest__TAG Beta Site__USR v.e (1:106/1119) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: E5B00017 Date: 05/04/97 From: TOM YOUNG Time: 12:26pm \/To: MARK YODER (Read 1 times) Subj: You be the statistician MY>Ed Grinnell was ejected for saying to Mark Yoder MY> MY>> I'm not sure why the *'d lines don't add up, and I can't find MY> MY>> anything on why there are two teams with 163 and one with 164 MY> EG> Remember, there ARE games that don't count in the standings, HOWEVER, MY> EG> the stats from those games do count. Is that enough of a hint? :-) MY>It was said that there was no post-season tie-breaker game(s) for any of the MY>teams, so no, I can't really immagine how they got credit for 164 games in a MY>162 game season. Even considering partial rain games, protests, exhibitions MY>etc... any of those would not count, and the player stats wouldn't count. Suspended games stats count for players, even though they might not figure in the standings. If two games were halted by weather or darkness or time (can't start an inning after a certain hour) and not completed (say they were the last game of two series) if the completion of the games would not affect the pennant winner, the games would not be completed, but would be counted as a game played and the stats count for the players. --- * SLMR 2.1a * hAS ANYONE SEEN MY cAPSLOCK KEY? * Origin: Dingle Delaware Austin, TX (512) 442-8145 (1:382/48) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: E5B00018 Date: 05/04/97 From: ALAN HESS Time: 04:21pm \/To: MARK YODER (Read 1 times) Subj: You be the statistician Whilst masticating on , Mark Yoder (1:3634/22) wrote to Ed Grinnell: MY> It was said that there was no post-season tie-breaker game(s) for MY> any of the teams, so no, I can't really immagine how they got MY> credit for 164 games in a 162 game season. Even considering MY> partial rain games, protests, exhibitions, etc... any of those MY> would not count, and the player stats wouldn't count. Stats from tie games rained out after five innings count. That's how Tovar played 164 games in a season, and Cal Ripken has a couple of 163 game seasons. *adh* --- Msged 4.10 * Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: E5B00019 Date: 05/04/97 From: ALAN HESS Time: 04:23pm \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Orioles The Orioles have pitching this year! They could be dangerous. *adh* --- Msged 4.10 * Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: E5B00020 Date: 05/03/97 From: CARL FORTUNATO Time: 11:57am \/To: VIRGINIA BLALOCK (Read 1 times) Subj: Opening Day! VB> There are folks that call into those radio shows that are so STUPID! VB> The other night I am listening to the call in show after a loss and a VB> guy who routinely calls talked about how bad the Astros are and how VB> they can't do this and that even though we have done pretty well so VB> far without much offensive pop. I think some folks just like to hear VB> their own voices.. They don't have much offensive pop? Do you think that might just be an effect of their ballpark? How are they hitting on the road? - Carl | carl.fortunato@moondog.com ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.30 [NR] --- PCBoard (R) v15.4/M 10 Beta * Origin: MoonDog BBS RIME NetHub Brooklyn,NY (1:278/15) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: E5B00021 Date: 05/04/97 From: PAIGE MILLER Time: 09:07am \/To: GREG CALIRI (Read 1 times) Subj: You be the statistician -=> Greg Caliri took a called strike three for saying to All <=- GC> OK here's one - GC> GC> Cesar Tovar holds the record for playing 164 games in a 162-game GC> season. In 1967 he played for one club (Minnesota). There was GC> no post-season tiebreaker involved. GC> GC> How could this be? GC> GC> (Moury Wills played 165 games for the Dodgers in 1962, but that GC> includes a tie-breaker series with the Giants). GC> Answer in a few days. Typically, tie games account for the fact that a team will play more than the 162 games. Thus, the Twins had at least 2 tie games during 1967. Tie games were much more common in baseball before the advent of lights. People now seem to forget that tie games still happen, and the records are counted. ... Eat the rich - the poor are tough and stringy. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 --- * KMail 3.10o Knight Moves --- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406 * Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: E5B00022 Date: 05/04/97 From: PAIGE MILLER Time: 09:09am \/To: GREG CALIRI (Read 1 times) Subj: Laugh of the week -=> Greg Caliri took a called strike three for saying to Ed Grinnell <=- GC> Also, I have asked the question regarding the catcher's GC> balk that came up -- GC> GC> The question I asked GC> GC> Rule 4.03(a) says - GC> GC> "Some have told me that the 'catcher's balk' rule only applies GC> when an intentional walk is being given, and the catcher steps GC> out of the box. I thought I saw a catcher's balk called int he GC> late 1970s in a Red Sox game in which the catcher left the box GC> without the ball so as to fool a baserunner or bluff him back. Are you absolutely sure the umpires called the balk on the catcher using rule 4.03(a)? It has been known to happen that the reporters attribute the umpire's call to the wrong rule. GC> Is any violation of position without the ball a catcher's balk, GC> or only a balk during an intentional walk situation? The rule GC> is vague on this, but MLB should know." GC> GC> MLB is very good, albeit slow, in answering inquiries like this. While I agree that the rule is poorly worded, I have no problem interpreting it to mean that the only time a catcher's balk is to be called is during an intentional walk (even if "intentional walk" is not defined in the book). To quote 4.03(a) in its entirety: "The catcher stall station himself directly back of the plate. He may leave his position at any time to catch a pitch or make a play except that when the batter is being given an intentional base on balls, the catcher must stand with both feet within the lines of the catcher's box until the ball leaves the pitcher's hand. PENALTY: Balk." The second sentence indicates that except for an intentional walk, the catcher may pretty much do as he pleases to make a play. ... Defend the right to keep and arm bears! ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 --- * KMail 3.10o Knight Moves --- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406 * Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313)