--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: E1400009 Date: 01/01/97 From: DAVID LENTZ Time: 02:18pm \/To: ALLAN JENOFF (Read 1 times) Subj: AL/NL Allan, In a letter, you wrote: AJ>DL> I say again it depends on the particular player and team. On the AJ>DL> 'Ninety-Six Yankees Cecil Fielder was perfectly capable of playing AJ>DL> first. That fact that some designated hitters can't play the AJ>DL> field, does not mean that every player who ever DH'ed can't play AJ>DL> capable defense. AJ>I'd agree that there are teams so defensively weak that their DH is AJ>capable of playing defense without seriously hurting the team. There AJ>are also teams so offensively weak that they really don't have a DH AJ>and that position goes to however picked the short straw. AJ>However, the whole concept of the DH is to put an offensively strong, AJ>defensively weak player in your lineup. I like to liken the concept of a designated hitter as like having two first basemen in the same line up. Happy Modeming -- David --- * KMail 3.10o Knight Moves --- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406 * Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: E1400010 Date: 01/02/97 From: ANDREW SERRANO Time: 05:36pm \/To: PEG DIETRICH (Read 1 times) Subj: Interleague play PD> -=> Quoting Peg Dietrich to Paige Miller <=- PD> Or how much will a Tigers-Pirates draw??? And the thought PD> of watching the Tigers try to hit the Braves' pitching is PD> depressing! Or the Tigers trying to hit anyone's pitching for that matter :) e-mail: a_serrano@juno.com --- SLMR 2.1a MODEM: (n)- Majorly Overpriced Data Eating Machine * Origin: (1:2613/319) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: E1400011 Date: 01/02/97 From: MARK YODER Time: 07:25pm \/To: TERRY MAY (Read 1 times) Subj: Interleague play Terry May was ejected for saying to Mark Yoder TM> I don't see where there is anything unfair about counting interleague TM> games towards divisional championships. After all, everyone in your TM> division plays the same interleague schedule (except home and away might TM> be different), so where's the unfairness? Does everyone in the same division play the same teams, the same number of games? TM> The wildcard, of course, is a different issue. But I think you're TM> lucky to get in with a wildcard, anyway, so you can't bitch too TM> much about not getting in if you don't win your division. If the answer to the above is "yes," I agree. -= .\\ark =- ... Terry: Diagonally parked in a parallel universe. --- GoldED/2 2.50+ 1547US3 * Origin: Corner of Clark & Addison (1:3634/22) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: E1400012 Date: 01/02/97 From: TERRY MAY Time: 05:27pm \/To: CALEB KIM (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Interleague play On 30 Dec 96, Caleb Kim was hit by a Mark Wohlers fastball, and then said: CK> Why can't they be more creative? more innovative? and less CK> conservative? All they can come up with is this potentially worthless CK> idea of interleague play, which in my opinion will only take away from CK> the World Series. CK> Replace those dummies in the office and someday somebody could turn it CK> around. Like the NBA, like the NFL. Yeah, two leagues that have long had interleague (interconference) play. :^) ... Hall of Fame Ballot: [x] Phil Niekro [x] Terry May [ ] Caleb Kim --- JetMail 0.99beta22 * Origin: *[Rebel BBS]-[Las Vegas]-[HST/V32b]-[702/736-2822]* (1:209/745) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: E1400013 Date: 01/02/97 From: DAVID LENTZ Time: 11:42am \/To: STEPHEN FRAZIER (Read 1 times) Subj: Odd Series Stats Stephen, In a letter to ED GRINNELL , you wrote: SF>Butler averaged about 40 stolen bases per year and was 44th on the all ime SF>stolen bases list as of four years ago. One of the worst in history, allright. SF>Apparently there were only 43 more successful than he, and with a lot more SF>years. If you cite raw totals as proof of excellence, I suggest that you would not enjoy a conversation between me and Ed as to the subject of stolen bases Ed likes to use stolen base percentage and I am found of caught stealing. In neither category is Bret Butler terribly brilliant. Entering the 1995 season, my stats are a year old, Butler had 535 stolen bases, 244 caught stealings, and stolen base percentage of .69 I am hardly overwhelmed by Butler's numbers. Entering last season, Luis Polonia, my candidate for worst base runner, and Butler were tied in one category. Both lead their respective leagues in caught stealing three time, but never in stolen bases. Aside to Ed: Upon further investigation I withdraw the nomination of Polonia as the worst base runner and throw my support to your candidate, Butler. May the worst runner win! Happy Modeming -- David --- * KMail 3.10o Knight Moves --- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406 * Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: E1400014 Date: 01/03/97 From: TOM YOUNG Time: 08:01pm \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Yankees Hey, does anybody know if the Yanks gave up on Brien Taylor yet? --- SLMR 2.1a Press any key to continue or any other key to quit * Origin: Dingle Delaware Austin, TX (512) 442-8145 (1:382/48) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: E1500000 Date: 01/02/97 From: JAMES DUNLOP Time: 10:44pm \/To: STEPHEN FRAZIER (Read 1 times) Subj: [1/2] AL/NL In a message of to James Dunlop (1:3641/1.206), you wrote: EG> AB H HR BA EG> Gibson 1328 274 24 .206 EG> Law 883 191 11 .218 EG> Cloninger 621 119 11 .192 EG> Palmer 489 85 3 .174 EG> Spooner 34 9 0 .265 SF> Gee. You left out Newcombe and the Babe? T'sa matta you? And do these SF> figs SF> show Gibbie hit 24 homers? For 1300 at bats? As a matter of fact, ALL SF> these SF> stats compare favorable with MOST hitters who play EVERY DAY. Do they SF> not? JD> They do NOT!. How many regulars do you find hitting .218? (Spooner's SF> More than you will find hitters who have pitching vicctories:) Not many more. And, yes, I know how many position players have won games (pitching) in the last thirty years. I was at the game. Specifically, since 1970, there have been 28 seasons where a batter has had more than 450 at bats, and hit less than .218. (Through 1992) That's roughly .5% of all regulars in that time. Or about one out of every season. Lower the batting average to .200, and you'll get seven for the last thirty seasons. Obviously, a bit more often than pitching victories, but not, quoting you "(comparing) favorable with MOST hitters who play EVERY DAY." Not even close. JD> 34 AB is a little small to be considered.) Gibson's HR totals JD> indicate about 10 HR per average "season", which isn't bad, but does JD> NOT compare favorably with "MOST hitters". And his overall offensive JD> production does NOT compare favorably at all. SF> OK, the pithcers play once every five days. Just multiply their totals y SF> five and see if you change your mind. Huh? I said "Gibson's HR totals indicate about 10 HR per average "season"". THAT'S calculating his stats over a "regular" season. --- The-Box Edit 1.10- PC * Origin: Dunlop Radial Point. Durham, NC. (1:3641/1.206) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: E1500001 Date: 01/02/97 From: JAMES DUNLOP Time: 11:01pm \/To: STEPHEN FRAZIER (Read 1 times) Subj: [2/2] AL/NL In a message of to James Dunlop (1:3641/1.206), you wrote: JD> That's nice. Who was talking about home runs (other than yourself)? JD> I was talking about offensive value, or in other words, the total JD> picture at the plate. Ozzie Smith offensively was far more productive JD> and valuable than almost every pitcher that's ever been around. (Ruth SF> Well, "offensive value" is a subjective term in this context, because ou SF> choose to determine it without the full range of stats. If we restrict SF> ourselves to opinions only, then it's a free for all, and ANYONE could e SF> considered offensively valuable. I didn't choose anything. Total Baseball (a fine reference book, you really should pick it up) CHOOSE to "determine" it, with full access to the full range of stats. Why is it that anytime anybody presents statistical evidence countering your "opinion", you immediately attempt to reject the evidence? Opinions are worthless without evidence backing them up. I've illustrated the evidence behind my "opinions", you've done nothing of the sort. And for somebody who keeps talking about how great the players of the past were (compared to current players) you sure have shown a lack of knowledge regarding baseball history. JD> and Newcombe are exceptions, that's two out of the thousands that have JD> pitched.) Don Drysdale was NOT a better offensive player than Ozzie JD> Smith. Or any of the other's you've mentioned. SF> A matter of opinion. I would rather pitch to Oz thn to big D. A matter of statistical evidence. But seeing as how you reject any sort of analysis, it really doesn't matter, if it disagrees with your "opinion". --- The-Box Edit 1.10- PC * Origin: Dunlop Radial Point. Durham, NC. (1:3641/1.206) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: E1500002 Date: 01/04/97 From: ED GRINNELL Time: 02:56pm \/To: DAVID LENTZ (Read 1 times) Subj: Odd Series Stats David Lentz gave up a long homer to Otis Nixon and said: DL> Ed likes to use stolen base percentage and I am found of caught DL> stealing. In neither category is Bret Butler terribly brilliant. Butler's been *barely* above what has been recognized as the *break even* point of stolen base percentage, .667. Whitey Herzog built his teams in KC and St. Louis around speed but more importantly, with the exception of his first two years in St. Louis, his teams were always above the league average in stolen base percentage. Not so coincidentally, Lonnie Smith has his best years with Herzog. I think he would have been able to do something about Butler and Polonia. --- TrekEd 1.00 * Origin: Marge Schott, the cure for Baseball Fever (1:170/1701) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: E1500003 Date: 01/04/97 From: PAIGE MILLER Time: 08:45am \/To: ALLAN JENOFF (Read 1 times) Subj: Interleague play -=> Allan Jenoff took a called strike three for saying to Paige Miller <=- PM> We'll just have to see how the interleague attendance numbers (and PM> TV ratings) compare with other games that are current "rivalries" PM> and other games that are, in a manner of speaking, "non-rivalries". PM> And for every new interleague rivalry that is a "natural", like the PM> ones you cite, there are lots more interleague games that will be PM> between cities with no natural rivalry. AJ> Which is why I suggest an imbalanced schedule with more games against AJ> natural rivals. And I'd be all in favor of that. The thought of a Tigers-Astros game doesn't make me want to turn on the TV or hop in the car and pay real money to see it. And I'd be willing to accept the drawback that an unbalanced schedule is inherently "unfair". ... BEWARE - Tagline Thief in this echo ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 --- * KMail 3.10o Knight Moves --- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406 * Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313)