--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DGW00007 Date: 12/25/96 From: ED GRINNELL Time: 07:15pm \/To: PEG DIETRICH (Read 1 times) Subj: Fielder Peg Dietrich was seen kissing Large Marge and telling us: PD> Without getting into to much of a discussion on the economics of I know that... --- TrekEd 1.00 * Origin: Striking a blow to purists (1:170/1701) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DGW00008 Date: 12/25/96 From: TERRY MAY Time: 08:04am \/To: ED GRINNELL (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: hot stove On 24 Dec 96, Mark Wohlers K'd Ed Grinnell for saying: TM>> And we were talking about Clemens, not Belle. (I re-checked the hread, TM>> just to be certain.) EG> EG> If that's the case then why are you bringing up Belle? I don't know what you're talking about. I've been talking about Clemens all along. Go back and read the thread over again. You're the one who keeps wanting to bring up Belle. ... Hall of Fame Ballot: [x] Phil Niekro [x] Terry May [ ] Ed Grinnell --- JetMail 0.99beta22 * Origin: *[Rebel BBS]-[Las Vegas]-[HST/V32b]-[702/736-2822]* (1:209/745) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DGW00009 Date: 12/25/96 From: PABLO MACOUZET, JR. Time: 08:55am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Marlins VS Braves * Originally from Area 'BRAVES' * Originally from "Pablo Macouzet, Jr." on 1:209/10, 24 Dec 96 16:15:33 * Originally to braves list on 1:209/745 * Forwarded by Terry May on 1:209/745, 25 Dec 96 08:54:02 No team has been more active this off-season than the Florida Marlins. Six free agents have been signed -- for a combined total of more than $89 million -- to help a team that went 80-82 in 1996. Alex Fernandez, Bobby Bonilla and Moises Alou were all signed to long-term deals that will pay each at least $5 million per season. Jim Eisenreich and John Cangelosi will bolster the bench and Dennis Cook adds left-handed depth to the bullpen. How much better are the Marlins? Many in South Florida are so excited they think the Marlins will challenge the Atlanta Braves in the National League East. In fact, a recent article in the Miami Herald compared the every day lineups of the two teams and gave the Braves the advantage at only two positions. Which got us to thinking .... Catcher Player HR RBI AVG OBP SLG Javy Lopez 23 69 .282 .322 .466 Charles Johnson 13 37 .218 .292 .358 Advantage: Braves. Johnson's Gold Glove doesn't come to close to making up Lopez' superiority with the bat. Johnson should hit better in '97, but Lopez could hit 30 homers. First base Player HR RBI AVG. OBP. SLG. Fred McGriff 28 107 .295 .365 .494 Jeff Conine 26 95 .293 .360 .484 Advantage: Even. The numbers between McGriff and Conine are nearly identical. If the Braves trade McGriff and move Ryan Klesko to first, give the Braves the advantage as Klesko is a better hitter than McGriff or Conine. Second base Player HR RBI AVG. OBP. SLG. Mark Lemke 5 37 .255 .323 .319 Luis Castillo 1 8 .262 .320 .305 Advantage: Even. Castillo doesn't have any power -- but then, neither does Lemke. Lemke is one of the best glovemen around, adept at turning the doubleplay, but we'll give the Marlins a break and call this even. Third base Player HR RBI AVG. OBP. SLG. Chipper Jones 30 110 .309 .393 .530 Bobby Bonilla 28 116 .287 .363 .491 Advantage: Braves. Considering Bonilla put up his stats in the AL, Jones is clearly the far better hitter. Throw in the fact that Bonilla will be horrible defensively and this one is no contest. Shortstop Player HR RBI AVG. OBP. SLG. Jeff Blauser 10 35 .245 .356 .419 Edgar Renteria 5 31 .309 .358 .399 Advantage: Marlins. As "bad" as Blauser was '96, his on-base + slugging was still better than Renteria's. Assuming Renteria gets a little better, factor in Blauser's weak defense, and we'll give this to the Marlins. Left field Player HR RBI AVG. OBP. SLG. Ryan Klesko 34 93 .282 .364 .530 Gary Sheffield 42 120 .314 .465 .624 Advantage: Marlins. Supposedly, Sheffield will play left and Alou right. Sheffield may have been the best hitter in the NL and, while it will be tough to repeat his year, he rates the edge. Center field Player HR RBI AVG. OBP. SLG. Marquis Grissom 23 74 .308 .349 .489 Devon White 17 84 .274 .325 .455 Advantage: Braves. Both players had good seasons in '96, but Grissom's was definitely better. White has lost a step in center while Grissom remains one of the best. Marquis gets the nod. Right field Player HR RBI AVG. OBP. SLG. Andruw Jones 5 13 .217 .265 .443 Moises Alou 21 96 .281 .339 .457 Advantage: Braves. Stats, Inc. projects Jones to hit .282 with 31 home runs. That may be optimistic, but his numbers should approach and surpass Alou, who is -- to put it simply -- overrated. If David Justice plays right and Jones left, Justice still rates the advantage. The Marlins have an advantage only in left field while the Braves are clearly superior at catcher, third base and center field. Four positions -- First base, second base, shortstop and right field are fairly even. For some reason, the Braves have been handed the label of having a mediocre offense. It just isn't true. Their offense was good as any team in the NL (fourth in runs, just five behind second-place Cincinnati). And no regular really had a career year. Some contend that the Marlins' Big Three of Kevin Brown, Alex Fernandez and Al Leiter matches up with the vaunted staff of Atlanta. True, Brown and Leiter had great seasons last year. What are the odds of those two posting ERA's of 1.89 and 2.93 again? Very slim. What are the odds of John Smoltz and Greg Maddux posting ERA's of 2.94 and 2.72 again? Very good. Since it's difficult to say who the No. 1, 2 and 3 starters are, let's rank the pitchers in order of overall merit: 1. Maddux 2. Smoltz 3. Brown 4. Fernandez 5. Glavine 6. Leiter Oh, yeah, most teams have to use five starters. Denny Neagle is the best No. 4 starter in baseball. The Marlins counter with Pat Rapp. Terrell Wade is the leading candidate for the fifth slot for the Braves while Florida will send out Rick Helling or Mark Hutton. You get the picture. The Marlins are improved. They should contend for a playoff spot. They're not as good as the Atlanta Braves. ... PITCHERS.BAT found! Delete DH.SYS (Y/y)? --- JetMail 0.99beta22 * Origin: *[Rebel BBS]-[Las Vegas]-[HST/V32b]-[702/736-2822]* (1:209/745) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DGW00010 Date: 12/24/96 From: DAMIAN STAMM Time: 10:55pm \/To: ALAN HESS (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: decimated Orioles Alan Hess said this about Re: decimated Orioles to Damian Stamm..... AH> Whilst masticating on , Damian Stamm (1:273/406) AH> wrote to Alan Hess: AH> DS> It's better than the Phillies. Would YOU want Mark Parent and AH> AH> I think the Orioles should have kept Parent as our second catcher. Now e AH> have Lenny Webster - the Manny Alexander of catchers. We had Webster last year before we cut him. DS> Mark Leiter? The Phillies, who have always drawn at least two DS> million, may have trouble getting even 1.5 this year. Only Scott AH> AH> But now you have Kevin Elster. :-) *adh* Elster? I don't think so - we re-signed Stocker earlier...Elster we let go two years ago. I'm pretty sure we didn't re-sign him. --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: From the Sports Desk of Damian Stamm (1:273/406) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DGX00000 Date: 12/26/96 From: VIRGINIA BLALOCK Time: 06:36pm \/To: BRUCE MARSHALL (Read 1 times) Subj: trades Bruce Marshall was chewing the fat with Virginia Blalock about trades on 15 Dec 96 00:50: RC> I hope that the latest trades will be better for the team! PD> Which team? VB> The Astros. They made yet another multi-player deal and such. BM> I haven't heard anything about that, who went where and for whom? BM> <> Ugh, I don't remember them all off hand, but the main folks gone from the Astros are Brian Hunter, Todd Jones, and Doug Brocail. We got Brad Ausmus, a couple of minor leaguers, Jose Lima... can't remember the rest. ... Listen to the Astros on KILT AM 610 --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 * Origin: The Wizards Realm 1-713-9467315 1:106/7315 (1:106/7315) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DGX00001 Date: 12/26/96 From: ALLAN JENOFF Time: 04:29pm \/To: DAVID LENTZ (Read 1 times) Subj: AL/NL DL> AJ>You sure seem to think a lot of the defensive ability of the DH. It's DL> AJ>amazing not a single manager in the AL agrees with you. Not one of DL> AJ>them thinks a DH worthy of starting in a defensive position. I wonder DL> AJ>who's right? DL> DL> It depend on the particular designated hitter. I will leave it for DL> Ed to tell you that in his opinion, Paul Molitor could play the DL> field. On the Yankees Cecil Fielder showed that he had the ability DL> to play first. However the Yankees can't play both Fielder and Tino DL> Martinez at first at the same time. Molitor has gone on record as saying that without the DH he couldn't be playing ball professionally anymore. Yes, Fielder and Martinez both played first. But the Yankee preference, when they had the option in AL parks, was Martinez at first. Assuming they are both Yankees next year, I doubt we'll see any serious platooning. Claiming that a DH could be moved to first is like claiming a first baseman could be moved to short. Sure it's possible. A desperate team might do it. But we all know that someone capable of playing short doesn't get stuck at first. Someone capable of playing an everyday defensive position doesn't get stuck at DH. The DH is a position reserved for aging players with power who would have retired in the past and young players with no defensive skills who wouldn't be playing baseball without it. --- KWQ/2 1.2i Internet: ac436@freenet.toronto.on.ca | CIS: 76460,1466 * Origin: FidoNet: CAP/CANADA Support BBS : 416 287-0234 (1:250/710) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DGX00002 Date: 12/26/96 From: ALLAN JENOFF Time: 04:39pm \/To: PAIGE MILLER (Read 1 times) Subj: Interleague play PM> To me, a Dodgers-Angels game would be no different than PM> a Dodgers vs (NL team with no serious rivalry). PM> I think interleague play is an attempt to increase interest in a sport that has fallen behind virtually every other major league sport in attracting young fans. My guess is it will only have significant success in a few cities. New York and Chicago seem like naturals. You don't have to travel to see the opposing team. And there are strong team loyalties to work with. A Cubs/Whitesox or Yankees/Mets game should be an enormous draw. Montreal and Toronto, which have a longstanding sports rivalry in hockey ought to see similar success in baseball. I would have though LA/Anaheim would fit in there as well, but I don't know the area and I may be wrong. I'm pretty sure a Yankees/Marlins matchup won't be an enormous crowd pleaser. I think it would make more sense to limit interleague games to natural rivals and increase the number of games between the teams. In fact, it would make sense to restructure the leagues and their schedules to accentuate such rivalries. But making sensible moves doesn't seem to be what baseball is about. --- KWQ/2 1.2i Internet: ac436@freenet.toronto.on.ca | CIS: 76460,1466 * Origin: FidoNet: CAP/CANADA Support BBS : 416 287-0234 (1:250/710) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DGX00003 Date: 12/23/96 From: STEPHEN FRAZIER Time: 06:42pm \/To: ALAN HESS (Read 1 times) Subj: AL/NL -=> Quoting Alan Hess to Stephen Frazier <=- AH> Whilst masticating on , Stephen Frazier (1:360/23) AH> wrote to Ed Grinnell: SF> Jim Palmer hit a grand slam during the World Series. Tony AH> Actually, Jim Palmer didn't. Dave McNally did. *adh* Thanks. Wrong guy, right point. He was still a pitcher, and is among the top ten in world series slams:) Stephen --- * Origin: Default Origin Line (1:360/23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DGX00004 Date: 12/23/96 From: STEPHEN FRAZIER Time: 06:44pm \/To: ED GRINNELL (Read 1 times) Subj: Odd Series Stats -=> Quoting Ed Grinnell to Stephen Frazier <=- EG> Stephen was hit by a Randy Johnson fastball for uttering: SF> and they don't earn millions to do it. The reason the Braves are so bad SF> at fundamentals is because they have no one teaching it to them. Stephen EG> Look, I like Lonnie but to blame the Braves for his problems is EG> pointing the finger in the wrong place (Just as blaming them for EG> Butler's base-running stupidity is wrong). He was a bad baserunner and EG> that's even when he was with St. Louis, a team that could hardly be EG> accused of not teaching fundamentals. Which might be one of the reasons he left St Louie. I'm only saying that if the boss is focused enough on that sort of thing, a player will either do it or he wouldn't play for a guy like Billy Martin, Dick Williams, Sparky Anderson, or Tommy LaSorda. Maybe even Tony LaRussa. EG> The Braves have one of the best minor league organizations when it EG> comes to fundamentals (Something that John Smoltz pointed out in an EG> article this week in Baseball Weekly). Minor leagues ain't where they got Lonnie, and it must not be the place that taught David Justice, Mark Lemke (the Alfonse-Gaston combo of the NL), Ryan (Now, where's that @#*&^ strike zone) Klesko, or that Javy (I know the ball should bounce that way, but where is it) Lopez. And certainly there's nothing to brag about when you consider the Braves seem to give up more two 0-2 hits than any team in the league, use the squeeze or hit and run every Easter, or when only about three people on the entire team can successfully complete a sac bunt or move a runner from second with less than two outs. I've seen high school teams that execute fundamentals better. Stephen --- * Origin: Default Origin Line (1:360/23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DGX00005 Date: 12/23/96 From: STEPHEN FRAZIER Time: 06:52pm \/To: ED GRINNELL (Read 1 times) Subj: TBS losing Braves? -=> Quoting Ed Grinnell to Stephen Frazier <=- EG> Stephen Frazier gave up a long homer to Otis Nixon and said: SF> Did they explain how it is that TBS (which is owned by Time-Warner) can SF> lose it's right to cablecast its own games, which (I don't think ) are SF> covered by MLB agreement? EG> WTBS will change from a "Super Station" to a "Cable Outlet." That EG> distinction is what MLB can use to pull the Braves and why they Where did you get this info? I hadn't heard that, and personally, I don't think it will happen. TBS is cash cow for whoever owns it and will stand to lose too much money if they lose superstation status. The Braves are already going to have to pay big bucks to the revenue sharing, and to lose millions and millions more to this... It ain't gonna happen. If it does, then we know why Ted Turner keeps hiring idiots for his front office. Stephen --- * Origin: Default Origin Line (1:360/23)