--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DGK00003 Date: 12/13/96 From: STEPHEN FRAZIER Time: 05:04pm \/To: PAUL SEPPALA (Read 1 times) Subj: [2/2] AL/NL >>> Part 2 of 2... -> Granted, there are periods when one league will dominate for a while, -> then the other, but over the long term, the NL puts up comparatively -> better records in spite of the fact that there is the equivalent of -> another whole team of nothing but sluggers in the AL because of the -> DH, and the starting pitchers get extra innings in which to grab a -> victory or lay on a few more strikeouts. PS> There's no way of knowing whether a league is dominating. The WS PS> records are close enough; they certainly don't indicate any edge to PS> the NL. The AS game is an exhibition, it's less competetive than PS> spring training. The DH sluggers boost teh runs per game (which Hooooo, BOY! You COULDN'T have seen the last two games, especially the Alou-Gwynn exhibition two years ago. PS> worsens the unadjusted pitching stats) and pitching stats like W-L and PS> strikeouts and poor indicators of a pitchers most important skill - PS> preventing runs. Since the pitcher stays in longer, and only leaves when he's lost his stuff, he has MORE opportunity to 'sanitize' his record. An NL pitcher may be yanked in the middle of a no-hitter, or when pitching well, while the AL pitcher might stay in the game under almost any condition short of getting a elling. PS> Interleague play may give a better idea of which league is best but I PS> expect that the overall results will not be conclusive. Especially as long as the DH is involved. Stephen --- * Origin: Default Origin Line (1:360/23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DGK00004 Date: 12/13/96 From: STEPHEN FRAZIER Time: 05:40pm \/To: PAUL SEPPALA (Read 1 times) Subj: NL Cy Young -=> Quoting Paul Seppala to Stephen Frazier <=- -> Maddox was indeed the best in '95, but not as good as Smoltz in '96. PS> Are you trolling? Maddux (pls note the spelling) in 95 had one of the Ooooops! Sorry. PS> all-time best years for a starter. He was more than a run per game PS> better than the league average and was miles ahead of the 2nd place PS> guy. Smoltz 96 wasn't even clearly the best on his team and Brown had a PS> much better year. Don't get so hung up on W-L records. Except we are talking about 1996, I agree with you. Stephen --- * Origin: Default Origin Line (1:360/23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DGK00005 Date: 12/14/96 From: STEPHEN FRAZIER Time: 05:39am \/To: ED GRINNELL (Read 1 times) Subj: AL/NL -=> Quoting Ed Grinnell to Stephen Frazier <=- EG> Stephen Frazier was seen kissing Large Marge and telling us: SF> things: 1. The DH...Most DH's would not play in the NL, EG> Baloney. Most DHs would be first basemen in the NL ala John Kruk. Then why don't they play first in the AL? The issue is not just the DH but the guy who DOES play first base in the AL while the DH is sitting on his butt. And why do you confine it to just first basemen? Secondly, which NL first baseman would you replace with one of your DHs? EG> Maybe because there's NO real "strategy" in the NL. Come on, when EG> pitchers come up to bat with a man on base, it's like punting on 4th EG> down in the NFL: bunt, bunt, bunt. AL pitchers have to put up with 9 EG> REAL bats during a game while NL pitchers only have to deal with 8. True, but pitchers have to be multi-dimensional in the AL. And if you say there is less or no strategy in the NL, then I think I can see you don't really know baseball. Punting indeed! Do you know how many pitchers in the NL have been used as pinch hitters? Do you know how many NL pitchers have more homers and RBI than some position players in EITHER league? You are obviously thinking of what happens when your average AMERICAN league pitcher strides to the plate with a bat in his hand:) SF> While the AL has dominated the WS over the past six years, it is SF> about dead even since 1960. EG> Since 1960, the AL has won 20 and the NL has won 16. However, since Actually, it's the AL 19-17 but who's counting? EG> the introduction of the DH, the AL has won 14 and the NL has won 9. Make that 13-10, would you? EG> Puhleeze, the All-Star game often overlooks some of the best talent in EG> both leagues and is hardly a test of strength. It's a test of the two teams on the field, which is all we have right now. SF> Granted, there are periods when one league will dominate for a while, SF> then the other, but over the long term, the NL puts up comparatively EG> Look at the numbers, Stephen. If you want to go back as far as 1960, EG> AL fans might be inclined to go back to the days when the Yankees EG> dominated baseball. Just which series do you think that the players EG> consider more important, the World or All-Star? I can go back even to where the GIANTS dominated baseball, but that would only prove that there were dominant teams back then, and yes, I think the AL was the better league then, but it has changed back and forth over time. Stephen --- * Origin: Default Origin Line (1:360/23) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DGK00006 Date: 12/15/96 From: ED GRINNELL Time: 10:24am \/To: TOM YOUNG (Read 1 times) Subj: [1/2] Belle... TOM was hit by a Randy Johnson fastball for uttering: TY> And Albert didn't have to put up with a tyrannical g.m who could and TY> would and did cut his salary when he did not improve each year. Mantle didn't have to put up with the probing press that was LOOKING for anything to screw him. Mantle had it a lot easier because most, if not all, events were staged. TY> Nobody back then did. I agree Mantle was an alcoholic, heck even he TY> agreed. LONG AFTER the fact. TY> most part the media as a whole will present the player in a favorable TY> light, unless the player's actions dictate otherwise. Puhleeze. Unless a player stages public events to show how much of a humanitarian that he is, the press is probing for something in his past. TY> Strawberry, Gooden, Howe, Welch, Ferguson Jenkins, et. al. have not TY> committed the boneheaded on and off field actions Belle has. Really? I'm sorry but if you think that their transgressions weren't equal to or worse than Belle, you're either naive or you're trying to give Belle your own special slant. To even include Howe in your list of "angels" is beyond ludicrous. TY> that with the offer they had already made for Belle, Cleveland would not TY> have matched Chicago's offer if they really felt Belle could put them TY> over the top? That's a ridiculous statement. Do you think that Montreal let Alou go because they didn't think he could put them over the top? Do you think that Finley let Reggie Jackson and Catfish Hunter go because he thought that they couldn't get the A's over the top? Cleveland made it quite clear that their definition of loyalty only pertained to player and his loyalty to the team. --- TrekEd 1.00 * Origin: Johnson and Norm, then pray for a storm (1:170/1701) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DGK00007 Date: 12/15/96 From: ED GRINNELL Time: 10:38am \/To: MARK YODER (Read 1 times) Subj: TBS losing Braves? The Braves traded Mark Yoder to the Pirates for saying: MY> The only bad thing about this is that means less Cubs games I get to MY> see... (Until I move out of this God-forsaken WGN-less-cable-supported MY> area). Well, guess what, WGN is outta here come January 1st. The major reason WASN'T the Cubs but the Bulls. The Bulls and the Cubs were the ONLY reason why most people in this area watched WGN (WTBS is on a much firmer ground, even without the NBA. WGN'S WB lineup doesn't come close to competing to WTBS on its non-NBA/Braves nights. Frankly, no one that I know even owns up to watching WGN outside of the Bulls, Cubs and White Sox but they do watch a lot of what's on TBS). With the Bulls gone, TCI made the decision to cut WGN BUT devote a channel during the season to the Cubs (They haven't made a decision about the Bulls. They were completely surprised when I informed them that the Bulls had reached an agreement with the NBA and they said that they might do the same thing with the Bulls). --- TrekEd 1.00 * Origin: Support Pete Rose and Nolan Ryan for the HOF (1:170/1701) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DGK00008 Date: 12/15/96 From: BRUCE MARSHALL Time: 12:50am \/To: VIRGINIA BLALOCK (Read 1 times) Subj: trades Hi Virginia, On <14 Dec, 13:36>, Virginia Blalock wrote to Patrick Dubois : VB> RC> I hope that the latest trades will be better for the team! VB> VB> PD> Which team? VB> VB> The Astros. They made yet another multi-player deal and such. I haven't heard anything about that, who went where and for whom? <> Bruce --- ProBoard v2.15 [Reg] * Origin: Home of the Lynx (1:243/38) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DGK00009 Date: 12/15/96 From: ED GRINNELL Time: 09:12pm \/To: STEPHEN FRAZIER (Read 1 times) Subj: [1/2] AL/NL Stephen Frazier gave up a long homer to Otis Nixon and said: SF> It IS standardized in the NL. Funny, the idea for the DH has its origins in the NL and it was LONG before the DH was adopted by the AL. Even back then someone realized how little they contributed to the offense. --- TrekEd 1.00 * Origin: Where did you go, Joe Charboneau? (1:170/1701) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DGK00010 Date: 12/15/96 From: ED GRINNELL Time: 09:15pm \/To: STEPHEN FRAZIER (Read 1 times) Subj: AL/NL Stephen Frazier gave up a long homer to Otis Nixon and said: SF> on his butt. And why do you confine it to just first basemen? Secondly, SF> which NL first baseman would you replace with one of your DHs? Fred McGriff for starters. Hell, I'll even add Mitchell in LF (Especially since Cincinnati felt that they could easily replace him). Ryan Klesko is another. That's for starters. Why don't some of the DHs play first? Well, in the case of a player like Frank Thomas, his pride cometh before the team's benefit. They could replace him with a better fielder but his pride won't let him admit that the team would be better off. SF> True, but pitchers have to be multi-dimensional in the AL. And if you SF> say there is less or no strategy in the NL, then I think I can see you SF> don't really know baseball. I've been watching baseball LONG before there was a DH and even back then I felt that pitchers were useless as batters. SF> Punting indeed! Do you know how many pitchers in the NL have been SF> used as pinch hitters? I don't have the numbers from this year but I will soon. As for 1995, 13 NL pitchers were used as pinch hitters and none of the usual suspects (Glavine, Smoltz, Maddux, etc.) were used. For all that effort, they went 2 of 11. SF> Do you know how many NL pitchers have more homers and RBI than some SF> position players in EITHER league? Gee, I'm sure that ANY pitcher that hits one home run or drives in one run can find a player that they've *beaten* in the other league. For the most part, they're useless. If they weren't, they wouldn't be asked to bunt as much as they are. SF> You are obviously thinking of what happens when your average SF> AMERICAN league pitcher strides to the plate with a bat in his SF> hand:) Funny, Todd Stottlemyre, who had all of 1 career AB in the AL, was one of the "better" hitting pitchers when he moved over to the NL last year. SF> Actually, it's the AL 19-17 but who's counting? You are and you're right, I miscounted one. SF> It's a test of the two teams on the field, which is all we have right SF> now. Puhleeze. Why is it "all we have right now" and the World Series isn't? --- TrekEd 1.00 * Origin: Support Pete Rose and Nolan Ryan for the HOF (1:170/1701) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DGK00011 Date: 12/15/96 From: ANDREW SERRANO Time: 05:23pm \/To: PEG DIETRICH (Read 1 times) Subj: Spring Training PD> DB> *sigh* I hate waiting for spring training. PD> Me, too. This is the worst time of the year, no baseball. --- SLMR 2.1a My hard drive's full, I think I'll try this message thing * Origin: (1:2613/319) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DGK00012 Date: 12/15/96 From: ANDREW SERRANO Time: 05:23pm \/To: TOM YOUNG (Read 1 times) Subj: hot stove TY>Man, my Yanks getting outspent for Clemens. 8+mil per year by Toronto. TY>I guess the Canadian dollar is getting a little better exchange rate TY>these days for them to be able to afford that. And then the Cubs TY>getting another pitcher in Tapani. Jeff King and Jay Bell to the Royals TY>for Joe Randa and some minor league pitchers. I would have thought What about the Red Sox getting Shane Mack. --- SLMR 2.1a A seminar for Time Travel will be held 2 weeks ago. * Origin: (1:2613/319)