--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DFM00000 Date: 11/17/96 From: ANDREW SERRANO Time: 08:15am \/To: DAVID LENTZ (Read 2 times) Subj: Free agent salaries DL>Not true. It is legal to operate another major league. We had DL>several, to include the Federal League, none recently. However a few DL>years ago an attempt was made to launch the United League. I believe it DL>failed due to lack of capital and not any legal reasons. I remember watching on ESPN when that league was trying to get started. I never knew what happened to it till now. Thanks! --- SLMR 2.1a Who knows, this could be your tagline * Origin: (1:2613/319) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DFN00000 Date: 11/17/96 From: ALAN HESS Time: 03:53pm \/To: ALL (Read 2 times) Subj: brain-dead! I'm now fully convinced - Pat Gillick is brain-dead. Bad enough he pisses off the RLF with the dumb moves he's made or plans to make (see below), but now I see they're discussing trading Alomar! That would be brilliant - the best second baseman (and one of the best all-around players) in baseball, and Gillick is considering shipping him out?? Maybe he plans to play Manny in right field and second base at the same time? We need pitching - we don't need to change the offense. Gillick has lost his marbles - time to fire his butt before he destroys the team. THIS IS A COMMUNIQUE FROM THE RELEASE LUIS FACTION'S FOUR MAN ROTATION CAUCUS The RLF is extremely angry with the Orioles' "brain trust", which, judging by the dumb moves being made or planned, seems to be working for the Yankees! 1) Replacing Bonilla with Darryl Hamilton, who's already 32, has no power, and had an on-base-percentage .014 lower than the average leadoff hitter. There is NO way that the combination of Hamilton's defense and offense will come close to matching the net run production of Bonilla's defense and offense. Bonilla does need to drop 10-15 pounds, but he's adequate in right. 100 rbi men don't grow on trees. 2) Moving Cal to third. Omar Vizquel committed 20 errors in 1996, and Bordick's chances and assists were nearly identical to Cal's. Neither man can carry Cal's bat (nor can Walt Weiss or the one-year wonder Kevin Elster.) Cal does need to DH or sit occasionally next season - he an't play 173 games at short anymore. However, there's no real reason to move Cal from short for 1997. 3) Replacing Hoiles, whose only real problem is that Oriole pitchers can't (or don't) hold runners. Hoiles throws out 50% of base stealers when Mussina pitches, because Mussina does his part and keeps runners close. Neither Santiago nor Girardi nor any of the other catchers mentioned (save Steinbach, who's 35) are any better at throwing out baserunners than Hoiles, and Hoiles is better at blocking pitches in the dirt than any of hem. Whoever is the hitting coach next season MUST teach these guys how to hit the ball where it's pitched, and Ray Miller MUST teach the pitchers how to hold runners. These were the Oriole's biggest problems. If the Orioles were smart, they'd change little from the team that finished last season (other than adding a quality starter.) .....END COMMUNIQUE..... Alan from Pikesville RLF Founder/Spokesman --- MsgedSQ/2 3.35 * Origin: Nerve Center - Source of the SPINAL_INJURY echo! (1:261/1000) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DFN00001 Date: 11/17/96 From: JAMES DUNLOP Time: 04:46pm \/To: ED GRINNELL (Read 2 times) Subj: NL Cy Young In a message of to Stephen Frazier (1:360/23), you wrote: EG> Horse manure. Do you honestly believe that the Braves have more confidence EG> in Smoltz than they do Maddux? Maddux has had the lowest run support on EG> the Braves for every year but one and he finished second worst that ear. EG> There's no way in hell that the team was more confident with Smoltz on the EG> mound. If anything, it shows that they feel that they have to work their EG> butts off to get a win for Smoltz. Or that replacing Javy Lopez's bat with Charlie OBrien or Eddie Perez brings the offense down that much when Maddux pitches. y --- The-Box Edit 1.10- PC * Origin: Dunlop Radial Point. Durham, NC. (1:3641/1.206) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DFP00000 Date: 11/19/96 From: ED GRINNELL Time: 05:47pm \/To: ALL (Read 2 times) Subj: Belle... I can't believe just how stupid Cleveland is and more importantly, how they can expect any of their players to buy any of their baloney. Albert Belle (and several other players) did the organization a favor and instead of repaying Belle, the organization tried to get Belle to sign for less. When it became apparent that he wouldn't, they went out and traded for Williams. Now, I respect Williams but unless he's going to be a permanent DH, they really screwed up this one. He's been injury prone the last few years and I don't think that he gives them what Belle does. Like it or not, Indians' fans, your team bought second place the moment they traded for Williams. Note to sportswriters and fans who honestly believed that Belle was hurting himself with his antics, he was in demand by a lot of teams and some of them were teams that had said that they wouldn't sign him because of his actions. Anyone who bought that notion needs to wake up and smell what they're shoveling. --- TrekEd 1.00 * Origin: Marge Schott, the cure for Baseball Fever (1:170/1701) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DFP00001 Date: 11/17/96 From: ALLAN JENOFF Time: 09:05am \/To: STEPHEN FRAZIER (Read 2 times) Subj: Labour (non)Deal SF> I heard that both groups have asked congress to retract the SF> anti-trust provision granted MLB. BRAVO! I don't know why the SF> players want it, but for the owners it would allow them to run SF> their clubs as a regular business. If that happens, the salaries SF> will drop like a soccer mom's bloomers at a Clinton rally. Why do you assume salaries would drop? Given that the owners are tripping over themselves in their eagerness to hand out tens of millions of dollars, I see no reason to believe a change in the baseball monopoly will make any difference. If anything, this change will benefit players and lead to higher salaries, since the possibility of another major league will be opened up. The players believe, probably wrongly, that the luxury tax will lower their salaries. Nevertheless, they accepted a contract with the tax. The owners voted against it. The next day they were offering Albert Belle 10 million a year. From where I stand, the players are actually more willing to limit salaries than the owners are. --- KWQ/2 1.2i Internet: ac436@freenet.toronto.on.ca | CIS: 76460,1466 * Origin: FidoNet: CAP/CANADA Support BBS : 416 287-0234 (1:250/710) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DFP00002 Date: 11/20/96 From: BRUCE MARSHALL Time: 01:24am \/To: RUSS PAIGE (Read 2 times) Subj: Free agent salaries Hi Russ, On <05 Nov, 01:12>, Russ Paige wrote to Allan Jenoff/Paul Seppala : RP> AJ> The Expos managed to be competitive this RP> AJ> year with a payroll about a third as big as Atlanta's and a quarter RP> the RP> AJ> size of New York's. RP> RP> You have a generous defintion of "competitive." Wouldn't you consider finishing one or 2 games out of the wild-card competitive, if not, then the biggest joke is then your definition. Montreal was indeed very competitive this past year, a couple of better series against the Braves and they would have been in the playoffs. Bruce --- ProBoard v2.15 [Reg] * Origin: Home of the Lynx (1:243/38) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DFQ00000 Date: 11/20/96 From: MARK YODER Time: 02:52pm \/To: ED GRINNELL (Read 2 times) Subj: Belle... Ed Grinnell was fondling The Chicken while saying to All: EG> Note to sportswriters and fans who honestly believed that Belle was EG> hurting himself with his antics, he was in demand by a lot of teams and EG> some of them were teams that had said that they wouldn't sign him EG> because of his actions. Anyone who bought that notion needs to wake up EG> and smell what they're shoveling. Antics or no antics, I'm glad the ChiSox picked him up. 8-) Gives me hope for that cross-town World Series this year. -= .\\ark =- ... Contribute to the Help Ed Buy-A-Clue Fund. --- GoldED/2 2.50+ 1547US3 * Origin: 1908 - When tickets were cheap, and the Cubs were Champs (1:3634/22) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DFQ00001 Date: 11/20/96 From: ED GRINNELL Time: 08:53pm \/To: MARK YODER (Read 2 times) Subj: Belle... The Braves traded Mark Yoder to the Pirates for saying: MY> Antics or no antics, I'm glad the ChiSox picked him up. 8-) I've never had a real problem with him but you're always going to have people who cling to the fantasy that they have about players like Belle and Bonds. MY> Gives me hope for that cross-town World Series this year. Hope or delusions? :-) --- TrekEd 1.00 * Origin: Johnson and Norm, then pray for a storm (1:170/1701) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DFQ00002 Date: 11/20/96 From: PAUL SEPPALA Time: 09:29am \/To: ALAN HESS (Read 2 times) Subj: brain-dead! -> I'm now fully convinced - Pat Gillick is brain-dead. Bad enough he -> pisses off the RLF with the dumb moves he's made or plans to make -> (see below), but now I see they're discussing trading Alomar! That -> would be brilliant - the best second baseman (and one of the best -> all-around players) in baseball, and Gillick is considering shipping -> him out?? Maybe he plans to play Manny in right field and second -> base at the same time? We need pitching - we don't need to change -> the offense. Gillick has lost his marbles - time to fire his butt -> before he destroys the team. What is RLF? The rumoured Alomar-Lofton trade isn't as bad as that. They're both great players. It seems unnecessary but maybe Gillick is worried that Alomar's 97 strike zone will be as big as the Grand Canyon. --- PCBoard (R) v15.3/25 * Origin: Westonia Computer Systems 1:250/636 (416)241-1981 (1:3615/51) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DFQ00003 Date: 11/20/96 From: PAUL SEPPALA Time: 09:39am \/To: ALL (Read 2 times) Subj: Belle Signing What a lot of issues this one raises. First, is it a good signing? Well, Belle is 30 and most likely has already seen his best years. At $10+ M per year he'd have to put up his 95-96 numbers for each of the next 5 years for the WSox to break even on the signing. OTOH, they've taken away their main rival's best hitter. My guess is that it looks good for a couple of years and after that it starts to hurt. Is Reinsdorf crazy? He's reputed to be the "no deal" leader. By voting down the latest proposal he saves himself a couple of mil in luxury taxes and prevents Alex Fernandez from becoming a free agent. I hope this signing opens the eyes of other owners to the self-serving nature of this slime. Whither Cleveland? They looked like they were set till the end of the century. Now Baerga and Belle have gone and Lofton is supposed to be on the block. They still have Ramirez, Thome and Williams so all is not lost. And watch them to make one more big signing. --- PCBoard (R) v15.3/25 * Origin: Westonia Computer Systems 1:250/636 (416)241-1981 (1:3615/51)