--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DF100007 Date: 10/31/96 From: ED GRINNELL Time: 10:29am \/To: PAUL SEPPALA (Read 2 times) Subj: Stoppers The Braves traded Paul Seppala to the Pirates for saying: PS> Jays (a bottom team) and a .500 team actually did. It does look to me PS> like Pettitte's record is quite good, but I'd be curious to see what PS> hentgen's record was and how often Pettitte was pitching behind Rogers PS> or the number 5 starter of the day. I don't know if this will meet your criteria but I did a real quick and dirty analysis of Pettitte, Hentgen and for Milwaukee - McDonald and Karl (Milwaukee was the closest thing to a .500 club in the AL). I have line scores of their final results and it only lists who got the decision. They pitched in other games but didn't get the decision but since you're looking for W-L records, I thought this might do. Here is how they did (Excluding opening day, of course) after a loss and just for grins, after a win (D = Number of decisions after a win/loss): Loss Win D W- L D W- L Pettitte 16 13- 3 13 8- 5 Hentgen 18 13- 5 12 7- 5 McDonald 17 10- 7 5 2- 3 Karl 11 6- 5 11 7- 4 Neagle 15 10- 5 14 7- 7 I hope this helps. Neagle's record, of course, includes his time with Atlanta as well as Pittsburgh. Pitching for Pittsburgh, Neagle was 10-2 after a loss and 4-4 after a win. With Atlanta, he was 0-3 and 3-3, respectively. I threw him in because Pittsburgh finished with the same record as Toronto. --- TrekEd 1.00 * Origin: Johnson and Norm, then pray for a storm (1:170/1701) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DF100008 Date: 10/31/96 From: ED GRINNELL Time: 11:01am \/To: RUSS PAIGE (Read 2 times) Subj: Suspend garcia and other Russ Paige gave up a long homer to Otis Nixon and said: RP> -Free agent salaries out of control. Despite what they try to say in the press, teams are still making a profit. Some teams like the Braves and the Cubs can hide their income behind the entities that own them but it's apparent to anyone that looks that they're still making a lot of money. The money is there for the owners to spend and the players know it. If you want to control salaries then push for the media to stop paying them so much money and then they'll have to lower salaries because they won't be making as much money. RP> -Heck, MINIMUM salaries are out of control. If you're talking about their salary vs yours then you're correct but if you're talking in terms of what their industry pays then it's hardly worth berating them. RP> -Income disparity between large market and small market teams. I'm all for revenue sharing but I'm NOT for profit maximization. Look at SD and how their operation differs from Montreal and Pittsburgh. They've taken a leap of faith and they stand to make MORE money despite the fact that they've spent more. If the owners from Pittsburgh and Montreal don't spend the money that they will get from revenue sharing on the players then they've shown that they don't deserve the money (The Bengals were notorious for this in the NFL. It wasn't until they HAD to spend a MINIMUM that they were able to retain some of their free agents. The Cowboys were just as bad). RP> -Team relocations It hasn't happened in a while but it could. I don't think that I'd put the blame anywhere but on the owners as a collective. RP> -Municipal extortion over team relocations and stadium construction. They can do just like Houston did with the Oilers or better yet, what Oakland did with the Raiders. I'm sure that with a little vision into the future, they'd gladly give Al Davis what he wanted back then. I don't think that the cities that gave their teams new stadiums are regretting it after all is said and done. RP> -Rising ticket prices Baseball STILL remains one of the best buys in all of sports. Ticket prices aren't raised often (Cincinnati hasn't raised theirs in years) and when they are, they're not raised by as much as other sports. RP> -Increasing player violence Are you kidding me? I saw more "violence" back in the '80s. I can still remember some of the more memorable brawls between the Braves and the Padres and I'm sure that other fans can remember just as many as well. Hell, Albert Belle's "rumble" over Vina enraged the media and fans with short memories more than it did former players, who were surprised by the furor caused by something that was quite common many years ago. RP> -Increasing confrontations between players and umpires The owners can put a stop to this by muzzling their umpires and making them accountable. --- TrekEd 1.00 * Origin: Support Pete Rose and Nolan Ryan for the HOF (1:170/1701) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DF100009 Date: 10/31/96 From: ED GRINNELL Time: 03:21pm \/To: DUANE BELTMAN (Read 2 times) Subj: Cy Young Duane Beltman was seen kissing Large Marge and telling us: DB> every category that matters for an individual award such as this one.... DB> he plays for a Canadian team, so he'll be ignored. Playing for a Canadian team will mean nothing to the voters. DB> win than Hentgen... big deal.... Pat would easily have 25 wins if he DB> had the same big bats behind him. It might interest you to know that Pettitte got 5.47 runs per 9 innings from his "big bats" while Hentgen got 5.57. Don't get me wrong, I think that Hentgen deserves the Cy Young but giving it to Pettitte won't be a travesty. --- TrekEd 1.00 * Origin: Johnson and Norm, then pray for a storm (1:170/1701) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DF100010 Date: 10/31/96 From: ED GRINNELL Time: 04:46pm \/To: DUANE BELTMAN (Read 2 times) Subj: Cy Young Duane Beltman was seen kissing Large Marge and telling us: DB> win than Hentgen... big deal.... Pat would easily have 25 wins if he had DB> the same big bats behind him. P.S. - I logged onto AOL and obtained some info and I thought I'd share a bit with you. The following is a breakdown of the runs scored during the games that Pettitte and Hentgen pitched Hentgen Pettitte GM Run Avg GM Run Avg Wins 20 138 6.90 21 145 6.90 Losses 10 28 2.80 8 18 2.25 No Decisions 5 29 5.80 6 34 5.67 Just where do you see 25 wins for Hentgen that Pettitte couldn't also claim? Oh, BTW, Toronto scored 10+ runs 6 times when Hentgen was pitching and 9 runs 2 times. New York scored 10+ runs 10 times for Pettitte and never scored 9 runs (But they did score 8 runs 2 times). --- TrekEd 1.00 * Origin: Johnson and Norm, then pray for a storm (1:170/1701) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DF100011 Date: 10/30/96 From: JAMES DUNLOP Time: 08:27pm \/To: PAUL SEPPALA (Read 2 times) Subj: Fan Interference - Tarrasco In a message of to Terry May (), you wrote: PS> Do you know what the height of the RF fence in Yankee Stadium is? It PS> looked to me that there's enough room between what a player could jump PS> to and the top of the fence. It's ten feet tall, and Tarasco is 6'1". --- The-Box Edit 1.10- PC * Origin: Dunlop Radial Point. Durham, NC. (1:3641/1.206) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DF200000 Date: 10/30/96 From: HANNES ZIERY Time: 10:21am \/To: ED GRINNELL (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: Red Sox Hello Ed! Saturday October 26 1996 15:08, Ed Grinnell wrote to Hannes Ziery: HZ>> Yes but Aguilera didn`t want to stay in Boston any longer and the HZ>> closer market was not so big. I think they acquired one of the best HZ>> available. EG> Only if he puts together a *full* season. I hope he`ll put together one in 97. EG> Slocumb didn't start doing anything until the team was EG> out of EG> the race. They were not out of the race at all. OK nobody thought that the Bosox can make the Play Offs till around mid of August but since then they were back in business. They were out after they lost two games in Chicago after winning the first 10-3 on the 6th of September. They went on with two losses against the Brewers and this was the dead in the wild card race. Of course if Slocumb would have had the same first part of the season as his second was the league standing would have been different. EG> The Red Sox were around the .500 mark in save opportunities EG> before Aguilera came along and then they stopped blowing saves. The EG> team But the difference was that they were on top of the division despite the .500 mark. I think the Bosox were the same good team in 96 as they were in 95 but the other teams got better. Especialy the Yankees and the Oriols. Servus Hannes --- GoldED 2.50+ * Origin: STRUCK EM OUT ON THREE PITCHES (2:316/777.1918) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DF200001 Date: 10/31/96 From: ALLAN JENOFF Time: 02:05pm \/To: PAUL SEPPALA (Read 2 times) Subj: Suspend garcia and other PS> I don't agree that free agent salaries are out of control. PS> They reflect free market bidding. What's wrong with this? PS> I'm in total agreement with you. Player salaries are exactly what owners are willing to pay. No one forces the owners to bid against each other or to overpay. The Expos managed to be competitive this year with a payroll about a third as big as Atlanta's and a quarter the size of New York's. Some players get big salaries because of their performance. Albert Belle, Frank Thomas, and Cecil Fielder earn their bloated paycheques. Some get those big salaries because they bring people into the ballpark, for instance Cal Ripken (whose performance is mediocre but who's the highest paid Oriole), Joe Carter (who has been a disaster the last two years but will still get his $6 million next season), and Ken Griffey Jr. (who probably has less player value than Edgar Martinez but will still end up the highest paid player in baseball). None of those guys is worth his salary as a player, but team revenues would definitely drop without them. And some get that big pay day because the owners messed up - John Olerud has got to be the best example. The only time you can complain about overpayment is in that last case, and that's just a matter of the owners making a mistake. Whenever I start thinking baseball players are overpaid, I just remember Shaq and Jim Kelly. There are a lot of problems facing baseball, but salaries is not one of them. --- KWQ/2 1.2i Internet: ac436@freenet.toronto.on.ca | CIS: 76460,1466 * Origin: FidoNet: CAP/CANADA Support BBS : 416 287-0234 (1:250/710) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DF200002 Date: 10/31/96 From: PAUL SEPPALA Time: 10:59am \/To: LORD STEVEN (Read 2 times) Subj: As I See It -> Actually, it was 1981. I remember it. I HATED the Yankees. Come to -> think of it, I HATED them until this World Series. I was glad to see -> Cecil Fielder have a blast in the playoffs though. He deserved the -> World Series win. Weren't the Yanks beaten by the Dodgers in 81? Agreed about Big Cec tho. He was one of the main reasons I was cheering for the Yanks this year. --- PCBoard (R) v15.3/25 * Origin: Westonia Computer Systems 1:250/636 (416)241-1981 (1:3615/51) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DF300000 Date: 11/02/96 From: RUSS PAIGE Time: 01:32am \/To: ROB WISEMAN (Read 2 times) Subj: Alomar and the ump -=> Quoting Rob Wiseman to Raamah Zivanovic <=- RZ> What's the deal with Alomar?? Something I can't beleive.. In all the RZ> years that I've watched baseball, I've never seen a person spit in RZ> the face of an umpire.. I mean, sure they mouth off to them or RZ> possibly get physical every once in a while, but I've never seen RZ> them spit at one. RW> But too often I've seen umps chase players into the dugout ala RW> Hirschbeck, and instigate the confrontation. Alomar was IN HIS DUGOUT RW> and through with the conversation about the TERRIBLY botched call RW> Hirschbeck made before the ump called him OUT of the dugout to prolong RW> the argument. When Roberto came out, he was ejected IN A PENNANT RACE RW> for an argument instigated by Hirschbeck. That's when the fireworks RW> started. And the spitting was still wrong. You aren't trying to imply that the umpire started the confrontation, are you? Alomar argued a called third strike. As I understand it, that alone is sufficient justification for ejection from the game. The umpire didn't eject Alomar, and instead gave Alomar exactly what Alomar was giving. There is no rule against an umpire arguing a called third strike. There is a rule against a ballplayer arguing a called third strike. According the the Washington Post reporter, when Alomar reached the dugout, the umpire yelled "not another word!" Alomar yelled something back (I can't remember what, but it wasn't a pleasantry), and Hirsch- beck tossed Alomar. Any way you look at it, Alomar had plenty of second chances. Yes, Hirschbeck blew the call, he blew other strike calls that game. Big deal. There is a rule in baseball that says "Umpire is Lord." RZ> I know their are agreements to protect players from being suspended RZ> in post regular season, but doesn't it make sense if you do the RZ> crime that you should pay for the crime?? Give me a break.. At least RZ> the fans are telling Alomar what they think of him.. RW> And what will be Hirschbeck's punishment? He hunted Roberto down the RW> next day to "kill him" and got NOTHING. Hirschbeck did nothing more offensive towards Alomar than Alomar did towards Hirschbeck. Spitting on Hirschbeck was worse than Hirschbeck's tantrum and threats which HIrschbeck made several rooms away from Alomar. Hirschbeck's furious threats were no more offensive than Alomar's comments regarding Hirschbeck's reaction to the death of Hirschbeck's son from an incurable disease. Baseball exists SOLELY because of rules. It's not like greater society, where if you removed the laws, most people would continue to obey the laws just so that society could continue to function. Baseball ONLY functions because RULES define those functions. Alomar broke one of the most hallowed rules in baseball--he flouted the ultimate authority. Alomar's actions are a real threat to the existence of baseball, which depends on the rules and the enforcement of those rules by the ultimate authority--the umpires. Hirschbeck's threats, which were never going to be carried out, posed no such threat to baseball. It would not be cruel and unusual punishment to ban Alomar for a full season. After all, Marge Schott (the big fat idiot) was banned for TWO full seasons for her words--not her actions--which not only had no effect on baseball, they weren't even ABOUT baseball. ... "42? 7 and a half million years and all you can come up with is 42?!" ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.21 [NR] --- InterEcho 1.18 * Origin: JP's Place - Falls Church VA 703.237.5786 (1:109/621) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DF300001 Date: 11/02/96 From: RUSS PAIGE Time: 01:32am \/To: ALAN HESS (Read 2 times) Subj: Amazing! (satan is here) -=> Quoting Alan Hess to All <=- AH> AH> Roberto AH> "Expectorgate" Alomar would not let the Orioles lose. With two outs in AH> the ninth, he singled off of Jose' Mesa to tie the game. In the 12th, AH> he led off with a solo homer that was the winning run in the 4-3 game AH> that clinched the series. AH> Surrounded by the controversy he brought on AH> himself, and followed by a torrent of boos, he nonetheless rose to the AH> occasion in a big game in which his teammates left their bats on the AH> bus. AH> He made a stupid, childish mistake when he spit in Hirschbeck's AH> face (inexcusable no matter what Hirschbeck may have said, and despite AH> the fact that Hirschbeck was the person who kept the argument going by AH> following Alomar to the dugout rather than staying behind the plate), AH> and deserves at least a 10 game suspension at the start of next season, AH> but the guy is a prime-time player. Am I the only one who recognizes what's going on here? It's so obvious. Alomar sold his soul to the Devil, just so that the Devil could arrange a playoff appearance for the O's. The modern version of "Damn Yankees." We need "The Church Lady" to sing the national anthem at the World Series. It's the only way to save baseball. ... "Yield to temptation, it may not pass your way again." - L. Long ___ Blue Wave/386 v2.21 [NR] --- InterEcho 1.18 * Origin: JP's Place - Falls Church VA 703.237.5786 (1:109/621)