--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DBJ00006 Date: 07/14/96 From: SHEA SQUIRES Time: 02:00pm \/To: ALAN HESS (Read 2 times) Subj: B-Yups vs. C-Yups? -> The Indians play in a new stadium, with skyboxes, quiche, relatively -> high ticket prices, etc., just as the Orioles do. One would thus -> assume that the fans at Jacobs Field are as white-collar as the fans -> at Camden Yards, yet Indian fans make noise and get into the games. -> So, why are their Yuppies different from ours (or are they?) Maybe -> the Indians simply play better in front of their fans? Isn't that the same way the CLEVELAND BROWNS were? --- Platinum Xpress/386/Wildcat! v1.2c * Origin: The First and Ten BBS : 1-(904)-276-9234 (1:112/2713) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DBJ00007 Date: 07/14/96 From: ED GRINNELL Time: 08:04pm \/To: PAUL MCENANY (Read 2 times) Subj: Al All Star Team Paul was waived by Sparky Anderson and then ranted: PM> Sounds like your picking the players you like the best not the ones with PM> the best numbers. While James does have his favorites, his choices are usually well founded. --- TrekEd 1.00 * Origin: Striking a blow to purists (1:170/1701) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DBJ00008 Date: 07/14/96 From: PAUL MCENANY Time: 04:10pm \/To: ISRAEL VELEZ (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: Ozzie Smith, an All-star!?!?!? Then we should make an all future hall of famers team. But he had no business player on the All-star team for this year. Paul McEnany Dallas, Tx --- CNet/3 * Origin: [FidoNet] Christian \o/ Retreat * Lewisville, TX * (1:124/3266) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DBJ00009 Date: 07/14/96 From: BOB WINCHESTER Time: 12:31pm \/To: ED BOGGESS (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: Yanks EB> Any Yankees fans out there? If so, write back and we'll talk some Yankee EB> baseball. I grew up a Yankee fan. Life in Michigan wasn't too good as a Yankee fan but going to a Tiger - Yankee game and watching Mickey and Roger coult a couple was excellent. I enjoyed Whitey Ford and Ralph Terry also. When we stayed n the same hotel with the team for 3 days and I got a ball autographed in 1961 it was unbeleavable. --- Renegade v5-11 Exp * Origin: Tokyo Express (616)673-6015 (1:228/122) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DBJ00010 Date: 07/14/96 From: JAMES DUNLOP Time: 11:23am \/To: BRUCE MARSHALL (Read 2 times) Subj: All-Star Picks In a message of to James Dunlop (), you wrote: BM> I really don't think Henry's going to turn out to be a disappointment, BM> unless of course his ego runs amuck (With Phillippe there, I doubt that BM> will happen). Almost all top players have an "ego", it's part of what drove them to be the best in the first place. Look at the best player in baseball for the last six years, Barry Bonds. People don't like him because of his "ego". Of course, like Albert Belle, the media likes to play up this for players they don't like personally.. For Bonds, or Belle, it's "an attitude", for Cal Ripken, it's "determination". Anyway, I don't think Henry's "ego" is going to be a problem. His future production will. He's going to be out of a job in a year, unless he forces Segui (another late bloomer over his head last season) out of a job instead. With Moises Alou, Rondell White and Cliff Floyd, there's no room in the outfield. (A healthy White and Floyd are far superior players to Rodriguez.) Plus Guerrero and Benitez coming up from the minors. Montreal's best move would be to trade Rodriguez when his value is highest. JD> Grissom's another overrated player. For a leadoff hitter to have an OBP JD> of .336 is terrible. BM> Like I sai, to me he is one of the best, if not the best defensive CF in BM> baseball (yes, even above JR.). But, like I said, defensive CF. JR Phillips plays center? You haven't been paying attention to my non-Montreal messages, if you think *I* think Ken Griffey Jr. is the best fielding center fielder in the majors. Grissom certainly is at the top THAT list (or very close to it.) It's just he shouldn't be at the top of a neup. BM> I also beleive that Grisso was the reason that the Braves were able to o BM> from contenders to champions. Grissom? Why not Maddux? McGriff? Both of these guys are more valuable players than Grissom. Wohlers developing helped, too. --- The-Box Edit 1.10- PC * Origin: Dunlop Radial Point. Durham, NC. (1:3641/1.206) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DBJ00011 Date: 07/14/96 From: JAMES DUNLOP Time: 11:36am \/To: PAUL MCENANY (Read 2 times) Subj: Al All Star Team In a message of to James Dunlop (), you wrote: PM> Sounds like your picking the players you like the best not the ones with PM> the best numbers. Such as? It might help if you'd QUOTE something that supports what you're saying. Looking at the last message I sent you, it seems your entire argument is that "Pudge Rodriguez is the best catcher in the American League, and anybody who thinks otherwise is stupid." I've listed my reasons for selecting Wilson and Steinbach, based on the statistics, ALL the statistics, not just selected ones, your only retort is to call me ignorant or stupid. Well, let's look at the statistics again, using the all-star break numbers... BA SLG OBA AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS SBA CSA PCT. ERR Rodriguez.313 .497 .351 342 62 107 27 3 10 49 20 33 3 0 26 21 .553 5 Wilson .308 .491 .357 273 31 84 14 0 12 52 20 47 1 1 34 26 .567 2 Steinbach.271 .525 .346 280 42 76 17 0 18 46 28 57 0 1 45 24 .652 5 In the two weeks since I selected my team, Pudge has pushed his numbers up a bit, Wilson's been in a bit of a slump. At the time I made my selections, Wilson's key offensive stats (SLG and OBA) were all higher than Rodriguez. On defense, the stolen base records are similar, with a small edge to Rodriguez. But based on previous years' statistics (because this year's aren't available), from one of the STATS INC. books, Wilson's overall defense is better. With his offense being better at the time, Wilson, to me, was an easy choice as all-star starter. (The Texas and Seattle ballparks are similar in affecting hitting.) Regarding Steinbach, his 28 point advantage in slugging was more impressive to me than Rodriguez's 5 point advantage in on-base percentage, doing this in a tougher ballpark to hit. Very close, but I chose Steinbach. --- The-Box Edit 1.10- PC * Origin: Dunlop Radial Point. Durham, NC. (1:3641/1.206) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DBJ00012 Date: 07/13/96 From: JAMES DUNLOP Time: 11:57am \/To: ALLAN KAUFMAN (Read 2 times) Subj: Not in world series yet In a message of to Marty Blaise (), you wrote: MB> Other than the Houston Astros, are there any ML teams that have MB> never appeared in a World Series? AK> NL AK> Expos AK> Marlins AK> Rockies AK> AL AK> Mariners AK> Brewers Harvey's Wallbangers of 1982 might disagree with you. AK> Rangers AK> Angels I remember it this way. All 16 "original" teams have won the World Series, the Phillies being the last to win their first, in 1980. Of the '61-'62 expansion teams, only the Mets have made it to the World Series, leaving the Astros, Angels and Senators/Rangers. Of the '69 group, the Royals have won, the Padres and Pilots/Brewers made it once each. Of the '77 two, the Blue Jays have won, the Mariners are still waiting. And the Marlins and Rockies are still waiting as well. Other tidbits. The Braves were the first to win in two, and now three cities, representing Boston, Milwaukee and now Atlanta. Others to win in two cities are the A's (Philly and Oakland), Dodgers (Brooklyn and LA) and the Twins (Washington and Minneapolis). The Giants haven't won in SF yet, and the Orioles never won as the St. Louis Browns. --- The-Box Edit 1.10- PC * Origin: Dunlop Radial Point. Durham, NC. (1:3641/1.206) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DBJ00013 Date: 07/14/96 From: JAMES DUNLOP Time: 12:42am \/To: BOB KOHL (Read 2 times) Subj: Rangers In a message of to Scott Zolnoski (1:105/37), you wrote: BK> The Cubs and Detroit Tigers are champs at lousy deals. The Cubs traded BK> away Joe Carter for a second rate pitcher. That same pitcher was ashed BK> after 3 seasons and never did all that well for the Cubs. Dick Ruthvan BK> wasn't worth a trade of any kind. Well maybe a water boy or two! Second rate pitcher? Same guy who went 16-1 for them, and won the Cy Young Award, not to mention lead the club to their first post season appearance in almost forty years? Yep, second rate, alright. And washed up after three seasons and never did all that well? Let's see, the 16-1 was in 1984, the 18-10 (leading the league in wins) was 1987, the 16-11 was in 1989. Of course, *I'M* talking about Rick Sutcliffe, not Dick Ruthven. Now, he didn't last as long as Carter has, and Sutcliffe's ERA was nowhere near Sutcliffe's ERA at the end, but it was a very worthwhile deal for the Cubs. Another lousy deal, of course, was trading Ivan DeJesus for Larry Bowa. Had to take some minor leaguer's contract in the deal, along with Bowa. Every team's made some good trades and some bad ones. BK> The Tigers have traded away players to the same league. Those players BK> back to Detroit and thank the Tigers, by beating the crap out of them. BK> example Rocky Colavito. The Tigers traded him after some poor seasons BK> he had a great season the following year. And he hit more homeruns, BK> especially in Detroit. What was so different in Colavito's first three seasons in Detroit than his only one in KC? His second and third (of four) seasons in Detroit were better than any of his years after Detroit. And what about the trade the brought Colavito TO Detroit in the first place? Doesn't that count for anything. BK> The Cubs specialize in trading away future talent. More really good BK> players started in the Cubs organization and were traded to teams hich BK> used them to fill in the gaps and win a championship. I used to follow BK> the Cubs when I had Cable TV. Don't you know the rule that any club with more than two ex-Cubs can't win the World Series? What talent have they traded away in bad trades (the Carter+ for Suttcliffe+ deal was NOT a bad trade for the Cubs) who have gone on to win championships? BK> The Cubs are the type of team which would trade away a future Cy Young BK> Award winner for a used up pitcher and a hamhanded infielder. I guess What future Cy Young Award winner was ever traded from the Cubs? Greg Maddux doesn't count, he wasn't traded. --- The-Box Edit 1.10- PC * Origin: Dunlop Radial Point. Durham, NC. (1:3641/1.206) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DBJ00014 Date: 07/14/96 From: JAMES DUNLOP Time: 12:59am \/To: TIM REPINE (Read 2 times) Subj: All-Star Picks In a message of to James Dunlop (), you wrote: TR> I have to agree with you on the fact that Chipper is a better TR> player..But as to building your team around a young player, I would have TR> to go with Griffey JR. He is still only 25!!! Ah, 27 this November. No longer considered "young" in baseball terms. --- The-Box Edit 1.10- PC * Origin: Dunlop Radial Point. Durham, NC. (1:3641/1.206) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DBJ00015 Date: 07/14/96 From: JAMES DUNLOP Time: 01:01am \/To: ED GRINNELL (Read 2 times) Subj: All-Star Picks In a message of to James Dunlop (1:3641/1.206), you wrote: EG> This IS the fans' game and I think that it should remain that way. I think EG> that the league should expand the rosters to 40 with AT LEAST 3 and up o EG> 5 of those as sentimental favorites like Ozzie Smith. Not everyone would EG> play but at least they'd be able to get recognized. I get so tired of guys EG> missing because of the politics and while this won't eliminate it, it will EG> help keep the numbers down. Why add players? Should be really be "honoring" the third or fourth best players at a position? That's what you'd be doing by adding to the rosters. Best way to even out the fan vote is to do it by precincts, or more accurately, like the MVP vote. Each city/ballpark is has one ballot, and players get points from 14 to 1, depending how they do in that ballpark or city. This way, Colorado's stuffing the ballot for Dante Bichette counts as much as Montreal voting for Henry Rodriguez. There's a couple of variations that could be made (for NL voting, for instance, each NL city counts as 1 (for 14 areas), the total AL counts for 1, and voting at Texaco stations counts for 1, adding up to 16 parts. Or count each ballpark as 1, making 29 parts (including the Texaco and mail-in vote.) --- The-Box Edit 1.10- PC * Origin: Dunlop Radial Point. Durham, NC. (1:3641/1.206)