--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DB400058 Date: 06/29/96 From: JAMES DUNLOP Time: 07:13pm \/To: RUSS PAIGE (Read 2 times) Subj: Bowie Kuhn In a message of to James Dunlop (), you wrote: RP> You're going to have to be a little more specific than "his dealings ith RP> Charlie Finley." What dealings? What precedent? RP> Bowie Kuhn blocked the outright sale of three of the best Oakland layers RP> the Red Sox and the Yankees. I don't remember the Red Sox-designated RP> players, but Joe Rudi was offered to the Yanks. Bowie Kuhn blocked the RP> sale RP> because it was not in the best interests of baseball to allow two of the RP> richest and most competitive teams load up on talent from one of the RP> poorest teams, leaving that poor team with no means to improve its RP> competitiveness. No, by denying the sales, Kuhn left the A's with no means to improve its competitiveness. Counter to previous "sales" of players (Connie Mack, for instance, did it TWICE, you may have heard of a guy named Ruth being sold by the Red Sox to the Yankees), forcing Finley to keep the players (Blue to the Yankees, Fingers and Rudi to the Red Sox), the A's lost any hope of compensation. (They were all free agents.) With the money he would have received, he could have built back his farm system, or even kept the other players that were free agents (Bando, Tenace, Campanaris, Baylor et al.) By putting an artificial limit on the money that could be received, Kuhn restricted the A's chances of being competitive. This was OK'ed by the other owners, mainly because they couldn't stand Charlie Finley either. As a side note, what Finley had over other "crazy" owners like Ted Turner and George Steinbrenner was that he really KNEW his baseball. Turner's Braves didn't get better until he turned over the team to people who knew baseball, but it sure wasn't like that in '76, after signing "Channel 17" Andy Messersmith, and hiring himself as manager for a day. George started well, mainly because he let Gabe Paul and others run the team, and make good baseball decision. Since he's run the show (or run the baseball people out), it hasn't been as good. RP> "In the best interests of baseball" is the Commissioners charter. It is RP> standard which all his actions must meet. Even though I was a staunch RP> Yankee RP> fan at the time, I had to admit that Kuhn's conclusion about the sales was RP> true. Now, twenty years later, Bud Selig sits idly by and watches the San RP> Diego Padres sell off their best players at bargain prices to richer, RP> better teams. Bud Selig is no Commissioner. Bowie Kuhn was. And three years after trading McGriff and Sheffield, the Padres are competitive again, their recent slump not withstanding. Their "sale" was nothing other than trying to rebuild. The Astros, after stripping their club of overpriced veterans in a similar "sale" are also right back in the middle of things. Who has more baseball value now, Bruce Hurst and Greg W. Harris, or Brad Ausmus? While the three players for McGriff didn't work out as well as they'd thought, Trevor Hoffman's a pretty valuable pitcher, and I believe they also got a decent minor league prospect in the deal as well. There is nothing wrong with a "fire sale" from a baseball standpoint. It allows a team to turn diminishing assets (veteran players) into something with more potential (minor leaguers or young players) to allow that club to be competitive in the future. And this has happened many times before in baseball history. Bowie Kuhn went against past rulings and history by restricting Charlie Finley's ability to compete. --- The-Box Edit 1.10- PC * Origin: Dunlop Radial Point. Durham, NC. (1:3641/1.206) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DB400059 Date: 06/30/96 From: JAMES DUNLOP Time: 11:38am \/To: VIRGINIA BLALOCK (Read 2 times) Subj: Belle In a message of to Caleb Kim (1:107/310), you wrote: VB> If it were Cal, there would not have been an elbow thrown. WHAT ELBOW?!? There was no elbow, let's stop blowing this thing up and up by continuing to post false statements. Belle's arms were in front of him, his forearms hit Vina. Never was it his elbow (unlike, say, JR Reid hitting AC Green last spring.) --- The-Box Edit 1.10- PC * Origin: Dunlop Radial Point. Durham, NC. (1:3641/1.206) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DB400060 Date: 06/30/96 From: JAMES DUNLOP Time: 06:15pm \/To: ALL (Read 2 times) Subj: NL All Star Team Here's one person's all star team for the NL. Following the rules, there are 28 players, and at least one representative from each team. As per my usual practice, one pitching spot goes to a setup/middle reliever (this time it's Antonio Osuna of the Dodgers.) Starters are listed first. Outfielders are selected by position (I fudged a little, and moved Ellis Burks to center.) Catcher: Mike Piazza, Todd Hundley First: Jeff Bagwell, John Mabry, Fred McGriff Second: Carlos Garcia, Eric Young Third: Matt Williams, Chipper Jones Short: Barry Larkin, Mark Grudzielanek Left: Barry Bonds, Bernard Gilkey Center: Ellis Burks, Lance Johnson Right: Gary Sheffield, Henry Rodriguez Starters: John Smoltz, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, Kevin Brown, Andy Ashby, Steve Trachsel, Al Leiter Closers: Rickey Bottalico, Trevor Hoffman, Rod Beck Setup: Antonio Osuna --- The-Box Edit 1.10- PC * Origin: Dunlop Radial Point. Durham, NC. (1:3641/1.206) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DB400061 Date: 06/30/96 From: JAMES DUNLOP Time: 06:22pm \/To: ALL (Read 2 times) Subj: Al All Star Team Here's one person's all star team for the AL. Following the rules, there are 28 players, and at least one representative from each team. (Hence the presence of Mark Lewis.) As per my usual practice, one pitching spot goes to a setup/middle reliever (this time it's Mariano Rivera of the Yankees.) Starters are listed first. Outfielders are selected by position. Catcher: Dan Wilson, Terry Steinbach First: Mo Vaughn, Frank Thomas, Edgar Martinez Second: Roberto Alomar, Chuck Knoblauch, Mark Lewis Third: Jim Thome, Dean Palmer Short: Alex Rodriguez, Cal Ripken Left: Albert Belle, Greg Vaughn Center: Brady Anderson, Bernie Williams Right: Jay Buhner, Tim Salmon Starters: Charles Nagy, Shawn Boskie, Kevin Tapani, Andy Pettitte, Darren Oliver, Juan Guzman Closers: Troy Percival, Roberto Hernandez, Jeff Montgomery Setup: Mariano Rivera --- The-Box Edit 1.10- PC * Origin: Dunlop Radial Point. Durham, NC. (1:3641/1.206) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DB400062 Date: 06/30/96 From: JAMES DUNLOP Time: 06:27pm \/To: ALL (Read 2 times) Subj: Triple A Expansion The major league expansion in '98 has created the need for three new locations for Triple A ballclubs, one to relocate the Phoenix Redbirds, the other two as expansion sites for Tampa Bay and Arizona. The Phoenix club has already agreed to move to Fresno. The other two need to be in the same league for scheduling. Back in March, applications were received from Fresno, Bowie MD, Durham and Puerto Rico. Fresno, of course, came to the agreement with the Phoenix club, and the Puerto Rico application was rejected. That left two teams. At least, it did until the Durham Bulls club removed their application. The owner of the team, Jim Goodmon (who also owns the local CBS affiliate, WRAL. Those of you with dishes can get WRAL) said that the cost (7.5million) for the expansion franchise was too much. In addition, the Bulls have a very good working relationship with the Atlanta Braves, and the Braves were not ready to give up their current AAA team in Richmond. That left only one, the Bowie team. But Friday, it was announced that the Bulls reached an agreement with the Tampa Bay Devil Rays to become their AAA team, starting in 1998. The Rays agreed to a one-quarter share of the Bulls, to overcome the high cost of the expansion team. In addition, the City of Durham will pay about one million dollars to expand the new Durham Bulls Athletic Park to meet AAA standards. The two year old park was designed with AAA standards in mind, and the only work that needs to be done is to build permanent seating in the outfield to increase capacity to over 10,000. The Bulls, with a current capacity of around 9,000 including standees, already outdraw four International League teams, Charlotte,Rochester, Syracuse and Toledo. It's likely that the Orioles will move their AAA team to Bowie, which would open up Rochester for another team. Look for the Pirates to try for Rochester, leaving Calgary (perhaps the most undesirable AAA affiliate because of location) for a west coast team like Arizona. --- The-Box Edit 1.10- PC * Origin: Dunlop Radial Point. Durham, NC. (1:3641/1.206) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DB500000 Date: 07/02/96 From: JAMES DUNLOP Time: 06:16pm \/To: NATE SCHULTZ (Read 2 times) Subj: Mets suck again In a message of to Caleb Kim (1:107/310), you ote: NS> Mets REALLY SUCK! Nice, intelligent statement. Been watching too much Letterman? NS> Whats wrong with Izzy and Wilson???? Some prospects! Wilson has a torn muscle in his shoulder. Isringhausen? Don't know. It is a bit early to panic, however. Check this record... 6-14, 5.61 era, 181 hits allowed in 155 innings. Whose record is this? Greg Maddux, in his second major league season. --- The-Box Edit 1.10- PC * Origin: Dunlop Radial Point. Durham, NC. (1:3641/1.206) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DB500001 Date: 07/02/96 From: JAMES DUNLOP Time: 06:21pm \/To: RIC JOHNSON (Read 2 times) Subj: Rangers In a message of to Allan Kaufman (), you wrote: RJ> Lessee, last year, I believe the World Series was won by Atlanta. If RJ> memory serves me right, it gets pretty hot in Atlanta in August, too. Nowhere near as bad as Dallas, though. Of course, there is still Houston. (Good reason for them to play inside.) RJ> the manager is much more even keeled than recent guys like Kevin RJ> Kennedy and Bobby Valentine. He keeps them focused on the task at RJ> hand. Need more proof of that? Look at the O's record under Oates and RJ> then look at what has transpired since. Look at the Rangers record RJ> under Kennedy and what has happened in Texas since (and Boston). Let's see. Seems I remember the Red Sox WINNING a division last year, something the Rangers have never done. The O's are five games back. Not that far behind right now (ask the Angels just what a five game lead in July means.) --- The-Box Edit 1.10- PC * Origin: Dunlop Radial Point. Durham, NC. (1:3641/1.206) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DB500002 Date: 07/02/96 From: JAMES DUNLOP Time: 06:26pm \/To: MARK YODER (Read 2 times) Subj: NL All Star Team In a message of to James Dunlop (1:3641/1.206), you wrote: JD> Catcher: Mike Piazza, Todd Hundley JD> First: Jeff Bagwell, John Mabry, Fred McGriff JD> Second: Carlos Garcia, Eric Young JD> Third: Matt Williams, Chipper Jones JD> Short: Barry Larkin, Mark Grudzielanek JD> Left: Barry Bonds, Bernard Gilkey JD> Center: Ellis Burks, Lance Johnson JD> Right: Gary Sheffield, Henry Rodriguez JD> Starters: John Smoltz, Greg Maddux, Tom Glavine, Kevin Brown, Andy shby, JD> Steve Trachsel, Al Leiter JD> Closers: Rickey Bottalico, Trevor Hoffman, Rod Beck JD> Setup: Antonio Osuna MY> WHAT??? No Mark Grace... No Sammy Sosa... Needed Mabry to represent the Cards, plus overall he's doing better. Sosa? Nice that he leads in homers, I'd rather take the guy doing better overall, hence Rodriguez. Of course, seems Bobby Cox agrees with you. --- The-Box Edit 1.10- PC * Origin: Dunlop Radial Point. Durham, NC. (1:3641/1.206) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DB500003 Date: 07/03/96 From: PERRY KNOPP Time: 11:58am \/To: RUSS PAIGE (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: Belle -> -> This is EXACTLY the justification that many posters use to defend -> Belle's actions. As you have pointed out, they are being illogical -> to use such a justification. Did you post a message making that -> clear to them? Well Russ how are you doing? For the record I thought what happened to you sucked. Now to the topic at hand. How is what Belle did any different than what Pete Rose did to Ray Fosse in the All-Star game. (In 70 I believe) Perry P.S. I hope to see you back again. --- Platinum Xpress/386/Wildcat! v1.2j * Origin: B's Board Fun for all ages (304)295-7156 (1:2210/60) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: DB500004 Date: 07/03/96 From: PAUL SEPPALA Time: 10:20am \/To: RIC JOHNSON (Read 2 times) Subj: Re: Rangers -> Ah, but this a'int the same old Rangers as we have all known. These -> guys have something going for them that hasn't been here in a long -> time. Chemistry!! It was never allowed to come to the surface when -> Valentine or Kennedy was here at the reins. Look at what is happening -> in Boston, now. Yeah, they have sustained a lot of injury, but there -> is something else wrong with that club. Kennedy hasn't a clue how to -> get the best out of the talent he has. Look at how Seattle has played -> since Jr and Johnson have gone down. Look how the Rangers played when -> Gonzales and Clark were down. -> As far as the Angel collapse of last year, they had nobody to blame -> but themselves. Does not mean it will happen to the Rangers. And if -> it Well, Texas' pitching could easily falter. Ken Hill hasn't looked good for about a month and henneman in the bullpen must make Rangers fans nervous whenever he comes out. As the owner of both of them in my fantasy league, they sure make me nervous. OTOH, if Gonzalez can stay healthy for a while then this really boosts the offense. I figure that the AL West will be a toss-up right through to September. --- PCBoard (R) v15.3/25 (06-04-96 17:0 * Origin: Westonia Computer Systems 1:250/636 (416)241-1981 (1:250/636)