--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: D5P00037 Date: 05/11/96 From: DAVID LENTZ Time: 10:46am \/To: JAMES DUNLOP (Read 1 times) Subj: Reggie Jackson James, In a message of 5/02/1996 to ALLAN KAUFMAN , you wrote: JD> AK> Greg when Jackson played for the A's he had a great throwing arm w JD> AK> best rightfielder in the game for the early seventies. He stole ba JD> AK> hit for average,power, and very clutch. Reggie really murdered the JD> AK> Sox.I'll never forget one weekend when he went crazy at fenway tot JD> AK> destroyed the Sox. JD> JD> The naysayers regarding Reggie keep pointing to his career average, and JD> fact that he "only hit .300 once." Those so fixated on batting average JD> never recognize that Reggie, or one of my favorites, Darrell Evans, (an JD> that matter, his "brother" Dwight) were far superior to most of the .30 JD> hitters. I raise in support. I think that just hitting .300 hundred is very much over rated. In Rochester, the Red Wings( Orioles AAA) have a major league career .293 hitter moaning about still being in the minors. Luis Polonia is saying that he is better than a hundred players on the major league roster and is moaning about not being called up. I would contend that even if Polonia was a career .300 hitter that he is the type of player with limited value. Polonia only plays one position, left field, has unexceptional on-base percentage, constantly turns hits into outs and is devoid of power. Are we to consider Polonia, a three time .300 hitter, a better player than Reggie Jackson? I would not. In fact, Jackson has a better career on-base percentage than Polonia,.358 versus .344. Happy Modeming - David --- * MegaMail 2.10 #1132: * KMail 3.10m Knight Moves --- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406 * Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: D5P00038 Date: 05/11/96 From: DAVID LENTZ Time: 11:04am \/To: ALLAN KAUFMAN (Read 1 times) Subj: Reggie Jackson Allan, In a message of 5/05/1996, you wrote: AK> JD> average, and the fact that he "only hit .300 once." Those so AK> JD> fixated on batting average will never recognize that Reggie, or AK> JD> one of my favorites, Darrell Evans, (and for that matter, his AK> JD> "brother" Dwight) were far superior to most of the .300 hitters. AK> AK> Players like Jackson and Evans (Darrell and his other brother Darrell) AK> very clutch. Reggie was the better of the two, but i take either one. I AK> 9 Darrell Evans' over 9 Wade Boggs'. Boggs would go 4-5 with no R.B.I.' AK> would take a walk to protect his average than hit a ground ball to the AK> side to score a run. AK> As for Dwight he belongs in the Red Sox HOF, but not in Cooperstown. I am going to reserve judgement on the question of nine Darrell Evans versus nine Wade Boggs. However I suspect that most starting pitchers would rather face the Evans line-up than the Boggs line-up. Imagine the pressure of having to make perfect pitches to all nine batters. The pitchers would self-destruct in total fustration. Combining Boggs on-base percentage and his total of over four pitchs per at-bat, pitching to the Boggs line-up would be murder on a pitcher's arm and his chances of recording a complete game. There would be a certain sadist pleasure of having a batting order of nine Boggs, prime vintage. You might not win the pennant but opposing pitchers nad manager would utterly hate you. Happy Modeming - David --- * MegaMail 2.10 #1132: * KMail 3.10m Knight Moves --- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406 * Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: D5P00039 Date: 05/10/96 From: MARK YODER Time: 08:51pm \/To: PAIGE MILLER (Read 1 times) Subj: Al-O-Mar Thursday May 09 1996 06:44, Paige Miller wrote to Mark Yoder: DL>> I accept that my process is not what you would call correlation. MY>> Amazing... 8-) PM> Who says you can't teach an old dog new tricks? I dunno.. but they're usually right. -= .\\ark =- ... Bad officials: elected by good citizens who fail to vote. --- GoldED/2 2.50+ 1547US3 * Origin: Pro Shop/2 : Fayetteville, NC : USR V34 : (910) 864-8898 (1:3634/22) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: D5P00040 Date: 05/10/96 From: MARK YODER Time: 09:30pm \/To: ED GRINNELL (Read 1 times) Subj: Al-O-Mar Ed Grinnell was beaned by Jose Canseco wild pitch for saying: MY>> Holy Sheep-shooie... here we go again. Did someone bring back Ray MY>> Nardella from the incarnate? EG> Sorry, Mark but watching him play and watching those numbers WILL leave EG> you scratching your head as to why this "god-like" quality has been iven EG> to the numbers when they have no basis in reality. They measure his productivity and achievement. I'm surprised that someone who understands numbers as well as you do would say that his performance statistics somehow aren't the real truth... If they don't pertain to Alomar, do they pertain to anyone else? -= .\\ark =- ... "The only victory over love is flight." Napoleon --- GoldED/2 2.50+ 1547US3 * Origin: "NO WAY" to Interleague Play (1:3634/22) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: D5P00041 Date: 05/10/96 From: MARK YODER Time: 08:52pm \/To: TRENT WOODRUFF (Read 1 times) Subj: You Call It Trent Woodruff was let go on waivers for saying to Mark Yoder: MY>> Second, it doesn't matter anyway, because if the ball MY>> hits anything before it hits the batter (assuming it isn't a foul tip) MY>> it is *not* a dead ball. Play continues, runners advance at their own MY>> peril. TW> Even if it contacts the batter while in foul territory? Yes. -= .\\ark =- ... Grow up?!? Trent never finished his _first_ childhood. :-) --- GoldED/2 2.50+ 1547US3 * Origin: Rushmore II: Rockne, Leahy, Parsegian & Holtz (1:3634/22) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: D5P00042 Date: 05/10/96 From: MARK YODER Time: 09:03pm \/To: TRENT WOODRUFF (Read 1 times) Subj: You Call It Trent Woodruff was let go on waivers for saying to Mark Yoder: MY>> BZZZZZT. If the ball hits the batter while he's in the batters box, MY>> before it strikes anything else, it is a dead ball and he is awarded MY>> first base. If it strikes anything else before it hits the batter MY>> (except for the bat), it is a live ball, and would likely be called a MY>> wild pitch or a passed ball. TW> I don't know. I'll take your word for it, because I really DON'T now... TW> but that just doesn't "sound right" to me. It just seems that if the ball TW> touches the offensive player, in foul territory, that it would be a dead TW> ball. I umpire quite a bit, and haven't ever seen anything that really TW> addresses this. Could you point me in the right direction, so that if I TW> DO (somehow) have to make this call, I can back myself up? Trent... let me make one clarification on the above. If the pitcher throws the ball and it hits the ground before it hits the batter, but *only* hits the ground prior to hitting the batter, the batter is awarded first base. In the case we were discussing (hitting the catcher first), let's make some assumptions for our case: Case 1: Runners are on base, ball hits the catcher (does not hit the ground) then hits the batter. In this case, according to 10.15, the correct call would be a passed ball. On a passed ball, the ball remains in play and runners advance at their own peril. Rule 10.15(b): A catcher shall be charged with a passed ball when he fails to hold or control a legally pitched ball which should have been held or controlled with ordinary effort, thereby permitting the runners to advance. Case 2: Runners are on base, ball hits the ground, then the catcher then hits the batter. In this case, according to 10.15, the correct call would be a wild pitch. On a wild pitch, the ball remains in play and runners advance at their own peril. Rule 10.15(a): A wild pitch shall be charged when a legally delivered ball is so high, or so wide, or so low tha tthe catcher does not stop and control the ball by ordinary effort, thereby permitting a runner(s) to advance. Case 3: No runners on base, either of the above scenarios occur. The only difference in these cases from our example is that you wouldn't score a wild pitch or a passed ball only because there is no runner to advance. The ball is still live, but it doens't really matter because nobody is going anywhere. -= .\\ark =- ... Trent, sorry about your rectocranial inversion. --- GoldED/2 2.50+ 1547US3 * Origin: Fighting Irish Fan Club (1:3634/22) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: D5P00043 Date: 05/11/96 From: MARK YODER Time: 01:31pm \/To: DAVID LENTZ (Read 1 times) Subj: Al-O-Mar David Lentz was let go on waivers for saying to Mark Yoder: DL> I wrote this to Ed a while back: DL> I have gone through my entire process, and stand-by my results DL> as indicating the degree of difference in the relative order of DL> two sets of data. Is this what professional statisticians call DL> correlation? I am not sure. I am sure that my program works. I know.. I read it the first time. DL> I continue to stand-by that statement. I know.. and it's still rediculous. I can write a program and generate a bunch of numbers, too. That doesn't mean they're worth a hoot. DL> Will have to wait to a trip to Borders to find a book on statistics DL> to explain the diffence between statistical, conventional, DL> correlation and my process, which I am tenatively calling rank DL> correlation. First you say that your process isn't something that a professional statistician would call "correlation", then you say you're tentatively calling your process "correlation." Is this really Ray? -= .\\ark =- ... Pardon my driving,David. I'm trying to reload. --- GoldED/2 2.50+ 1547US3 * Origin: Fighting Irish Fan Club (1:3634/22) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: D5P00044 Date: 05/11/96 From: MARK YODER Time: 01:46pm \/To: DAVID LENTZ (Read 1 times) Subj: B*tch in Cincy, Part III While playing "Finger Licking Good" with The Chicken, David Lentz said: MY>> Well, barely 7 weeks in to the season, and Large Marge Schott-off-her-m MY>> at it again. For those of you who missed it, Marge has an affinity for MY>> and says that everyone knows he started out good, with the right intent DL> What I like about Marge Schott is that she make George Stienbrenner DL> look like premier number one good citizen. Yeah.. sure. A real grade-A chap.... -= .\\ark =- ... Anyone can get lost in a fog, but David creates his own. --- GoldED/2 2.50+ 1547US3 * Origin: Fighting Irish Fan Club (1:3634/22) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: D5P00045 Date: 05/11/96 From: MARK YODER Time: 02:00pm \/To: DAVID LENTZ (Read 1 times) Subj: Mattingly or Rice David Lentz caught a foul-tip in the mask for saying: DL> Your implication is that if Garvey is a probable Hall of Famer and DL> Hernandez and Mattingly were better that Hernandez and Mattingly DL> should also get elected. Reasonable scenario. DL> However, my personal opinion is that none of the three deserve to DL> be elected. Of contemporary first basemen, I suppose the eventual DL> election of Eddie Murray, the finest career first basemen in recent DL> memory. Coming from the guy who doesn't think Ryan deserves election, that really says a lot, David. -= .\\ark =- ... We have secretly replaced David's brain with Folger's Crystals. --- GoldED/2 2.50+ 1547US3 * Origin: Fighting Irish Fan Club (1:3634/22) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: D5P00046 Date: 05/11/96 From: MARK YODER Time: 02:02pm \/To: DAVID LENTZ (Read 1 times) Subj: Mattingly or Rice While courting the Morris Dancers, David Lentz said: JD>> What the heck are you talking about? Reggie's overall numbers are exce JD>> If I had them handy, I'd show you exactly what I mean. (And contrary t JD>> statement, the statistics do not back him as a "clutch" player.) DL> I have the same reservations about both yours and Greg comments, how DL> do you define or much less measure clutch hitting? I am sure in my DL> gut that clutch hitting exists. What I am unsure of is how to DL> define a statistic that define clutch hitting. I'm sure you can write a program for it... probably generate some kind of numbers. -= .\\ark =- ... "Men, in general, are but great, great children." Napoleon --- GoldED/2 2.50+ 1547US3 * Origin: Corner of Clark & Addison (1:3634/22)