--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: D5P00027 Date: 05/19/96 From: ED GRINNELL Time: 05:47pm \/To: JAMES DUNLOP (Read 1 times) Subj: Al-O-Mar James was waived by Sparky Anderson and then ranted: JD> Of course Tuffy lost his battle with the BAT, the fielding wasn't his JD> main problem. Rhodes' .234 was bad but it wasn't as bad as his .964 FP. With the average ZP for CF being .824, he managed a .862 and it simply didn't jive with what was going on in the field. I get another good laugh at the fact that while they'll make no concession to positioning or pitching staff, they also overlooked his range factor of 2.31, which was THE worst in MLB. Of course, never mind that the guys with the lowest RF at CF that year were on teams that had the fewest fly balls in their respective leagues. I mean, after all, those figures are deemed irrelevant by a great number here. Rhodes was bad in the field and Stats tried to cover up what was sticking out like a sore thumb by saying that he was better than most people thought (like they said about Mitchell). JD> Alomar's numbers are wrong than, say, Ken Griffey's. I really do NOT JD> think they're that wrong. I'm not arguing for Griffey but I will say that any stat that says Griffey is worse than Tuffy Rhodes needs to be looked at. I'm telling you, if you used TRUE ZONES, you'd get a much different picture than the fantasy that Stats creates. --- TrekEd 1.00 * Origin: Striking a blow to purists (1:170/1701) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: D5P00028 Date: 05/19/96 From: TRENT WOODRUFF Time: 03:17am \/To: JARED WALKER (Read 1 times) Subj: You call It 2 -=> Quoting Jared Walker to All <=- JW> 1) There is a runner on 3rd and the squeeze is on. The catcher JW> sees the runner break for the plate and just as the ball is pitched he JW> steps out of the catchers box and tags the runner (before he reaches JW> the plate)..... Is the runner out or is he safe?? If the catcher leaves the box BEFORE the pitch crosses the plate, then I would THINK the runner would be safe. The catcher's also taking a chance on interfering with the batter, not to MENTION getting hit by the swung bat. If he leaves the box after the ball crosses the plate, the runner is out. (If he can see the runner, he's either got dang good peripheral vision, or he's not watching the pitch too closely .) JW> 2) Runners on 1st and 3rd, 2 outs. The batter hits a fly ball to JW> the short-stop and he dropps it allowing the runner from 3rd to cross JW> the plate..... What's the call?? Depends...you didn't finish the play. As far as YOU WENT, the run scores, the guy on 1st would either be at second or third (depending on how the ball bounced), and the batter would probably be at first. However, you didn't mention what the fielder did with the ball after he fielded it, if he got to it in time to make a play anywhere. JW> 3) No runners on, no outs. Count on the batter is full (3-2). JW> The batter hits the ball down the left-field line. The ball takes 1 JW> bounce in fair territory and the left-fielder accidentaly knocks the JW> ball over the fence in foul territory, after the runner rounded 2nd JW> (fast runner huh)..... What's the call?? Since I don't believe this to be humanly possible, I'll say it's a ground-rule double. ... To explain the world, imagine God as a comedian. --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.20 [NR] * Origin: PipeLine! A State of Mind * Palm Bay Fl 407-728-7386 (1:374/147) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: D5P00029 Date: 05/19/96 From: JAMES DUNLOP Time: 12:08am \/To: TRENT WOODRUFF (Read 1 times) Subj: YOU BE THE UMPIRE In a message of to Paige Miller (1:2613/313@), you wrote: PM> Correct! However, unless the batter does a very stupid thing like not PM> run to first base (and you see this very rarely in the majors), I don't PM> see any double play here. TW> I would think that if the first baseman is able to field the ball quickly, TW> he could just step on first, then throw to second for the tag... Except that the runner should return to first before the throw gets back. Better to tag the runner (even if he's standing on the bag) and then the base. Double play. (Once the ball hits the ground, the runner is forced, and first base is no longer "safe" for him.) --- The-Box Edit 1.10- PC * Origin: Dunlop Radial Point. Durham, NC. (1:3641/1.206) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: D5P00030 Date: 05/11/96 From: PAIGE MILLER Time: 08:18am \/To: TRENT WOODRUFF (Read 1 times) Subj: You Call It -=> Trent Woodruff took a called strike three for saying to Mark Yoder <=- MY> BZZZZZT. If the ball hits the batter while he's in the batters box, MY> before it strikes anything else, it is a dead ball and he is awarded MY> first base. If it strikes anything else before it hits the batter MY> (except for the bat), it is a live ball, and would likely be called a MY> wild pitch or a passed ball. TW> I don't know. I'll take your word for it, because I really DON'T TW> know... but that just doesn't "sound right" to me. It just seems that TW> if the ball touches the offensive player, in foul territory, that it TW> would be a dead ball. I umpire quite a bit, and haven't ever seen TW> anything that really addresses this. Could you point me in the right TW> direction, so that if I DO (somehow) have to make this call, I can TW> back myself up? Well take Mark's word for it. Or look it up yourself. Nowhere does it say that the ball becomes dead when a pitch bounces off the catcher and hits the batter. Pro Rule 5.09(a) says: "5.09 The ball becomes dead and runners advance one base, or return to their bases, without liability to be put out, when-- (a) A pitched ball touches the batter, or his clothing, while in his legal batting position; runners, if forced, advance." Note that once the ball hits the catcher, we no longer have a pitched ball, and so there is nothing in the rules that would make this a dead ball. I'm quite concerned by your statement that "It just seems that if the ball touches the offensive player, in foul territory, that it would be a dead ball." I'll bet you've never seen this called. The consequences are disastrous -- imagine a fast runner on first with a weak-throwing catcher. The catcher knows he can't throw the runner out, so if the runner breaks for second, all the catcher would have to do is deflect the pitch into the batter, and we have a dead ball, return that runner to first! What possible reason could there be for calling dead ball when the ball accidentally contacts the batter? You are penalizing the offense if it has runners on base, and they have done nothing wrong. ... He ain't heavy; he's a Shareware Author. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 --- * KMail 3.10m Knight Moves --- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406 * Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: D5P00031 Date: 05/11/96 From: PAIGE MILLER Time: 08:47am \/To: DAVID LENTZ (Read 1 times) Subj: Al-O-Mar -=> David Lentz took a called strike three for saying to Mark Yoder <=- DL> Will have to wait to a trip to Borders to find a book on statistics DL> to explain the diffence between statistical, conventional, DL> correlation and my process, which I am tenatively calling rank DL> correlation. I wonder if Borders has statistics books. I would expect you'd have a better chance of finding them at a college bookstore or college library. And you are welcome to borrow some of my textbooks. There is also a statistical method called "rank correlation", which is simply ordinary correlation applied to ranks rather than to the actual data. But it doesn't really matter what you call your method. What matters is that the method provides an insight to some question, and that other methods already in existence don't quite do the job as well. I invite you to explain your method again, with emphasis on how it sheds some light on the question at hand. I would be glad to provide some expertise (and perhaps some data analysis) for comparison with other existing statistical methods. But establishing the logic behind your method is a pre-requisite to comparing it on actual data. I believe you have sufficiently convinced yourself this is a logical method; you need to convince others of that (and my apologies for not reading your earlier explanation more carefully). ... Written with invisible letters on a transparent void. ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 --- * KMail 3.10m Knight Moves --- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406 * Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: D5P00032 Date: 05/11/96 From: JOE BATES Time: 05:50am \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Belle What do you think of him? --- GAPNet Enhanced * Origin: Lost Time BBS-HCSNet-Strongsville,Oh*216-237-2116 (1:157/426.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: D5P00033 Date: 05/11/96 From: ED GRINNELL Time: 09:18pm \/To: DAVID LENTZ (Read 1 times) Subj: Al-O-Mar David was waived by Sparky Anderson and then ranted: DL> correlation and my process, which I am tenatively calling rank ^^^^ DL> correlation. It's more than rank, it's downright ugly.:-) My offer still stands or are you too proud to use a program that I've written that computes TRUE correlation. --- TrekEd 1.00 * Origin: Johnson and Norm, then pray for a storm (1:170/1701) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: D5P00034 Date: 05/12/96 From: RUSS PAIGE Time: 01:41am \/To: TRENT WOODRUFF (Read 1 times) Subj: Did someone cry "Foul?" -=> Quoting Trent Woodruff to Mark Yoder <=- JW> Here's one for all you statistitions out there. What would the JW> ruling be if a ball pitched by the pitcher, that hits the catcher (say, JW> the helmet), and bounces back and hits the batter??? TW> Are you sure? I would have thought that if it hits the batter while TW> he's still in the batter's box, it is a foul ball, since he is in foul TW> territory. Come on, Trent, put your thinking helmet on. The pitch never touched the bat, yet you're going to call it a foul ball? Harumph. What would Ron Luciano say? d8^) Russ ---- ... "Scotty, beam me up another Blue Wave message." --- Blue Wave/386 v2.21 [NR] * Origin: AD Multi-Node Message BBS (703) 241-1826 (1:109/611@FIDONET) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: D5P00035 Date: 05/12/96 From: RUSS PAIGE Time: 01:41am \/To: KEN HERNDON (Read 1 times) Subj: Wanted- Better Umpiring -=> Quoting Ken Herndon to Paul Lopez <=- PL> Home plate umpiring has reached an all-time low! PL> The A.L.'s combined E.R.A. is over 5 runs a game. At first I thought PL> the pitching was getting bad but now I've come to one more conclusion: PL> the umpiring behind the plate is the worst I've ever seen. KH> KH> To top it all, the umpires deem themselves as being infallaible! KH> Do you realize that ANY questionable call that is viewed on the KH> stadium screen will result in the umpires walking off the field? KH> This was a big disappointment for me when I went to the ballparks after they had installed the Monster TV Screens in the outfield. I had looked forward to being able to see close plays replayed in 4-story tall glorious slow motion. When I realized that no close call would ever be shown on one of those screens, I was majorly dismayed. I have always suspected that there is a clause in the Umpires' contract/Collective Bargaining Agreement which specifically bans the replay of close or questionable plays on the MonsterVision screens, but I've never been able to confirm that. I did find one avenue around the bogusness, though. The luxury suites have the televisions which generally carry the game, whether it is cable, pay-per-view, or broadcast tv. So, back when I wasn't boycotting, I would try and position myself so that I could zoom into a luxury suite with my high- powered binoculars to watch the replays. Russ ---- ... All I need is a Wave and a board to surf it on. --- Blue Wave/386 v2.21 [NR] * Origin: AD Multi-Node Message BBS (703) 241-1826 (1:109/611@FIDONET) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 234 BASEBALL Ref: D5P00036 Date: 05/11/96 From: DAVID LENTZ Time: 10:42am \/To: CALEB KIM (Read 1 times) Subj: Redsox Caleb, In a message of 5/08/1996 to JAIME COWIE , you wrote: CK> Is it the same ole' curse they've had the last 90 years? I don't know, CK> but as a Yankee fan, I'm relieved that we don't have to deal with them. CK> I have this strange feeling that they'll come back as the season moves CK> on. They're just in a terrible slump all together. Maybe they just don' CK> have many new players in important positions. CK> Anyway why can't they make the plays in defense? No wonder pitchers are CK> doing dreadfully. CK> Defense should be the foundation of winning. Good defensive teams often CK> come back strong in their offense. I believe I agree with you. Defense play should be more of a constant. A good defensive player should be able to consistenty make good defensive plays for the entire season. Whereas hitting is more prone to getting hot or going into a slump. Aside from injuries, it more likely that a good fielding team will get hot with their bats than a good hitting team will get hot with their gloves. Happy Modeming - David --- * MegaMail 2.10 #1132: * KMail 3.10m Knight Moves --- QScan/PCB v1.17b / 01-0406 * Origin: Knight Moves - Rochester,NY 716-865-2106 (1:2613/313)