--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: F5G00117Date: 04/19/98 From: DAVEED MANDELL Time: 06:55pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Why the NFB From: Daveed Mandell Subject: Re: Why the NFB So, Eteve, we've gone full cirlce, and Jamal is back in the fold. And what did this get the NFB? It's as undemocratic as ever! He's going to have to go along with "official policy". I see no victory here. --- # Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) * Origin: The Playhouse TC's Gaming BBS/www.phouse.com/698.3748 (1:282/4059) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: F5G00118Date: 04/19/98 From: DAVEED MANDELL Time: 07:00pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Why The NFB From: Daveed Mandell Subject: Re: Why The NFB I think your courage, Harvey, flies in the face of Jamal's now somewhat meek attitude as a rank and file federationist who must follow and adhere to "official policy". Keep it up, Harvey. Federationists need you. Maybe one day they'll wake up and make the movement a democracy to be proud of! --- # Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) * Origin: The Playhouse TC's Gaming BBS/www.phouse.com/698.3748 (1:282/4059) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: F5G00119Date: 04/19/98 From: DAVEED MANDELL Time: 08:56pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Why The NFB From: Daveed Mandell Subject: Re: Why The NFB I believe some sort of cab script system would work for us. Remember that according to the ADA, if very little public transit is available in a given area, then inadequate paratransit will also be available. If the bus service is cut, so, too, is the paratransit service. I frankly feel the paratransit budgets are too bloated, resulting in very substandard service, lumping all disabled folks together. Subsidized cabs for blind folks might be something the NFB would be willing to accept. I hope. --- # Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) * Origin: The Playhouse TC's Gaming BBS/www.phouse.com/698.3748 (1:282/4059) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: F5G00120Date: 04/19/98 From: SOJACOBSON@MMM.COM Time: 10:10pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Why the NFB From: sojacobson@mmm.com Subject: Re: Why the NFB The discussion around the statement that power cannot be given but must be taken represents to me much of why much of our discussions lately are pointless. Some see this as an "autocratic" challenge, "Just try and get it." Yet, from other things I have heard him say, it seems obvious to me that he is saying that a leadership position cannot be passed from one person to another successfully unless the receiver has already demonstrated the ability to lead. If hatred of Dr. Jernigan or dislike of the NFB is so strong as to distort the meaning of this statement, one can only wonder what hope there is to resolve much else. Thian, there are those in all walks of life who cannot form an argument without quoting their oponents out of context as you indicated could be the case. > Hello, > > I heard it myself as I sat with Dr. Jernigan. A man from one country in > Asia, who was and still is admiring nfb's achievement in its persistent in > the philosophy of blindness, asked him such question. > > Regards, > > Thian. > > PS: I hope the statement I quoted earlier was not taken out of context. > > > On Sat, 18 Apr 1998, Steve Zielinski wrote: > > > > > > > Thian, > > > > Interesting comments there. Were you able to hear this comment > > of Mr. Jernigan first hand or was the information passed on to you from a > > source who was there? When did this happen? I ask this so as to > > establish the historical context of the statement and to gain further > > knowledge. Thanks > > > > Steve > > > > > > On Fri, 17 Apr 1998, Mr. Monthian Buntan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps some of us may find this comment helpful and please feel free o > > > state any further comment. > > > > > > I remember listening to one of Dr. Tenbroek's speeches which stated hat > > > the organized blind movement must be strong by its determination and > > > purpose, and must be democratic by its process. > > > > > > Also at a dining table in Melborne, Australia, one person asked Dr. > > > Jernigan when he would step down (meaning when he would let the > > > organization run on its own by new generation without much of his > > > involvement)? And I remember very clearly that he said "power cannot e > > > given. It mmust be taken. If I give power to anyone, then he/she does not > > > really have power on his/her own." Dr. Kenneth Jernigan is indeed a living > > > blind philosopher of our time. But how many people, even many of us in the > > > federation, really understand what he has said? > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > Thian. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +----------------------------+ > > | Steve Zielinski (N8UJS) | > > | stevez@ripco.com | > > +----------------------------+ > > > > > > > -- Steve Jacobson National Federation of the Blind 3M Company E-mail: SOJACOBSON@MMM.COM The opinions expressed are not necessarily those of the 3M Company. --- # Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) * Origin: The Playhouse TC's Gaming BBS/www.phouse.com/698.3748 (1:282/4059) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: F5G00121Date: 04/20/98 From: MONTHIAN BUNTAN Time: 05:29am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Why The NFB From: Monthian Buntan Subject: Re: Why The NFB I disagree with Daveed regarding Jaml's decision. The federation might be imperfect as any organization in the world, but it has proved to be more effective and useful to blind people, not only in the US, but around the world with its philosophy. I think it's better to work within a more effective organization to get better result than trying to raise the standard of the other one which may or may not guarantee anything philosophically or even realistically. Regards, Thian. On Sun, 19 Apr 1998, Daveed Mandell wrote: > > > I do not think that the l > leadership respects the membership, Jamal. Respect is a two-way street! > I'm sorry you left the ACB to return to a clistered, well-garded, > closed-minded movement. > I don't foresee much change in the Federation very soon. > > > --- # Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) * Origin: The Playhouse TC's Gaming BBS/www.phouse.com/698.3748 (1:282/4059) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: F5G00122Date: 04/20/98 From: MONTHIAN BUNTAN Time: 05:42am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Why the NFB From: Monthian Buntan Subject: Re: Why the NFB I don't think the federation is now in the unfortunate situation. It has done far more than any other organizations of the blind. Dr. Tenbroek and Dr. Jernigan both have done their jobs in their consistant beliefs and philosophy of blindness. The fact that there might be some agreements and or disagreements on what the federation including its leaders have done is something I would emphasise less than the main purposes. Leaders are human beings. They have their own personal characters. I can have a dialog with anyone as long as they are genuine with their belief. Dr. Jernigan happens to be a person with a strong belief most of which I happen to agree with him. I admitedly said to him that I may disagree with him on the matter of how certain things can be done, but I do agree with him on the matter of what it means to be blind. And that is, what I believe, to be the most important matter for the federation. Regards, Thian. On Sun, 19 Apr 1998, Steve Zielinski wrote: > > > Thian, > > Thanks very much for the additional information. No, I do not in > any way take it out of context and also take the statement for what it > is, a statement of power. It is also brutal politics unfortunately. > Nevertheless, it says a whole lot about where Mr. Jernigan is coming from > and explains a lot about why the federation is what it is politically. > Quite unfortunate. > > I had an experience when working with Jamal Mazrui on his case > which is quite interesting. During the campaign I got a phone call from > Homer Page who was then involved with the leadership. For all I know he > still is, I just don't know. He asked me if I was intending to hold a > picket of the federation board on the next day. He indicated that rumor > had it that I was. I was quite astounded since there was absolutely no > plan for any kind of picket, though it probably was a good idea. This > showed me how one of the ttactics used by the leadership when under > pressure is to promote rumor and innuendo. I don't know who started the > picket rumor and I admit the leadership made a call to find out, but the > very idea of a picket was never considered. I know none of us who were > involved with the Mazrui case ever considered a picket, to the best of my > personal knowledge. Nevertheless, there was the rumor. So how did it > get started anyway? We'll never know. Others were in the room when the > call came in and we discussed the phone call afterwards. So I also > wanted to get first hand knowledge of a statement if possible as I quite > recall the phone call from Page and this whole experience makes me want > to varify what I hear when possible. I know you would understand. And > again, testing facts, verifying issues and statements is part of a more > open democratic process. > > Take care and have a nice day. > > On Sun, 19 Apr 1998, Monthian Buntan wrote: > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > I heard it myself as I sat with Dr. Jernigan. A man from one country in > > Asia, who was and still is admiring nfb's achievement in its persistent n > > the philosophy of blindness, asked him such question. > > > > Regards, > > > > Thian. > > > > PS: I hope the statement I quoted earlier was not taken out of context. > > > > > > On Sat, 18 Apr 1998, Steve Zielinski wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Thian, > > > > > > Interesting comments there. Were you able to hear this comment > > > of Mr. Jernigan first hand or was the information passed on to you from a > > > source who was there? When did this happen? I ask this so as to > > > establish the historical context of the statement and to gain further > > > knowledge. Thanks > > > > > > Steve > > > > > > > > > On Fri, 17 Apr 1998, Mr. Monthian Buntan wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Perhaps some of us may find this comment helpful and please feel free to > > > > state any further comment. > > > > > > > > I remember listening to one of Dr. Tenbroek's speeches which stated that > > > > the organized blind movement must be strong by its determination and > > > > purpose, and must be democratic by its process. > > > > > > > > Also at a dining table in Melborne, Australia, one person asked Dr. > > > > Jernigan when he would step down (meaning when he would let the > > > > organization run on its own by new generation without much of his > > > > involvement)? And I remember very clearly that he said "power cannot be > > > > given. It mmust be taken. If I give power to anyone, then he/she does not > > > > really have power on his/her own." Dr. Kenneth Jernigan is indeed a living > > > > blind philosopher of our time. But how many people, even many of us in the > > > > federation, really understand what he has said? > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > > > > > Thian. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > +----------------------------+ > > > | Steve Zielinski (N8UJS) | > > > | stevez@ripco.com | > > > +----------------------------+ > > > > > > > > > > > > > >