--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: F2K00014Date: 02/15/98 From: KELLY PIERCE Time: 09:19pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: 03:computer users network news #15 From: Kelly Pierce Subject: computer users network news #15 living. They have the talent to earn money through services such as training, installation, maintenance, and upgrades. They should know about products and services that they don't sell, such as training tapes, books, online mailing lists, community college courses and other resources that assist the end user in learning and conquering the technology. Adaptive technology specialists, evaluators, and dealers may be independent business owners or work for an agency or institution. Independents may be highly adaptable to individual needs and flexible in their services. They also may have little contact or exposure with the disability community beyond their job. Agencies are as good as the people that work there. Consider the strengths and experience of the person working at the agency, not just the strengths of the agency itself. Agencies can be biased too. For example, the largest Chicago blindness agency has a financial relationship with an Indiana-based producer of screen readers. Not surprisingly, this agency invariably recommends only the screen readers that it sells. What assessment procedures does the evaluator use to arrive at a recommendation? Will the user actually try the device? For how long? What outcomes or behaviors were observed during the device usage? If you have not used the device before, this is a must. The evaluation should go beyond a demonstration of how the adaptive technology works. It should include hands-on use of equipment and software in the actual situations and settings faced by the end user. If it doesn't work, it is convincing evidence not to purchase the device. If it works for the end user, it is a nearly irrefutable justification. Actual experience with a product during several weeks in the real world is far more convincing than the unnatural experience of a half-hour-long highly structured evaluation at a demonstration center. What standard does the evaluator use for his recommendation? Is it consistent with the legal standard in question? This is important. If an employer, state rehabilitation agency, or a school district is purchasing the adaptive technology, the evaluator should be familiar with the standards and procedures in the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Rehabilitation Act as amended in 1992, and the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA). These standards may vary considerably from the professional opinion of the AT specialist or the preferences or desires of the user. What is best for the user may not be "appropriate" under IDEA, or "effective communication" under the ADA. Likewise, rehabilitation funding allows for devices "necessary for employment" and Medicaid will cover only those things "medically necessary." These are not complicated definitions to understand, but the At specialist should be familiar with their meaning and requirements. For assistance in obtaining a specific standard, contact a parents' group, ADA technical assistance center, or a blind computer user network. Can the evaluator, trainer, or dealer use the device the way that the end user will? People who sell, service, and evaluate adaptive technology products such as screen readers should be able to use the adaptive technology. Rarely do sighted evaluators, trainers, or vendors have the screen turned off when working with a blind end user. It can be difficult to understand what works-- REALLY WORKS--for the end user if one does not use it oneself. Finally, above all, trust yourself. Things that can't be described can mean a lot. You may have difficulty in trusting the adaptive technology specialist. You may feel that he really doesn't understand your needs or situation. He may speak only in generalities and not specifics. He might be vague about the experiences of other customers. My experience tells me that if the end user is uncomfortable or unsure about the adaptive technology specialist, unsatisfactory outcomes often result. It is better to wait and continue asking questions until one is comfortable than to move forward. Our feelings tell us a lot about ourselves. We need to use them to make the right choices. (Kelly Pierce assists victims of crime navigate the criminal court system at the Cook County State's Attorney's Office. He is also the coordinator of the Computer Network's Lynx Squad.) ------- FYI The following radio and television shows may be of interest to our readers: Sundays--11:00 AM, "TV.com," ABC, channel 7 in Chicago; Sundays--3:30 PM, "Life on the Internet," Channel 20 in Chicago; Sundays through Saturdays--6:00 PM, "The Site," MSNBC; Sundays--4:00 PM, "Computer Chronicles," Channel 20 in Chicago; Tuesdays--9:00 PM, "Real Computing," WDCB, 90.5-FM, Glen Ellyn; Fridays--8:30 PM, "Computer Chronicles," Channel 20, Chicago; Saturdays--2:00 PM, "CNN Computer Connection," CNN (Cable News Network). If you know of other technology-related shows that are not included here, please contact Cindy Brown through the voice-mail: 312-458-9006. -------- TREASURES! Planning on upgrading to a Pentium and wishing for a home for your 486? Got a Braille 'N' Speak classic you aren't using any more? an old synthesizer? an out-of-date, beginner-ready copy of a computer tutorial? List what you've got in the Treasures column, the Computer Network's home for wonderful things that their current owners have used and loved and don't need any more! Anna Byrne is your contact person. You can reach her by leaving your name and phone number on the BSA voice-mail line, and be sure to indicate you want to speak to Anna Byrne. That number is: 312-458-9006. AVAILABLE TO BORROW:42 2-track cassette tapes, recorded at 1 7/8 IPS;containing articles about computers from The Chicago Sun Times;to be picked up at BSA office on a week day; available only until March 1, 1998. To reserve the tapes, phone: Carlos Hranicka, 312-226-4280. -------- DATES TO REMEMBER! All events listed below take place at Blind Service Association, unless otherwise indicated. You can also contact the BSA voice-mail line for more up-to-date information. (312-458- 9006) Thurs., Oct. 30, 1997, 6:00-7:30--openhouse for new members; ninth floor. Sat., Nov. 1, 1997, 10:00-12:30--Arkenstone Open Book 3 (optical character recognition scanner) and MegaDots (Braille translation program); ninth floor; (seminar presentations). Wed., Nov. 12, 1997, 5:30-7:30--Cognoscentae (governing board) meeting; ninth floor; (all are welcome). Thurs., Nov. 13, 1997, 6:00-8:00--Lynx Squad; ninth floor (Internet discussion). Thurs., Nov. 27, 1997--Thanksgiving (no Computers for Dummies or new members' openhouse this month). Wed., Dec. 3, 1997, noon--deadline for newsletter articles! c/o Cindy Brown, eleventh floor (see DO IT--WRITE NOW! page 9). Wed., Dec. 3, 1997, 5:30-6:30--All-Write team meeting (all who are interested in helping out with the newsletter). Sat., Dec. 6, 1997, 10:00-12:30--Holiday Openhouse for everyone! ninth floor; (food, fun, and perhaps even a door-prize or two). Wed., Dec. 10, 1997, 5:30-7:30--Cognoscentae (governing board) meeting; ninth floor; (all are welcome). Thurs., Dec. 11, 1997, 6:00-8:00--Lynx Squad; ninth floor (Internet discussion). Thurs., Dec. 25, 1997--Christmas Day (no meetings for new members or beginners this month). Note: Because of the holiday weekend, there will be no monthly seminar in January. --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: F2K00015Date: 02/15/98 From: KELLY PIERCE Time: 09:47pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: how to choose assistive technology From: Kelly Pierce Subject: how to choose assistive technology Since I started organizing around information access issues for people with disabilities several years ago, I have met hundreds of blind computer users, listened to their concerns and identified key problems. Many of the difficulties experienced by these people, I discovered could have been prevented or highly minimized through a process that considers needs, involves the consumer in making decisions and solving problems, and an understanding of the product, technology and people in the support system with the product. It brings me no joy to tell those who stop in at the Loop offices of the Chicago Blind Computer User Network, or who e-mail or call (sometimes from overseas) that they bought the wrong product, should have considered training costs with the product purchase or have thought through the issues of installation and configuration of the adapted technology to fit the end user. To fix such problems, it is often necessary for the consumer to return to the beginning and do the steps necessary to make an adapted technology decision that were skipped the first time around. To avoid these frustrating headaches, I have written three articles on how to choose adapted technology. The first article describes how to structure an assistive technology buying decision and familiarizes consumers with winning approaches. The second article provides a series of tough, challenging questions to ask and consider when purchasing assistive technology. It is the end user's roadmap in making an assistive technology decision. The final article describes how to choose an adaptive technology specialist, vendor or dealer. It provides as well many questions to consider and ask your prospective adapted technology partner who will help you turn your dreams into reality. It is being shared in this space because of the critical need for such basic information and the failure of government agencies, disability service organizations, and assistive technology vendors and dealers in helping people with disabilities in adequately understanding and assessing the technology needs of blind persons and those with disabilities and matching them with appropriate tools and services. It is hoped that the information in the articles can begin to cross the distance of this knowledge gap. Credit must be given to the folks at the Illinois Assistive Technology Project, which provided me with the initial material (on a floppy disk and in an ASCII text file) that formed the basis of the work below. Their leadership helped me see more clearly how AT issues and problems were general in nature and shared by many different kinds of people with disabilities. Like choosing assistive technology, this series of articles is not and cannot be a solo project. To learn more about adapted technology issues for people with disabilities, check out the web site of Project EASI: Equal Access to Software and Information at http://www.rit.edu/~easi or that of the Visually Impaired Pittsburgh Area Computer Enthusiasts at http://www.city-net.com/vipace Kelly The Right Stuff How to Choose Appropriate Adapted Technology by Kelly Pierce People with disabilities can use adapted technology (AT) to gain new skills, keep old ones and live more independently. An appropriate technology solution will hopefully dramatically decrease a person's need for help or eliminate it all together. However, choosing the right technology is often a difficult task. This and the following articles offer strategies and tips to use when considering a technology solution. Be actively involved in making the decision When the end user is central to making the decisions about technology, the more likely it will effectively promote independence. Funding sources want to ensure any device purchased is needed, appropriate and will be used. Ultimately, the responsibility for success falls on the end user. The wrong decision can mean your job or at least be costly. It's better to actively participate in the process and ask lots of basic questions than try to fix a mess later. Just think about your closets. Is there something there that you do not use? Why aren't you using it? The wrong size? Not your style? Uncomfortable to use? Ugly? It's too fancy and you're a jeans and sweatshirt kind of person? More than likely the reason will be "It's just not who I am!" Consider who bought it and if you did, consider why you did. Like most things we use, adapted technology must fit who we are: physically, emotionally, culturally and personally. The decision is more than just buying a product. Get others involved If you are considering getting some adapted technology, seek out feedback from others. Even when you are choosing a very simple, low-tech piece of equipment, talking it over with other users, or a person who knows you well, will offer another perspective. They may see pitfalls that weren't obvious to you. This can be especially true when considering technology for children. Parents and others can provide the reinforcement, maintenance, training and other aspects of supporting the technology that will be used. But if a child needs a computer and the only mouse the parents know is Mickey, everyone needs to be aware of that fact and deal with it. If parents or other people in the support network are not comfortable with the technology solution, then the end user with a disability is not likely to see any benefit. The team approach Traditionally, the user, a family member or significant other, teacher, immediate supervisor, technology consultant, and rehabilitation specialists are often members of the team. If the technology is being purchased by an agency, a school, or an employer, the end user will likely go through an assessment team or accommodations committee. Try adding nontraditional team members if you think it will improve the group's problem solving skills. Another end user, computer instructor, local computer guy, or someone good at crafts, or even a classmate will look at the issues differently and often have valuable insights. Be outspoken, and don't be afraid to be a courageous problem solver. It will make for a much more elegant solution. Remember the group is there to solve a problem and decide if technology is the best approach. It's not a computer buying club. That is why it is best to avoid a team where the end user and technology dealer are the two main parties of a team. It can become a feeding frenzy between the two. Remember the adapted technology dealer has a mortgage to pay and groceries to buy, and you, the end user, are a means to that economic end. Focus on function Often, disabilities distract people, making them unable to see any potential or ability. By focusing attention on functional skills, we move away from looking at someone in a clinical way and more toward a functional assessment. A good question to ask when you want to focus on function is, "What does this person want or need to do that he or she currently cannot do?" From there the team can begin to look for ways to alter the environment to enable the person to function more independently. Thinking in general terms Generalize about the use of the device. Where will you use it? Could it be helpful in other settings? Are there other people at the office or in the family who could use the device? By thinking in general terms about the device, you can get more use or increase the effectiveness of the device. Sometimes parents consider purchasing a computer for their child so she can do homework. When they consider the purchase, they need to look at the computer needs of the entire family. Could an older sister use it to write reports? If it came with a modem, can mom fax or E-mail work from home? A computer with a CD ROM drive or modem provides paperless access to a wealth of information. Generalizing about the who, when, where, why and how aspects of the product can help the user find a product that meets many, rather than just a specific need. However, remember that if several family members use a device, it will limit access to third party funds. Strive for simplicity The best technology solution is a no-technology solution. However, adapted technology users only need what will help in accomplishing the task, in the simplest, most efficient way. For example, a reacher is very simple technology. It allows a person to grab an object they could not otherwise reach. It's uncomplicated, and not very costly. A good solution? Not necessarily. It may be a better solution to move the out-of- reach items within reach so the user doesn't need any technology at all. Keeping solutions simple also reduces maintenance and repair costs. Simple solutions are often easier to use and therefore will be used. Generally they are cheaper solutions, so a funding source (whether it is the user or a third party source) is more likely to fund it. The next step Choosing the right adapted technology specialist, vendor, dealer, and training are as if not more important than selecting the best product. Using adapted technology requires a package of both product and service. In the next article, I will list and discuss a series of tough, challenging questions to ask yourself and any adapted technology specialist or dealer. Stay tuned. ********************** Questions to ask in Choosing adaptive technology by: Kelly Pierce Technology users need to be informed consumers. That's why in the last article I emphasized that they need to be smart shoppers, not satisfied with just having someone tell them what they need. I suggested that end users consider the strengths of their support system and use a team to help in making a technology decision. I suggested further that it is best to find the simplest solution and to approach the technology issue in a general way. Blind persons and those with disabilities should constantly ask questions about how the technology will work for them. No matter who pays the bill, adaptive technology (AT) users are obligated to ensure that the device is used. To ensure that, they need to make sure it fits them. But, how is that done? By simply asking yourself, the team (described in the previous article), other users and the equipment vendors questions and continue to ask until there is a satisfactory answer. Here are some questions a consumer should ask to make sure a device will help accomplish the desired goals. Personal Considerations. Does it help me do what I want/need to do? If it doesn't, don't get it! This may sound like a third grade question, but many people receive AT and from day one it does not work for them. When this happens, you can be sure the user was not an integral part of the assessment team. More than likely the team told the user what would work for him. As a consumer of technology and services, you should never allow that to happen. Speak up for yourself and your needs. Remember that the point of getting technology is to solve a problem or enhance a situation. Are there any limitations or risks? Users often see the benefit of AT, but don't bother looking at the other side. While the AT may help you do what you want to do, it may also limit other aspects of your life. For example, a user is considering purchasing an adapted laptop computer to write letters and reports, access the Internet, and translate material into formatted braille. He should also know that laptop computers are delicate, break down regularly, have a shorter life span, and cost much more than desktops. While it may improve productivity by permitting work to be done in transit or in many locations, the repair problems could cause added expense and lack of access. Does that mean a laptop is not a good product? Not at all, it just means that the user will need to measure the pluses and the minuses. Maybe he will want to have a good desktop computer before buying a laptop. Perhaps he might buy a Braille & Speak, which is lightweight, solid and reliable. However, using a Braille & Speak requires being quite familiar with Braille. This does not make it a bad product, just that nearly every piece of AT has benefits and limitations. Is it comfortable to use? Have you ever worn a shirt a half-size too small? If you have, when it was time to wear it again, you probably thought twice about it. If there was another clean shirt in your closet, the small one would just sit there. The same applies to any AT you use. If it is not comfortable, you will eventually discard it. Better to speak up during the assessment process than wait until it's over and the device is in the closet with you no closer to your goal than before you started. May I have a trial period to see if it works for me? Let the buyer beware. Don't get caught in the trap of thinking you have to purchase the device outright before you agree to use it. Insist on a trial period. Most reputable vendors will allow you to rent the device for a month or two and then apply the rental payments toward the purchase. Others have a 30-60 day return policy on the device if it does not work for you. Before deciding on any device and taking it home, spend some time with it hands on. This means using the product yourself, not just observing someone else use it, for an extended period, such as 90 minutes. Try doing the things you would likely do with the product, not just some highly refined test. For example, try writing and editing a business letter with a Screen reader. Also, try using several other similar products in this way as a comparison. It's common for users to successfully use a device in an insulated clinical setting, like a computer lab or demonstration center, when evaluating or learning about the device. But still they are unable to use it in a real world setting. Someone may be able to use a communication device in formal speech therapy sessions, but be unable to use it to order lunch at McDonald's. Likewise, speech and braille equipment for a blind computer user may work flawlessly in a demonstration. However, it can't be used on your job or with the other equipment that you purchased. Compatibility problems are common. It's not until you try it in the real world that you can be sure the device will work for you! Training considerations. Is it ready to use? Imagine this. A user receives his adaptive technology. The box is placed in the center of the room and the delivery person leaves. The user did not ask about set up procedures or support. He can't open the box. Even if the box were open, he would not know how to set the device up. By asking this question ahead of time, a user can eliminate these problems once the device arrives. This scene is played out most often when consumers buy AT primarily on the basis of price. While saving money is --- # Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) * Origin: The Playhouse TC's Gaming BBS/www.phouse.com/698.3748 (1:282/4059) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: F2K00016Date: 02/15/98 From: KELLY PIERCE Time: 09:47pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: 02:how to choose assistive technology From: Kelly Pierce Subject: how to choose assistive technology important, consumers who put much of their energy into aggressively seeking a competitive price may not realize that setup, installation, basic training, and initial customer support are as important in getting the product to work for them as the benefits of the product itself. As this article suggests, consider price as just one of many factors when considering some kind of AT. Consider the past track record of the manufacturer and dealer when getting your AT. The cheapest price may have its tradeoffs. Consider these when confronting a slight difference in price. The difference could mean a long-lasting partnership with an adaptive technology specialist or someone literally drops the device on your doorstep and runs. What skills do I need to learn? Let's suppose a user and his team decide a specific computer and software package is just the thing to help a student benefit from his educational program. However, he does not know how to touch type and has never used a computer alone before. He will need many skills before the device really helps. Until that day comes, the team needs to have alternate plans in place. The student needs to become proficient in using the technology. By asking this question, you ask the team to consider the technology's appropriateness and any learning curve the user may need to get comfortable with a device. How does it work? The device you are trying out may seem simple enough to use, but it may have taken the evaluator three days to program it so that you could use it. Ask about set up, what you will need to know about it, what other functions it has and how can you access those too. Where do I get training? Will the person who conducts the assessment also provide your training? Do you have a good rapport with him? Will the training come from the sales representative? Is there a 24-hour support line available should you need it? How long will that be available to you? Are training tapes included as part of the purchase price? If not, where could someone get them? What do other end users think about their quality? Is the manual available on cassette or in braille? If not, how will you learn how to use some of the basic functions of the product? Some screen reader companies produce information on how to use their product only in print and on computer diskette. Disk manuals can be very helpful, providing in-depth information. However, blind end users have difficulty getting started with the product when the device is required to read the disk or the printed material to use the product. Is training included in the purchase price? Wow, what a shock to learn you're responsible for training, when you assumed the price included it. Unfortunately, some don't ask ahead of time. Also, decide who needs training. Certainly the user will need it, but what about others? Teachers, supervisors, computer department people, family members, co-workers, and roommates are just a few examples of others who may need to know the device as well, or better than the user. Access Considerations. Where can I use the AT? Think about what uses you have for a specific device. If you will use it in multiple settings, how well will it travel? Is there room for it there? Is it noisy? Will it disturb others around you? Will it need to be reprogrammed to use it in different settings? Who will do that? Will that limit the use? An external speech synthesizer offers greater flexibility. You can stash it in a backpack and use a friend's computer as well as your own. However, their might be compatibility problems when it is used with certain kinds of hardware, such as scanners. You doesn't know things like this unless you ask. Is it bulky? A device that works well in a stationary setting, may be just fine, unless you need to lug it to the library twice a week. Imagine all the settings you will be using the device in and consider how portable it really needs to be. Can I use it indoors or out? How does moisture affect functioning? Climate changes can affect how a device works. If you will be operating the device at the bus stand and it starts to rain you may need to be concerned about this issue. Ask! What is the battery life? Battery life is a HUGE issue when considering AT. If you don't stop to ask this question PRIOR to the purchase, you may have a non-functioning device when you need it. If the device requires recharging after every three hours of use, and you will use it twice that amount of time, obviously get extra batteries. But if you don't ask, you won ' know. Batteries eventually wear out. Find out how soon you will need new ones. If powered, can you plug it in, or is there a power source where you want to use it? You can often conserve battery life by "plugging in." So, think about the places you can hook your AT to an electric outlet. For example, consider sitting next to the wall outlet when you take a laptop to class. You will have more battery life for times when no outlet is convenient. Repair and Maintenance. Is it reliable? The best place to get this information is to ask other users. They have experience with the device, its quirkiness, features and reliability. To find other users, contact the Blind Computer User Network or join an e-mail discussion list. There are more then 70 blindness-related mailing lists on the Internet. For a list of these with descriptions, go to http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/blist.html. to obtain this list by electronic mail, send an e-mail message to listserv@malestrom.stjohns.edu and leave the subject line blank. In the body of the message type: get blist info. This file is more than 200 kilobytes in size. For just an index or listing of all the mailing lists, send an e-mail message to the address above with the command "get blist short" Some blindness organizations offer product reviews. For example, the National Federation of the Blind (410-659-9314) offers many product reviews on a floppy disk for $5. Whatever you do, state clearly that you want to find someone who has used the device. Remember that the vendors and manufacturers sell products. Consequently, this makes them not necessarily candid resources about product reliability. In my next article, I will present some questions to ask and points to consider in choosing an adaptive technology specialist, vendor, or dealer. What is the life expectancy? Nothing lasts forever and at some point your AT will reach the end of its natural life. Knowing the life expectancy of a device will help you decide if it's time to repair or replace the device. Funding sources should also be aware that eventually replacing the device is far more cost effective or efficient than repairing it. What is average use? All technology has a lifespan. Not all devices can be used constantly. Find out what the manufacturer considers an average amount of use for the device. For example, you plan to purchase a device and anticipate using it eight hours a day. However, average use is an hour a day. The device is going to wear out much quicker than usual. Again, if you don't ask, you don't know. ASK! What does the guarantee/warranty cover? Some manufacturers provide a bumper-to-bumper warranty, others provide a sort of "cash and carry/as is" coverage for their device. Finding out what the guarantee/warranty covers after the purchase, is too late. Remember to ask and read the fine print. Stores and dealers are required to read every word of contracts, purchase agreements and warranties to consumers with print impairments, including the blind. It is your right under law (including the ADA and local accessibility ordinances) to receive this accommodation. You will not get it unless you ask! What is the service record of the manufacturer/vendor? Again, to be a good self advocate, you must check the sales/service record of the manufacturer and vendor of the device. You could find a device that works very well for you, but unfortunately, other users have had nothing but problems with the vendor's reliability with follow-up and regular maintenance. Unless you ask other people who have worked with them, you don't know. Is repair service convenient? Find out where the device will need to go for maintenance and repair. If you need to send it to outer Mongolia, it's going to take a long time to get there and get back. Perhaps another device can do the same job and repairs will be closer. Also, find out if the vendor has loaner equipment available while your device is in the shop. What is considered regular maintenance? You may be able to perform some of the maintenance yourself. Other maintenance may need specialized training. Interpoint braille embossers sound wonderful until the end user learns that unlike single-sided braille printers, these require regular cleaning by someone who can take the device apart and put it back together again. Apparently so much paper dust is generated that the braille appears distorted and hard to read. Find out what kind of maintenance your device needs and to prolong the life of the device, follow the directions carefully. Financial. Financial issues often scare people away from devices. They think, "I'd love to have that, but I could never afford it." Don't get caught in that mind set. Often going through the process of finding out exactly what you need will provide the documentation that a funding source needs to purchase the device for you. You may also find out that other funding sources are more appropriate than the one you originally thought. Further, it is up to the consumer to do the homework. Understand the reasons of why state rehabilitation agencies or the Program to Achieve Self Support allows people to obtain adaptive technology is just as important as the process for obtaining assistance. What is the total final cost? Some devices come all in one piece, others come with add-ons that will up the cost of the device. Be sure to get the total cost of the item with all the add-ons you need. Are there package deals? Will you need a specifically designed mounting system? Will you need two battery packs instead of one? Do you need a backup system? What about software needs? It's frustrating to finally get the device and then find out that you need another item to make it work for you. Are there training costs? Is training included in the purchase price? If you don't ask these questions prior to purchase, you may find training costs will make the device unattainable. Purchasing it and being unable to use it because you lack training is a discouraging experience. Who will fund maintenance and repairs? Imagine how you will feel if your device needs repair, and you find out that you are responsible for the cost of repairs and you didn't know it. Ask before the purchase! Are rental/lease plans more cost effective? If you are going to use the device on a short term basis, you may want to consider renting or leasing options. It's also a good idea to try out the device before you invest much money in it. Most reputable dealers have rental/lease options that either will let you apply the money toward the purchase price, or offer a 30-60 day return policy. You'll need to ask so you know the specific details of the trial period. If you are working with a vendor that does not allow that type of option, look elsewhere. They may not be there after the purchase if they are so stiffly uncompromising prior to it. Look for my next article to discuss issues in selecting a vendor or dealer. Will I need to change devices or upgrade soon? If you are gaining or losing skills because of the type of disability you have (such as a loss of vision), consider how much time you will be using the device. Measure these factors into the equation about whether the device will work, really work, for you. Will I get a trade-in/upgrade allowance? With the rapidly changing world of technology, things you purchase may be obsolete in a year. As long as the device still works for you, that's fine. However, you need to realize that it will have very little market value if you need another device or decide to upgrade. Parting Words Blind computer users and technology consumers with disabilities of all kinds must become advocates for their own needs. Relying on professionals to figure out what you need means you will not get the best device for you. Use professionals to help figure out the kinds of devices that will help you perform certain tasks; however, the consumer alone will ultimately decide if a device works. If you are not comfortable with a device for any reason, speak up, loud and clear! It will be better in the end if you express your opinions prior to the purchase. Complaining to a funding agent that a device doesn't meet your needs months after the fact, is upsetting and disheartening for the funder and often does not change the situation for the consumer. Finally, it's important to realize that often the best technology solution is a simple-tech solution. Consider how additional training, learning new skills, or environmental adaptations can meet your needs prior to purchasing any device. Training and environmental changes are long lasting and usually don't require ongoing repair and maintenance. However, these aren't the answer for all the barriers blind people face. After deciding that training or an environmental change won't work, AT may be the most practical option; however, always keep in mind that the AT solution should be appropriate for the task and meet your need as well as your own sense of who you are. Stay connected. the next article will give great ideas to consider in choosing an adaptive technology specialist. Watch for it! ************************* Your evaluator and dealer How good is the person evaluating or selling the product? One way to minimize the problems associated with training, repair, reliability, and hidden costs is to choose an evaluator, trainer and dealer who is experienced and knowledgeable about blind computing. These can be different people or the same person. If someone other than the user is buying the AT, such as a state vocational rehabilitation agency, school district, or employer, an evaluation will likely be necessary. This is to find out if the user can benefit from the AT and what specific skills, devices and training will be needed for the person to reach his goal in getting technology. Evaluations are often conducted when someone exercises legal rights found in the Rehabilitation Act, the Americans with Disabilities Act, and the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act, saying that adaptive technology will allow them do a job on par with the sighted or to fully --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: F2K00017Date: 02/15/98 From: KELLY PIERCE Time: 09:47pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: 03:how to choose assistive technology From: Kelly Pierce Subject: how to choose assistive technology participate in a public accommodation, such as a college career or academic program. Choosing the right product is just half the journey. Choosing the right person to turn dreams into reality is the other half. Who conducts evaluations? Generally, evaluators (or, people who conduct AT assessments) fall into four categories: rehabilitation engineers/technologists, vendors, therapists and consultants. People conducting evaluations vary widely in their skill level. Some are licensed, others are not. Rehabilitation engineers/technologists use the principles of engineering design and application of adaptive technology for people with disabilities. They may or may not have Master's degrees in rehabilitation engineering. A vendor sells equipment for a company or companies. Therapists are professionally trained and licensed in a specific medical discipline, such as speech, physical, occupational or rehabilitation therapy. In Illinois, these therapists must be licensed. A consultant can be a licensed therapist, a rehabilitation engineer, a really creative person or just about anyone. There are no licensure or educational requirements to hang out a shingle and declare oneself a consultant. Unless you ask about experience, training and credentials, you will not know. Just having a license or degree does not guarantee that a person is an adaptive technology expert. Nor does the fact someone is a vendor or consultant preclude them from being an adaptive technology expert. It is important to ask about a person's credentials and experience before an assessment. Nevertheless, do not stop there. Here are some questions you can ask to learn more about a potential adaptive technology specialist's skills and talent. How long has the person been recommending this type of AT? How many devices of this type has the specialist recommended? Experience builds credibility, skill, knowledge, and familiarization with user needs. Evaluators and specialists work out better when they have been in the field for at least a few years and have recommended, installed, trained, and serviced many devices and assisted many users in a general AT area, such as blindness. Be wary of those who have serviced a limited number of individuals in the past year, unless they come with extremely high recommendations from very credible end users. With what age range and/or disability type does the person primarily work? Some work with people in a particular age range or disability type, such as blindness. If you are a 35-year-old adult and the person has only worked with children up to this point, be wary. Likewise, if you have reduced vision and are quadriplegic and the person has only worked with blind individuals, additional expertise might be needed. What is the track record? Do the recommendations represent a variety of manufacturers and devices? Learn about a person's track record from other blind computer users. Ask others that you know their opinions of the evaluator. Connect with user networks such as the Chicago Blind Computer User Network. Ask for at least three references of blind computer users that you can contact. Be sure that they have received similar services to yours or are using similar devices to what you will be using. If the specialist doesn't have any or says it is "confidential," look elsewhere. People with disabilities should be able to expect that adaptive technology specialists accept the same degree of performance checking as someone hiring a handyman or house painter. High-quality evaluators and adaptive technology specialist are well known and proud of their work. They will be happy to have you learn about it. Before buying anything, check out the recommendations with other end users. One resource that can be quite helpful is the Internet. This is of particular importance if the person doesn't live in a really big town like Chicago with many sophisticated end users. There are more than 75 blindness-related electronic mailing lists, many on adaptive technology. End users, professionals, vendors and dealers answer questions and exchange information, ideas and solutions with each other daily. For a list of these with descriptions, go to http://www.hicom.net/~oedipus/blist.html. To obtain this list by electronic mail, send an e-mail message to listserv@malestrom.stjohns.edu and leave the subject line blank. In the body of the message type: get blist info. This file is more than 200 kilobytes in size. For just an index or listing of all the mailing lists, send an e-mail message to the address above with the command "get blist short" If the specialist may be called upon to participate in an ADA complaint, lawsuit, employer grievance, or IDEA appeal, you should anticipate that the other side would use past cases of the specialist to question the credibility of the expert. A long, proven track record of recommending devices that have been used successfully over time is the best defense. Are people satisfied with the particular products recommended? What kind of technology and products do others in a similar situation use? How independent are they with them? Finding similar end users and talking to them will take time. Patience and personal education will translate into long-term success and avoid costly and irritating headaches when things don't work together. Vendors sell the products they recommend. That is ok, many in the field do. Be careful with those who sell or are familiar with products from only one company. It is in their interest to sell their particular product whether it works for the consumer in question or not. Use dealers that represent a variety of companies and recommend a range of products. How is the specialist meeting individual needs if he is recommending the same device for everyone? Were all of the people really that much alike? For example, the most popular scanning software for the blind, Open Book Unbound, did not support until recently the Keynote Gold speech synthesizer from Humanware, Inc. This recommendation posed limited flexibility to blind end users who may desire to add scanning capability to their computer systems. We will never find things like this out unless we ask, learn about the relationships the dealer has, and check out user satisfaction with the specialist, company and product. If a school district or a state rehabilitation agency is paying for the evaluation, the evaluator should not be the one selling the equipment. Also, if the evaluation might be used later in contesting an IEP or in an ADA complaint, this can be cited as a conflict of interest and might damage the credibility of your case. How can you help me after the sale? Realize that for success and independence, the end user is initiating and developing a long- term relationship with the adaptive technology specialist. Technology changes rapidly. New products are released daily. Existing products are upgraded regularly. Technology opens more and more opportunities for people with disabilities. What worked for someone in the past may not meet their needs now. Treating adaptive technology specialists like order takers or disposable agency bureaucrats will deny the end user of the tremendous benefits of a long term partnership. Be mindful of the industry practice known as "stop and drop," and as the name implies, little followup happens after the initial sale. This can often happen when a consumer aggressively selects a local dealer solely on the basis of the lowest price for the product. However, for a product to work for most consumers, it needs to be setup, installed, and configured to meet the specific consumer's needs. Additionally, quality technical support and assistance is essential at the outset for a product to really work for the consumer in the long run. The lowest price is not always the best. The consumer is not simply buying a product but a relationship with a company and dealer. At some level, we get what we pay for. Good evaluators and adaptive technology specialists keep customers and don't need to solely rely on product sales to earn a living. They have the talent to earn money through services such as training, installation, maintenance, and upgrades. They should know about products and services that they don't sell such as training tapes, books, online mailing lists, community college courses and other resources that assist the end user in learning and conquering the technology. Adaptive technology specialists, evaluators, and dealers may be independent business owners or work for an agency or institution. Independents may be highly adaptable to individual needs and flexible in their services. They also may have little contact or exposure with the disability community beyond their job. Agencies are as good as the people that work there. Consider the strengths and experience of the person working at the agency, not just the strengths of the agency itself. Agencies can be biased too. For example, the largest Chicago blindness agency has a financial relationship with an Indiana-based producer of screen readers. Not surprisingly, this agency invariably recommends only the screen readers that it sells. What assessment procedures does the evaluator use to arrive at a recommendation? Will the user actually try the device? For how long? What outcomes or behaviors were observed during the device usage? If you have not used the device before, this is a must. The evaluation should go beyond a demonstration of how the adaptive technology works. It should include hands-on use of equipment and software in the actual situations and settings faced by the end user. If it doesn't work, it is convincing evidence not to purchase the device. If it works for the end user, it is a nearly irrefutable justification. A natural experience with a product during several weeks in the real world is far more convincing than the unnatural experience of a half-hour long highly structured evaluation at a demonstration center. What standard does the evaluator use for his recommendation? Is it consistent with the legal standard in question? This is important if an employer, state rehabilitation agency, or a school district is purchasing the adaptive technology, the evaluator should be familiar with the standards and procedures in the Americans with Disabilities Act, the Rehabilitation Act as amended in 1992, and the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act. These standards may vary considerably from the professional opinion of the AT specialist or the preferences or desires of the user. What is best for the user may not be "appropriate" under IDEA, or "effective communication" under the ADA. Likewise, rehabilitation funding allows for devices "necessary for employment" and Medicaid will cover only those things "medically necessary." These are not complicated definitions to understand, but the At specialist should be familiar with their meaning and requirements. For assistance in obtaining a specific standard, contact a parent's group, ADA technical assistance center, or a blind computer user network. Can the evaluator, trainer, or dealer use the device like the end user? People who sell, service, and evaluate adaptive technology products such as screen readers should be end users. Would you buy a car from someone who doesn't drive? Rarely do sighted evaluators, trainers, or vendors have the screen turned off when working with a blind end user. With the low expectations our society holds for people with disabilities, it can be difficult to understand what works, REALLY WORKS, for the end user if someone is not one himself. Above all, trust yourself. Things that can't be described can mean a lot. You may feel difficulty in trusting the adaptive technology specialist. You may feel that he really doesn't understand your needs or situation. He may speak only in generalities and not specifics. He might be vague about the experiences of other customers. My experience finds that if the end user is uncomfortable or unsure about the adaptive technology specialist, blurred outcomes often result. It is better to wait and continue asking questions until one is comfortable then to move forward. Our feelings tell us a lot about ourselves. Use them to make the right choices. --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: F2L00000Date: 02/16/98 From: K7MUF@AOL.COM Time: 05:07pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Training Programme for Adaptive Tech17:07:1602/16/98 From: K7MUF@aol.com Subject: Re: Training Programme for Adaptive Technology Good idea!! It is a good idea to let people learn about all the things available. If we know what's out there then we can make intelligent decisions as to what we want and need. Keep up the good work. --- # Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) * Origin: The Playhouse TC's Gaming BBS/www.phouse.com/698.3748 (1:282/4059) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: F2L00001Date: 02/16/98 From: DAVID ANDREWS Time: 05:37am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Attack on Randolph-Shepard Vending Progr05:37:4402/16/98 From: David Andrews <> Subject: Attack on Randolph-Shepard Vending Program MEMORANDUM DATE: February 16, 1998 FROM: James Gashel RE: Latest attack on Randolph-Sheppard blind vendor priority ACTION NEEDED! An effort to limit the blind vendor priority under the Randolph-Sheppard Act has surfaced once again in the form of a legislative proposal being made by the Department of Defense. The proposal would create an exemption for military mess halls by specifically excluding them from the definition of "vending facility." At present, there are several blind vendors who manage large military mess hall food service operations under the auspices of the Randolph-Sheppard Act. In fact, these businesses are probably the most challenging and financially rewarding opportunities in the program. Although it is technically possible that the Congress may consider this proposal under any circumstances, that is less likely to happen if the legislation fails to receive the formal blessing of the Clinton Administration. Therefore, it is critical for responsible officials in the Administration to know of our objection to the proposal as soon as possible. The letter which follows is the official statement of the National Federation of the Blind on this subject. The deadline for federal agencies to submit their comments to the Office of Management and Budget is February 18, 1998. This means that a decision to approve or disapprove the proposal will be made within a few days thereafter. Everyone who is interested in helping to resist this latest attempt to erode the priority for blind vendors granted by the Randolph-Sheppard Act should express opposition to the proposed legislation. Letters should be submitted to the Director of the Office of Management and Budget by fax to the following two numbers: (202) 395-3888 and (202) 395-5105. If the Administration refuses to approve the proposal of the Department of Defense, the issue will be favorably resolved at least for now. Therefore, a solid response in opposition to the proposal should be made as soon as possible. February 16, 1998 Mr. Franklin D. Raines, Director Office of Management and Budget Old Executive Office Building, Room 252 17th and Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. Washington, D.C. 20503 RE: Proposal by the Defense Department to amend the Randolph-Sheppard Act Dear Director Raines: Please consider the information provided in this letter in evaluating the Administration's position on the above-captioned legislative proposal. The National Federation of the Blind strongly opposes the proposal being made by the Department of Defense (DOD) to amend the definitions of "cafeteria" and "vending facility" contained in the Randolph-Sheppard Act (20 USC, 107 et. seq.). In this letter I will explain the basis for our opposition and request that the Administration not approve submission of the proposal to the Congress. The Randolph-Sheppard Act has been in existence since 1936 as our nation's only targeted effort to provide remunerative employment opportunities to blind people. At present there are approximately 3,500 blind people who operate small business enterprises on public property throughout the U.S. under the auspices of the Randolph-Sheppard Act. Under the law, the blind vendors are licensed as individual entrepreneurs. As such, they manage their own businesses, hire and supervise their own employees, keep their own books, make purchasing and sales decisions, and generally perform all of the duties relating to small business ownership. When the Randolph-Sheppard Act was last amended in 1974, the changes included greater emphasis on training and upward mobility programs for the vendors. In fact, the amended Act expressed a goal of providing opportunities for each blind vendor to achieve the "maximum vocational potential." Consistent with this objective, the "preference" for blind people to operate "vending stands" was altered to a "priority" to operate "vending facilities." The new term,"vending facility", was defined in the amended Act to include a fairly broad category of businesses, such as cafeterias, snack bars, and other businesses designed for the sale of products and services to federal employees and the public. In the years since the 1974 amendments, we have witnessed a major shift in the types of businesses being operated by blind people through this program. Before the amendments, the predominant image of the program was one of tokenism, where a blind person would be given a spot in a federal building lobby to sell newspapers, candy, tobacco products, and the like. Today this image is largely gone as blind people have moved from the lobby stand into the arena of full food service management. As indicated by their annual sales figures and the dramatic increase in net vendor earnings since the amendments, the change from vending stands to vending facilities has been financially rewarding for blind vendors. Also, the change has been broadly beneficial to all blind people, resulting from the positive demonstration of entrepreneurship. Military mess halls--the facilities at issue in the DOD proposal--are perhaps the largest and most challenging type of business being operated by blind vendors at this point. With all of this as background, the purpose of the DOD proposal is to exempt contracts for military mess halls from the Randolph-Sheppard Act. While the DOD explains this proposal as a clarification of the Randolph-Sheppard Act, it is really nothing more than a limitation on the Randolph-Sheppard Act. The sole effect of the amendment would be to exclude military mess halls from application of the blind vendor priority. It should be noted that the DOD proposal is strongly opposed by the Department of Education--the lead federal agency responsible for coordinating government-wide compliance with the Randolph-Sheppard Act. Regardless of this, another agency--the Committee for Purchase from People who are Blind or Severely Disabled--will apparently support the proposal. This is because the Committee hopes to secure employment for disabled people as food service workers if the priority for the blind is eliminated. In our view the Administration should not support legislation which would limit business opportunities available to the blind. This is not to suggest that employment for disabled people is not a worthy goal as well. However, there is nothing in the proposal from DOD that would assure that outcome. On its face, the legislation would only limit the Randolph-Sheppard Act and not result in a corresponding expansion of any priority for employing disabled people. Therefore, it is speculative to think that this would happen. As these comments suggest, the legislation requested by DOD is really the outgrowth of a dispute that the Department of Defense has with the Department of Education regarding the administration of the Randolph-Sheppard Act on DOD- controlled property. This dispute should be resolved within the executive branch and not by allowing one department to submit legislation against the interests of another. Therefore, the DOD proposal should not receive clearance by the Administration as long as it reflects one side of an inter- departmental dispute and the internal procedures for reconciling their positions have not been exhausted. Above all, the Administration should not approve legislation which would limit the opportunities otherwise provided for blind people to achieve their maximum vocational potential. Very truly yours, James Gashel Director of Governmental Affairs NATIONAL FEDERATION OF THE BLIND JG/mrb David Andrews, dandrews@visi.com Telnet to nfbnet.org Net-Tamer V 1.10.1 - Registered --- # Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) * Origin: The Playhouse TC's Gaming BBS/www.phouse.com/698.3748 (1:282/4059) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: F2L00002Date: 02/16/98 From: JENNIE HONEYCUTT Time: 06:46pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: braille or speech, literacy? From: Jennie Honeycutt Subject: Re: braille or speech, literacy? I really do agree with Cathy. Another point is that if we just learn speech, then we really never will learn how to spell. I have a friend in that situation. So I really do think braille is definitely needed in technology training. Jenjen and the love express! puppya@netdor.com --- # Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) * Origin: The Playhouse TC's Gaming BBS/www.phouse.com/698.3748 (1:282/4059) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: F2M00000Date: 02/17/98 From: DAVID ANDREWS Time: 10:32am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: February Braille Monitor Now Available From: David Andrews <> Subject: February Braille Monitor Now Available The Braille Monitor for February, 1998 is now available for downloading or file request from NFB NET. It can be had under the file names BRLM9802.ZIP or BRLM9802.TXT. the Monitor can be downloaded from NFB NET by calling (612) 696-1975, n,8,1 at 300 to 33.6K baud. You can also now reach NFB NET via the Internet by Telnetting to nfbnet.org. You can also file request it by using the magic file name monitor from Fidonet 1:282/1045. You can also get the Braille Monitor via NfB's new file distribution system called NFB-FDN. If you operate a Fidonet-compatible BBS, and wish to get connected to NFB-FDN, to receive NFB-related files automatically, then contact Fidonet 1:282/1045 for more information. You must have a Fidonet-compliant BBS setup and be able to process Tick files. We will deliver the Monitor and other NFB-related files to your BBS doorstep, automatically, each month. The Braille Monitor is also available on CompuServe. It is located in Library 5 of the Disabilities Forum, "go disfor." You can also now have the Monitor sent to you via internet e-mail. Send a message to listserv@braille.org and leave the subject blank. Put "subscribe brl-monitor " in the body of the message. Finally, the Braille Monitor is available via anonymous FTP from nfb.org or from our World Wide Web site on the Internet at http://www.nfb.org. This month's Monitor contains a wide variety of articles including one on Mr. Magoo, Disney, and the NFB; plus the results of some interesting research on Braille and employment by Ruby Ryles, and more. the contents for the issue is as follows: Retraction Requested by Barbara Pierce Of Mr. Magoo, Disney, and the National Federation of the Blind by Marc Maurer Watch for Details The Impact of Braille Reading Skills on Employment, Income, Education, and Reading Habits by Ruby Ryles Ph.D. One Family's Fight for an Appropriate Education by Jim Marks Changing Perceptions About Blindness by the Hundreds by E. Randy Cox Challenging Biblical Stereotypes of the Blind by Elizabeth J. Browne My Undiscovered Future by Kevin D. Ledford Letter to Missouri's Governor by Kevan C. Worley Despite Blindness, Couple Sees Joys of Life by Darci Smith Questions and NFB Answers by Betty Woodward To and From the Convention Hotel by Norma Crosby Science Museum's Hands-on Exhibits Let Visitors See Dinos, Reach for the Stars by Kelly Melhart Emerson Foulke Dies by Marc Maurer Recipes Monitor Miniatures Happy reading! David Andrews p.s. All of the recipes this month were contributed by yours truly... David Andrews, dandrews@visi.com Telnet to nfbnet.org Net-Tamer V 1.10.1 - Registered --- # Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) * Origin: The Playhouse TC's Gaming BBS/www.phouse.com/698.3748 (1:282/4059) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: F2M00001Date: 02/17/98 From: DAVID ANDREWS Time: 10:33am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Computer and Access Technology for Sale From: David Andrews <> Subject: Computer and Access Technology for Sale Computer System for Sale: I have for sale a complete computer system (two years old) including access technology. The system includes a Gateway 2000 p5-133XL computer. The full tower system includes a 133 MHz Pentium processor, 32 megabytes of memory, a 1.6 gigabyte hard disk, 3.5 and 5.25 inch floppy drives, a 3-disk quad speed CD-ROM changer, Creative Labs AWE32 Sound Blaster sound card and speakers, Matrox Millenium SVGA video board and 17-inch monitor, and a Jumbo 1.3 gigabyte tape backup drive. The system also includes Windows 95, DOS 6.22, Office 95, Encarta 95, backup software for the tape drive, and various other CD-ROM disks and other software programs. The system can also be sold with a SynPhonix 215 speech synthesizer, the latest versions of Artic's Business Vision and WinVision, and the SONIXTTS module. I am also willing to throw in a Hewlett-Packard 2p scanner with interface card. I am asking $2,500 or best offer for everything. I would prefer to sell everything together but might be willing to sell the access hardware/software and the scanner separately if no one is interested in the whole package. You can contact me by calling (612) 696-1679 or sending e-mail to david.andrews@nfbnet.org p.s. I also have a U.S. Robotics V.Everything 33.6KBPS external modem that is available for $100, and a DEc-talk Pc internal speech synthesizer for $400. David Andrews, dandrews@visi.com Telnet to nfbnet.org Net-Tamer V 1.10.1 - Registered --- # Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) * Origin: The Playhouse TC's Gaming BBS/www.phouse.com/698.3748 (1:282/4059) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: F2N00000Date: 02/18/98 From: K7MUF@AOL.COM Time: 03:54pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Braille writer or embosser From: K7MUF@aol.com Subject: Re: Braille writer or embosser I th;ink there was a small article in the November monitor about used Brailers. You might find it under "Monitor miniatures" Hope this helps --- # Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) * Origin: The Playhouse TC's Gaming BBS/www.phouse.com/698.3748 (1:282/4059)