--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EEJ00035Date: 10/15/97 From: LEE KERR Time: 12:02pm \/To: RICHARD WEBB (Read 0 times) Subj: For Lee Kerr, was a couple of other thin12:02:0210/15/97 Hi Richard, it all came out good. Unfortunately, after about two years or so, the tape and the machine wer ripped off so I no longer have it. That was quite some party up there. Wish we could go back there for another convention. By the way, did you get to go oon the river cruis? I heard the boat had some problems a couple of months ago. It was leaning to one side and then that was the last I heard of it. See you in Dallas I hope. Lee --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: NFB NET St. Paul, MN (612) 696-1975 (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EEJ00036Date: 10/15/97 From: PETE DONAHUE Time: 12:55pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Internet Odyssey 1997 From: Pete Donahue Subject: Re: Internet Odyssey 1997 Hello FELlow FEderationists andlisters, The whole point in our sending the message to all of the NFB's lists is to make as many FEderationists aware of what one local chapter is doing to enhance, and protect our computer and Internet ACCEss. If you remember from our greeting from last year, and the subsiquent article that appeared in the July BRAille monmitor we suggested that this is a project that any of our local chapters, state affiliates, and even NFB Divisions could carry out in their home areas. BLind people from all occupations use the Internet in some fashion, and it is important enough a concern to warrent spreading the word far and wide. SO Now rather than flaim one local chapter that carries out a project that in as far as we know has yet to be replicated elsewhare let's look for similar events around the country and get involved with them as well. AND that also goes for you folks on blindlaw. THERE is no reason why we couldn't have several of our chapters and/or state affiliates participating in shows such as the Internet Odyssey in the future. Peter Donahue --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EEJ00037Date: 10/15/97 From: AL AND MASHA STEN-CLANTON Time: 04:20pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Jamal was voted in From: Al and Masha Sten-Clanton Subject: Re: Jamal was voted in Hi, Barbara! As one who claims Jamal among his closest friends, I thank you very much for your words of support for him, as does Masha. It did indeed take courage for him to rejoin, particularly since the decision of the board placed special conditions that I had hoped would not be present. Indeed, let us bury all of the past that we can and create new love and good will. Let us also, however, ensure that any similar problem in the future will be handled differently: an appeal from a disciplinary decision of the board should be a matter of right. Thanks for listening, and again, for your welcoming words for Jamal. Al Hi, Barbara! I would add only that the way in which Jamal sought re-admission, including the special conditions which he was willing to accept, speak eloquently of his commitment to the Federation and the philosophy for which it stands. During our meeting over Memorial Day weekend, I was extremely moved by the dignity with which both Jamal and President Maurer handled what could have been a very tense situation. Thanks for your message of support. --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EEK00000Date: 10/15/97 From: DAVID ANDREWS Time: 07:38pm \/To: HARVEY HEAGY (Read 0 times) Subj: libertarians, was acb postings -=> Quoting Harvey Heagy to Richard Webb <=- HH> that's exactly what is wrong with traditional rehab as it was HH> created. the agencies don't even attempt to find a job for you until HH> they have made enough money off you or any other client or seen to it HH> that their psychologists and other persons with contracts with the HH> agencies do. then when and if they ever do find employment for us HH> they make certain it is not the kind that will foster independence. HH> After all, if blind people had the same choices as their sighted HH> counterparts and could tell these lighthouses and other places that HH> pay subminimum wages where they could take their pitance of a job the HH> agencies themselves would soon be out of business. they have a vested HH> interest in keeping us dependent. HH> that's why the Randolph-shepherd program was never fully developed HH> into the full fledged business opportunity it was originally intended HH> to be; because the agencies didn't want it. I do not think it is the agency's role to get me a job. It is my responsibility to get myself a job. They may help, council me, do job development,help me with accommodations, etc., but ultimately I will advocate for myself far better then anyone else. If I was waiting for Rehab to get me a job, I would likely still be waiting and/or be underemployed. We must take responsibility for ourselves!! David Andrews ... Reality-ometer: [\........] Hmmph! Thought so... --- Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] * Origin: NFB NET St. Paul, MN (612) 696-1975 (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EEK00001Date: 10/15/97 From: BILL REIF Time: 01:17pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Jamal & NFB membership From: Bill Reif Subject: Re: Jamal & NFB membership On 1997-10-14 Harvey said: >Hi Bill. I likewise disagree whole- heartedly with the umbrella >approach to disabilities because all data indicates that it is a >proven failure everywhere it has been tried. It is simply one >more attempt by bureaucrats and co-elisionists whose only agenda is >to preserve their jobs at our expense and use scare tactics in >order to get everyone into their fold by using that hackneyed old >argument that we all have to get together because times are hard >and services are being cut so we all have to present a united front >if we are going to keep any form of viable rehabilitation alive. Thanks for the support. I'm tired of going to CIL (Center for Independent Living) meetings or reading their publications in which the NFB, and to a lesser extent, the deaf community, are attacked for wanting specialized services when all we really need, according to them, as humans are food, clothing and shelter --- which can be provided to everyone in the same manner regardless of disability. One interesting result of this is that blind people in public housing are put into "accessible housing" which makes such units unavailable for the mobility-impaired people for whom they were designed. >However, Jamal does have his constitutional right to his opinion >and as long as he goes through channels and presents his opinion >responsibly then there should be no problem. I couldn't agree more. We can't get into the business of policing someone else's beliefs --- unless those beliefs translate into activities which direct NFB resources to the promotion of a philosophy or the accomplishment of ends with which we disagree. Jamal's insistence that computers would solve the problems of the blind and his commitment of Federation resources toward that end played into his first expulsion. Jamal would not be the first Federationist to entangle a chapter or affiliate in a coalition-directed initiative or an advisery council which wants our resources, abilities and numbers more than it does our philosophy. Once entangled in such a group, it's hard to resist their attempts to make you feel immoral for failing to drop your issues and work toward the "greater good" their issues supposedly represent. I was called upon several years ago to sit on an advisory board for the Springfield Mass Transit District, which was trying to increase the accessibility of the mainline system while maintaining some level of paratransit service. Every suggestion I had which would make the system (as opposed to the buses) accessible to the blind such as adding phone people willing and able to give helpful rout and schedule info or requesting that drivers call the stops were greeted with indifference to hostility because I was changing people's jobs, interfering with union contracts, or making demands that could threaten the good will toward wheelchair accessibility for which we should be grateful. That's when I decided such suggestions were more appropriately implemented from outside the system. In summary: while Jamal has the right to believe anything he wants, I would be more comfortable with his assurance that he understands our philosophy regarding the coalition and will drive the same direction we are if called upon. Having talked with him at length during the 1991 convention, I echo the comments of others who say he will be an asset to the NFB. --Bill Reif Springfield, Illinois --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EEK00002Date: 10/16/97 From: HHEAGY@DELPHI.COM Time: 05:40am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: ACB Washington Connection (fwd) From: hheagy@delphi.com Subject: Re: ACB Washington Connection (fwd) I Was simply pointing out other things that the convention did not vote on but were done anyway which were far more important and far more costly than Mr. Magoo. You have a perfect right to voice your opinion which I would think would be more valuable than trying to turn the tables on me and trying to make me look bad. I also have every right to agree or disagree with it. II find that this is a favorite tactic of the national leadership that when they can't find anything to disagree with about what someone says they use word manipulation and word play to attempt to make someone look at fault. Harvey Net-Tamer V 1.09 - Registered --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EEK00003Date: 10/16/97 From: HHEAGY@DELPHI.COM Time: 05:40am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Jamal was voted in From: hheagy@delphi.com Subject: Re: Jamal was voted in On 1997-10-15 NFB-Talk@NFBnet.org said: NF>Hey, were you at the same convention the rest of us were? If a NF>majority of the states had wanted to talk about what the National NF>Board had done in this case there was time allotted for it. The NF>majority of members decided that they wanted to let the board NF>decide the issue and believed that was the best for all concerned NF>at the time. I was definitely at the same convention you were at or at least I think so. It was held at the Hyatt-regency here in New Orleans right? And if I remember correctly, it was a traditionally formatted convention which means the meeting of the board of directors was held on Monday of convention week and the opening general session was on Tuesday, the day after the board meeting. The voting delegates are not established until the roll call of states which takes place at the opening general session. So how could the voting delegates decide to let the board handle it since they were not officially appointed till the day after the board meeting? Also, one of the responses requested during the roll call of states was a "yes," or "No," on the Jamal Mazrui matter which means the convention voted on it, not the board and without the benefit of hearing his side of the issue. Following the roll call, Mr. Jernigan commented on the matter proceeding his comment with words to the effect of, "I'm going to say this about the matter then we will not discuss it any further," which means that no one was allowed to seek the floor to even speak on behalf of his right to be heard. So where was this allotment of time you speak of? This is not only contrary to our constitution but to Dr. Jernigan's own words which say that if we have differences with the national leadership we should come to the convention and work them out. Those are his words, not mine. Finally, as far as making Jamal feel welcome, I am all for it. I received a private e-mail from him thanking me for my support on the N.F.B. echoes which I could post if you don't believe me, but since he sent it to me privately, I don't think I should post it publicly without his permission. Harvey Net-Tamer V 1.09 - Registered --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EEK00004Date: 10/16/97 From: HHEAGY@DELPHI.COM Time: 06:14am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: libertarians, was acb postings From: hheagy@delphi.com Subject: Re: libertarians, was acb postings Rehab has never gotten me one of my jobs. But what I was saying was that they purport to the general public that they do and that they encourage independence when in fact they do not. It tries to string you along as long as it can telling you that you need more counciling and that you aren't job ready and all that mess. I agree that we have eliminated much of that power that rehab once held over us, but we still have a long way to go. Harvey Net-Tamer V 1.09 - Registered --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EEK00005Date: 10/16/97 From: HHEAGY@DELPHI.COM Time: 05:40am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Conflict of Interest From: hheagy@delphi.com Subject: Re: Conflict of Interest As I have said to you before, no matter what kind of label you want to put on me, it won't change facts. If Louisiana has a poor B.E.P. program, it has a poor B.E.P. program. If blind clients in Louisiana aren't getting the services they need, they aren't getting services. If the affiliate leadership chooses to do nothing about it and wants instead to put all its eggs in the La. Center's basket and the national leadership chooses to defend such policies that is its right, but it won't change facts. And I think I should point out that I have nothing against the La. Center or its program. I have recommended it to many people. But no center no matter how important should ever take the lead in a state affiliate nor should it take most of an affiliate's resources to operate. There are many other things which need doing and if it is necessary to run a center to the virtual exclusion of everything else than maybe we shouldn't have it. As far as my negativism, I was almost removed from another server list because of my staunch defense of N.F.B. position on audible traffic signals, tactile warning strips, and on Mr. Jernigan's alleged demand that he be addressed as "Doctor Jernigan," even though his doctorates are honorary which to my knowledge he has never made any such demand and other things. The truth is that I agree with most of the N.F.B.'s purposes and goals but I will not hesitate to speak out when I believe something to be wrong. If our internal politics were as productive and positive as our external accomplishments we would be a lot better off. I detailed in an earlier post the projects I worked on this year one of which was to write the article on the Spring Vendor's conference which I posted on this conference a few months ago. I submitted it to the Merchant Messenger editor less than a week after the conference so that it could be put into the summer issue. Unfortunately, Shirley Morris became seriously ill several weeks before the convention and as far as I know a summer issue was not published because of this. I am very sorry that this happened, but this was something no one had control over. I also e-mailed it to Barbara Pierce for possible inclusion in a future Monitor. But the fact is that I did the work without being prompted. Harvey Net-Tamer V 1.09 - Registered --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EEK00006Date: 10/14/97 From: MIKE FREEMAN Time: 01:15pm \/To: DAVID ANDREWS (Read 0 times) Subj: VOTING On 07 Oct 97 22:46, David Andrews wrote: DA> Many state and local organizations DA> have figured out a way for people to vote DA> anonymously. It usually involves DA> reaching into some sort of covered box amd DA> moving a specifically shaped object to DA> another location. That is, the round I've also seen pieces of paper torn in various ways used. One can usually hide how one is gearing a piece of paper. most often, there were two candidates and one was designated by drawing straws as being represented by whole squares of paper and the other was then designated by that same square with a corner torn out. candi Mike Freeman Internet: mikef@pacifier.com --- PCRR QWK 1.60 --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Pacifier Online Data Service (1:105/101)