--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EEB00000Date: 10/06/97 From: JIM GASHEL Time: 02:50pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: congratulations to all!! From: Jim Gashel Subject: congratulations to all!! LEGISLATIVE INFORMATION NOTICE FROM: James Gashel DATE: October 6, 1997 RE: congratulations to all! This is to advise you that the immediate concern over section 8 of the Veterans Health Programs bill -- H. R. 2206 -- is over. Congressman Stump of Arizona who chairs the Veterans Affairs Committee has announced that he is having Section 8 removed from the bill entirely. He made this decision upon realizing that a restriction on the blind vendor program would endanger passage of the bill on the floor. This means that we were completely successful in having our voices heard. Please follow up by expressing your appreciation to each member of the House and each staff member who helped to achieve this result. As for news on a related matter, the United States Supreme Court has declined to hear an appeal of a decision by the Court of Appeals for the fourth circuit, which held that an arbitration decision issued under the Randolph-Sheppard Act cannot require the VA to abide by any particular remedy. This does not mean that the Randolph-Sheppard Act does not apply to the VA, but the arbitration power under the Act is limited. While this decision is cause for concern, it should not overshaddow the outstanding success we have had in removing section 8 from H. R. 2206. So, congratulations and spread the word. --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EEB00001Date: 10/06/97 From: AL GILMAN Time: 03:43pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: webwatch-l www.guidedogs.com not ac15:43:1210/06/97 From: Al Gilman Subject: Re: webwatch-l www.guidedogs.com not accessible via Windows to follow up on what Pete Donahue said: > > ... I would very strongly urge all Guide Dogs GRaduates to contact > GDB, and let them know on no uncertain terms that this kind ofdesign is > unacceptible; expecially when it comes from an agency for the blind. One > wonders if the company hosting this web site was given a lesson in making > ttheir web pages accessible for the blind. Why did Guide Dogs not demand > that this be done? This situation needs to be remedied if we are to be > able to access the material on this site in Windows. Again, I want to > urge GDB Graduates to contact both Guide Dogs for the Blind, and members > of the GDB Gracuate Counsel to see to it that the GDB Site is redesigned > to permit Windows access by the blind. > Please put down that flamethrower until we get to the bottom of your troubles. A pass through Bobby and a quick glance with Lynx both rate this design rather accessible. It may not be the site that is at fault, here. I myself am not volunteering to do any Windows debugging at the moment, but there are others on webwatch-l who can help you if you can't isolate the source of the problem. From the evidence I have been able to turn up, it doesn't look like the way the site uses HTML is the problem. -- Al Gilman Bobby. URL: http://www.guidedogs.com/, Mon Oct 6 16:48:35 EDT 1997 Browser Compatibility: Explorer 3.0,Navigator 3.0,HTML 3.2,Lynx 2.7 _________________________________________________________________ Click on error messages to find out more information Accessibility Congratulations! This web page earns a Bobby rating of four stars. This is the highest possible rating. You are entitled to use the [1]Bobby Approved icon. The following section contains a list of accessibility problems for this page. To the left of each problem description is a red line which indicates the severity of the problem. The longer the red line, the more important it is to fix the problem. On text-only browsers, the red line will appear as several letter X's in a row. ** [2]HTML tables are often incorrectly read by screen readers. Line 20: * [3]Background images can sometimes make pages unreadable. Line 15: * [4]No text-only link found. You might need to add a text-only version of this web page. Browser Compatibility No browser compatibility problems Download Time The following three column table gives statistics about the images on this page. The first column contains the URL of each image, the second column the image size in kilobytes, and the third column the image's approximate download time when using a 14.4kb modem. An arbitrary delay of 0.6 seconds has been added to each download time to allow for slow-downs caused by HTTP connection and request times. URL Size (Kb) Time (seconds) http://www.guidedogs.com/ 3.8 2.12 images/guidedogshead.jpg 35.5 19.73 images/differencelink.gif 2.6 1.45 http://www.guidedogs.com/cgi-bin/jpegselect/images/background 1.0 0.56 images/sidepic2.jpg 52.2 29.01 images/servicelink.gif 2.7 1.49 images/careerlink.gif 2.4 1.32 images/applyinfolink.gif 2.9 1.60 images/dogline.gif 2.3 1.30 images/nodot.gif 1.0 0.58 images/calendarlink.gif 2.3 1.26 images/aboutlink.gif 2.9 1.59 images/traininglink.gif 2.4 1.31 images/newslink.gif 2.2 1.23 images/welcome.gif 2.9 1.60 images/puppylink.gif 2.1 1.18 images/breedinglink.gif 3.0 1.64 images/resourcelink.gif 2.2 1.25 images/guestlink.gif 2.3 1.30 Total 128.7 71.51 Bobby finished. References 1. http://www.cast.org/bobby1.3/bobbyapproved.html 2. http://www.cast.org/bobby1.3/doc/tables.html 3. http://www.cast.org/bobby1.3/doc/background.html 4. http://www.cast.org/bobby1.3/doc/textonly.html --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EEB00002Date: 10/06/97 From: AL AND MASHA STEN-CLANTON Time: 08:18pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: congratulations to all!! From: Al and Masha Sten-Clanton Subject: Re: congratulations to all!! On Mon, 6 Oct 1997, Jim Gashel wrote: > > As for news on a related matter, the United States Supreme Court > has declined to hear an appeal of a decision by the Court of > Appeals for the fourth circuit, which held that an arbitration > decision issued under the Randolph-Sheppard Act cannot require the > VA to abide by any particular remedy. This does not mean that the > Randolph-Sheppard Act does not apply to the VA, but the arbitration > power under the Act is limited. Jim, maybe this question is better suited to a private exchange, but I don't understand what that court decision meant. Also, I presume from what you said that there currently is no conflicting decision by another circuit court of appeals, which would make it much more likely for the Supreme Court to decide the matter. Thanks! Al P.S. If I seem like a legal dummy, I guess I am. It's been a long time since I traded in my law books for computer manuals. --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EEB00003Date: 10/06/97 From: PETE DONAHUE Time: 12:17pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: www.guidedogs.com not accessible via Wi12:17:1310/06/97 From: Pete Donahue Subject: www.guidedogs.com not accessible via Windows Hello listers, Last night I went to the Guide Dogs for the Blind Web Site at http://www.guidedogs.com, and much to my surprise found that I could not access the hyper links with either Netscape Navigator or Internet Explorer. I would very strongly urge all Guide Dogs GRaduates to contact GDB, and let them know on no uncertain terms that this kind ofdesign is unacceptible; expecially when it comes from an agency for the blind. One wonders if the company hosting this web site was given a lesson in making ttheir web pages accessible for the blind. Why did Guide Dogs not demand that this be done? This situation needs to be remedied if we areto be able to access the material on this site in Windows. Again, I want to urge GDB Graduates to contact both Guide Dogs for the Blind, and members of the GDB Gracuate Counsel to see to it that the GDB Site is redesigned to permit Windows access by the blind. Peter Donahue --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EEB00004Date: 10/06/97 From: TOM LANGE Time: 09:35pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: webwatch-l www.guidedogs.com not ac21:35:0910/06/97 From: Tom Lange Subject: Re: webwatch-l www.guidedogs.com not accessible via Windows Hi Pete, Hmmm, I bet you have graphics turned on in both Netscape and Internet Explorer. I usually check a site with graphics on and with graphics off before I dismiss a site as being inaccessible. I suggest that you do likewise. Last week I paid a visit to www.guidedogs.com in both modes just to see how it behaved. Without graphics loaded, I had no trouble whatsoever using Window-Eyes or JFW version 3. Actually, the site is, in my view, well thought out and well-behaved. Ditch the graphics and you'll be all right. Might I also suggest, kind sir, that you refrain from bashing the site builder or organization to whom the site belongs until you do a thorough analysis of the situation. Going off half-cocked like that isn't cool and ticks people off, not to mention that it casts doubt on your credibility. Let me hasten to add that this isn't a flame, just a reproach. I will look at the site again and gladly eat my words if the site has changed sufficiently within the past week to render it unusable. Tom On Mon, 6 Oct 1997, Pete Donahue wrote: > > Hello listers, > > Last night I went to the Guide Dogs for the Blind Web Site at > http://www.guidedogs.com, and much to my surprise found that I could not > access the hyper links with either Netscape Navigator or Internet > Explorer. I would very strongly urge all Guide Dogs GRaduates to contact > GDB, and let them know on no uncertain terms that this kind ofdesign is > unacceptible; expecially when it comes from an agency for the blind. One > wonders if the company hosting this web site was given a lesson in making > ttheir web pages accessible for the blind. Why did Guide Dogs not demand > that this be done? This situation needs to be remedied if we areto be > able to access the material on this site in Windows. Again, I want to > urge GDB Graduates to contact both Guide Dogs for the Blind, and members > of the GDB Gracuate Counsel to see to it that the GDB Site is redesigned > to permit Windows access by the blind. > > Peter Donahue > > > > --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EEB00005Date: 10/06/97 From: JIM GASHEL Time: 03:07pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: congratulations to all!! (Forward From d15:07:1110/06/97 From: Jim Gashel Subject: congratulations to all!! (Forward From dandrews@visi.com) LEGISLATIVE INFORMATION NOTICE FROM: James Gashel DATE: October 6, 1997 RE: congratulations to all! This is to advise you that the immediate concern over section 8 of the Veterans Health Programs bill -- H. R. 2206 -- is over. Congressman Stump of Arizona who chairs the Veterans Affairs Committee has announced that he is having Section 8 removed from the bill entirely. He made this decision upon realizing that a restriction on the blind vendor program would endanger passage of the bill on the floor. This means that we were completely successful in having our voices heard. Please follow up by expressing your appreciation to each member of the House and each staff member who helped to achieve this result. As for news on a related matter, the United States Supreme Court has declined to hear an appeal of a decision by the Court of Appeals for the fourth circuit, which held that an arbitration decision issued under the Randolph-Sheppard Act cannot require the VA to abide by any particular remedy. This does not mean that the Randolph-Sheppard Act does not apply to the VA, but the arbitration power under the Act is limited. While this decision is cause for concern, it should not overshaddow the outstanding success we have had in removing section 8 from H. R. 2206. So, congratulations and spread the word. --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EEC00000Date: 10/07/97 From: JONATHAN MOSEN Time: 11:13am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: what we intend to do about Internet Expl11:13:4410/07/97 From: Jonathan Mosen Subject: what we intend to do about Internet Explorer 4.0 The following is the draft text of a letter being sent to appropriate authorities and media, including New Zealand's Commerce Commission and Human Rights Commission. Basically, the blind consumer movement in New Zealand won't tolerate this behaviour any more. Re - accessibility of Microsoft Internet Explorer 4.0 I write on behalf of the New Zealand Association of the Blind and Partially Blind, the blind speaking for themselves in New Zealand. Blind people use computers with the aid of a voice synthesiser, Braille display or large image system. In most cases, software known as a screen reader is also used, so the synthesiser or Braille display can receive instructions as to the information the user requires. With the advent of the Microsoft Windows operating systems, access to software which is essential for blind people to obtain or retain employment has been difficult and challenging, although access to Windows 95 has improved substantially over the last year as screen readers become more sophisticated. Microsoft, however, has now developed its Active Accessibility add-on to Windows 95, which will come bundled with Windows 98. In brief, Active Accessibility is a way of passing information to a screen reader which allows the screen reader to provide information in a helpful, intelligible way to a blind person. Adaptive technology vendors have made considerable efforts to incorporate hooks for Microsoft's Active Accessibility into their screen readers. It is important to emphasise that the mere inclusion of Active Accessibility in a screen reader is not sufficient. The software application itself, such as the word processor, spreadsheet package, database management software, or web browser, must also expressly support Active Accessibility. Last week, Microsoft released its long awaited Internet Explorer 4.0. Blind people had been advised that it would not be appropriate for them to download the platform preview releases, since Active Accessibility was not incorporated in these previews. However, on several Internet e-mail lists frequented by blind people interested in access technology, we were advised that Active Accessibility would be incorporated into the released version of Internet Explorer 4.0. Many blind people downloaded Internet Explorer 4.0 last week, only to find that Active Accessibility had not in fact been included. We therefore wish for Microsoft to be investigated under New Zealand's Fair Trading Act, and either fined or the product removed from shop shelves and web sites in New Zealand until the breech has been remedied by the inclusion of Active Accessibility. Wee were given an assurance by a Microsoft employee which has not been met, and therefore the product has been downloaded, or in some cases purchased on CD-ROM under false pretences. We also wish to lodge a formal complaint against Microsoft under the Hunan Rights Act 1993, on the grounds that Microsoft has discriminated against people with disabilities. The technology now exists for Microsoft to make its products accessible. Indeed, Microsoft has told people in the adaptive technology field that incorporating Active Accessibility into application software is a fairly simple process. As a leader in the computing marketplace, Microsoft must follow the standards it seeks to set for other software manufacturers. Now that such technology does exist, it is entirely inappropriate for the blind to be treated like second class citizens by Microsoft. Microsoft would not dream of releasing a product where the ability to use a mouse was not yet working, yet its blind customers are told that we must wait until they get around to releasing a patch to the software before we can use it. We trust that this matter will be given urgent consideration. Media statements will be issued advising of our complaint. Yours Sincerely Jonathan Mosen National President New Zealand Association of the Blind and Partially Blind Jonathan Mosen work: +64-4-389-0902 fax: +64-21-789-797 mobile: +64-21-643-797 http://www.rnzfb.org.nz/jmosen --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EEC00001Date: 10/07/97 From: KARIM LAKHANI Time: 04:52pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: webwatch-l www.guidedogs.com not ac16:52:4510/07/97 From: Karim Lakhani Subject: Re: webwatch-l www.guidedogs.com not accessible via Windows I use jfw 2.00.29 and have graphics turned on went to the site in question and had no problems using it. No person is your friend, who demands your silence, or denies your right to grow!!!! Karim Lakhani. email: lakhani1@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca On Mon, 6 Oct 1997, Tom Lange wrote: > Hi Pete, > Hmmm, I bet you have graphics turned on in both Netscape and Internet > Explorer. I usually check a site with graphics on and with graphics off > before I dismiss a site as being inaccessible. I suggest that you do > likewise. Last week I paid a visit to www.guidedogs.com in both modes just > to see how it behaved. Without graphics loaded, I had no trouble > whatsoever using Window-Eyes or JFW version 3. Actually, the site is, in > my view, well thought out and well-behaved. Ditch the graphics and you'll > be all right. Might I also suggest, kind sir, that you refrain from > bashing the site builder or organization to whom the site belongs until > you do a thorough analysis of the situation. Going off half-cocked like > that isn't cool and ticks people off, not to mention that it casts doubt > on your credibility. Let me hasten to add that this isn't a flame, just a > reproach. I will look at the site again and gladly eat my words if the > site has changed sufficiently within the past week to render it unusable. > > Tom > > On Mon, 6 Oct 1997, Pete Donahue wrote: > > > > > Hello listers, > > > > Last night I went to the Guide Dogs for the Blind Web Site at > > http://www.guidedogs.com, and much to my surprise found that I could not > > access the hyper links with either Netscape Navigator or Internet > > Explorer. I would very strongly urge all Guide Dogs GRaduates to contact > > GDB, and let them know on no uncertain terms that this kind ofdesign is > > unacceptible; expecially when it comes from an agency for the blind. One > > wonders if the company hosting this web site was given a lesson in making > > ttheir web pages accessible for the blind. Why did Guide Dogs not demand > > that this be done? This situation needs to be remedied if we areto be > > able to access the material on this site in Windows. Again, I want to > > urge GDB Graduates to contact both Guide Dogs for the Blind, and members > > of the GDB Gracuate Counsel to see to it that the GDB Site is redesigned > > to permit Windows access by the blind. > > > > Peter Donahue > > > > > > > > > --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EEC00002Date: 10/07/97 From: DAVID ANDREWS Time: 10:46pm \/To: JENNIE MILBURN (Read 0 times) Subj: Voting Jm> I agree with you. I wish that there was secret Jm> ballot voting in our state Jm> and local chapter. We use sighted people to count, Jm> and I wish that I had Jm> a way that no one knew how I was voting. They use Jm> my mother-in-law as one Jm> of the counters, and we disagree on a lot of Jm> things, and she often hounds Jm> me about it afterword. I know that I can still vote the way I want Many state and local organizations have figured out a way for people to vote anonymously. It usually involves reaching into some sort of covered box amd moving a specifically shaped object to another location. That is, the round ball represents candidate x and the cube represents candidate y. You move the appropriate ball, or some variation thereof. David Andrews --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: NFB NET St. Paul, MN (612) 696-1975 (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EED00000Date: 10/08/97 From: ANDY BARACCO Time: 07:44pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Resolution 97-04 Cont'd From: Andy Baracco Subject: Resolution 97-04 Cont'd After re-reading Resolution 97-04, I felt that some additional comments were necessary, because of all of the distortions, misconceptions, and misstatements that were part of one of the most poorly written resolutions that i have ever seen. Medical Model Let us begin with some historical perspective. Many of the techniques and devices used in the rehabilitation of the blind were developed by the V. A., including the techniques involved in the use of the long white cane. The impetus for blind rehabilitation was the number of soldiers who were blinded as a result of military combat. Because bullets, shells, and land mines do not discriminate as to the types of injuries they cause, many of these soldiers had injuries to several parts of their bodies, so it was reasonable to expect that their rehabilitation would be hospital based. At first, they were called patients because that was what they were. However, the term for a participant in these programs was changed to trainee, or student over 20 years ago. It is true that the V. A. blind rehab facilities are located on the grounds of V. A. hospitals. Why not? This again demonstrates judicious use of resources. With the cost of real estate and construction what it is, why not use facilities that the V. A. already owns? Why squander tax payers' money buying property and building buildings? The facilities that have been chosen to house blind rehabilitation programs are large, and have several buildings. The blind rehab center is typically housed in a building that is removed from the rest of the hospital, so the veteran knows that he is not considered a patient. Also, one must consider that the typical veteran participant is about 70 years old. This is much older than the typical non-veteran blind rehab client. Many of these veterans have medical problems other than blindness, and it is a great help to have needed medical care moments away. Also, the V. A. also offers blind rehabilitation services to veterans with severe psychiatric problems, such as Schizophrenia, severe depression, and Bi-polar affective disorders. These persons would probably not be accepted in N. F. B. or other centers. The V. A. should be commended and not ridiculed for offering services to these veterans. There are other advantages to having the program at this type of facility. These facilities resemble small cities, with buildings, sidewalks, and small streets, and even traffic. It is an ideal setting for beginning mobility training. As the students advance, they can walk to the exterior of the facility to find larger streets with more traffic. They also receive training in bus and train transportation. One other point, the V. A. does not feel that it is its place or mission to teach a philosophy of life. As a person learns skills, and his or her proficiency in these skills develops, so does self esteem and confidence. Then the person can incorporate his self concept into his existing life philosophy. I would think that as a Government agency, the V. A. could get into a lot of trouble espousing the philosophy of one organization, just like it would if it preached one religion. The veteran participants have free time, and are welcome to attend meetings or functions of any organization that they choose. As I said previously, I feel that the authors and supporters of this resolution have other adjendas, and care little about the welfare of veterans or anyone else besides themselves. It is troubling that a great organization like the N. F. B. immerses itself in these kinds of issues. Andy Baracco --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045)