--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EE500003Date: 10/04/97 From: PATRICK GORMLEY Time: 01:36am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: acb postings I read both the forum and the Monitor. One thing that is very interesting is to compare the differences in writing styles. Nolan Crab is a decent writer but Barbara is a much better editor and since I've been published a couple of times in Slate and Style as well as our state newsletter, I usually read the forum once and delete it. The monitor I spread around including at least a year's worth of listings on gbx. I used to send it directly but my phone bill began to look like the national debt so I had to resort to email to save money. Apparently dan is having some trouble with his board because I haven't seen issues past July of this year although I've emailed the last two including October to him. 73- KK3F --- Platinum Xpress/Wildcat! v1.3 * Origin: The TALKING HUB * Alexandria, VA * (703) 549-5612 (1:109/632) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EE500004Date: 10/05/97 From: SOUTHERN STAR Time: 01:15am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Expiration Warning Hello. The Zone 1 Backbone only carries echoes listed in the Zone 1/2 EchoList. It seems that the listing for this echo will expire this month. Thus, it is necessary for the moderator to update its listing if it is to remain on the Zone 1 Backbone. For more information please consult these files: BOFAQxxx.TXT and ELISTxxx.ZIP, where "xxx" is the version number. They are available from most hubs or can be requested from 1:1/200, 1:1/201 or 1:396/1. Regards, Zone 1 Backbone Operations --- Harvey's Robot v6.00 * Origin: Southern Star - sstar.com - V.32b/V.34+ - 504-885-5928 - (1:396/1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EE500005Date: 10/05/97 From: PETE DONAHUE Time: 01:11pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: Levi Strauss ad From: Pete Donahue Subject: Re: Levi Strauss ad Hello listers, I too have experienced a slight increased difficulty in getting folks to keep their hands off of my guide dog when I am working him. Just yesterday I had to get my sute out of the cleaners, and do some grocery shopping. While in the store I was waited on bya courtesy clerk who kept laughing while she was pulling my groceries. I also noticed that Tim was sniffing an awfull lot, and on a few occasions I felt him stop and pick something off of the floor. Twice I had to remove paper from hi smout6h, and I was constantly corecting him. I finally figured out that someone was throwing treats of the floor, and he was picking them up and eating them; paper and all. Finally I angrilly stopped the game, and let the folks whom I believed weredoing this that this was not funny, that it put mylife in danger, and that if they saw the Levie Strouce Commercial they needed to know what what they saw was not the proper protocol to follow when encountering a blind person with a guide dog. On another occasion last week I was in the same store and an old lady stopped me and asked me what my dog's name was. Knowing the game by now I told her his name, but that that didn't give her a license to talk to him, and otherwise distract him. She wasn't too happy about that, but I did what I had to do under the circumstances. I wonder what the National Association of Guide Dog Users is doing to counteract the missinsormation put out by that add. It seems to me that if we're agressively going after Mr. Magoo, and all he stands for with respec to blindness we need to fight this kind of trash with as much vigor. WE must not on the 0one hand appose the antics of a cartoon character, and let missconceptions, and mistaken ideas of guide dog ediquet go unchallanged as this kind of thing can put our veryylives in danger. Peter Donahue --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EE500006Date: 10/05/97 From: PETE DONAHUE Time: 01:34pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: October Meeting From: Pete Donahue Subject: October Meeting Hello fellow FEderationists and friends, Just a reminder that the October meeting of the Greater SAn Antonio Chatper of the National Federation of the Blind of Texas is just two weeks away. The meeting will take place on Saturday, October 18, 1997 at ehe Villa De Oro Appartments Clubhouse located at 130 Camino De Oro Road in SAn Antonio TExas. Thjis meeting will feature a prewsentation from mr. Bill Winscott; Coordinator of the new REsource Center at WArm Springs REhabilitation Hospital here in San Antonio. SEveral of our members have been serving as consultants to Warm Springs in order tohelp them select access technology for the blind for their new computer resource center which is currently under construction. When completed the center will contain computers and access technology for persons with all types of disabilities. it will feature state-of-the-art pc technology, a motion assesment lab and a video conferencing center. Learn more by attending our next meeting. And while I am at it let me also remind you that the 1997 South TExas Internet odyssey will take place on October 12, and 13 at the San Antonio Convention Center. This year we will showcase adaptive technology used by persons with various disabilities. So if your travel plans take you to San Antonio, or if you want to come and learn more about what's new in adaptive technology, or if you are looking for an oppportunity for some down-home Federationism Texas Stylke y'll come to our next chapter meeting and/or to the 1997 Internet Odyssey. Yours truuly, peter Donahue Secretary, Greater SAn Antonio Chapter National FEderation of the Blind of Texas --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EEA00000Date: 10/05/97 From: STEVE JACOBSON Time: 03:33pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: ACB Postings Hi George and Jennie, I hope you two don't feel you are being hammered to death on this. Here's a little more grist for the mill. An informed member of any organization is a better member of that organization. I feel it is my responsibility to know why we take the positions that we do in the NFB and part of that responsibility is to know what positions others advocate. I can't defend positions we take unless I know and understand the arguments that others might raise when opposing that position. However, I don't think it is the responsibility of the NFB, or the ACB for that matter, to distribute all points of view. As far as this echo or list, NFB-TALK, is concerned, I have seen many opinions expressed that reflect other viewpoints. There are people here who do not belong to this organization who do freely express themselves. Sometimes that is frustrating, but mostly it makes life interesting. Posts of official announcements seem to me to be another matter, though. Besides just confusing newcomers as someone else mentioned,forcing either organization to answer official posts of the other takes time away from whatever strategy they follow. If you think I am exaggerating, look back at the number of messages that have been generated by thie posting, and the time required by Mr. Gashel to write his responses. I can press the DELETE key, but he isn't really left with that choice. I don't think it is unreasonable for people to look here for our announcements without having to wade through announcements of other organizations. I can accept that we are all working in our ways to improve the quality of life for blind people, but as others have pointed out, the ways we choose to do that may be at odds. Finally, most of us reading this list are reading others as well. The fact that many of us want this list to be limited to our official postings doesn't really have much to do with whether one has an open mind. If anything, it's a way not to have to read so many things twice. {grin} Yes, we can skip messages, but we are also capable to subscribe to additional lists. By the way, if it isn't clear, I don't think we should cross-post our announcements to ACB lists either. -=> Quoting Jennie Milburn to All <=- JM> From: Jennie milburn JM> Subject: Re: ACB Postings JM> I agree wit George. Although I am a member of the Nfb, I am JM> open-minded to Acb. I am going to be receiving both Magizines, and am JM> a member of both guide dog divisions. Does that make me bad in the JM> eyes of the Nfb? I should hope not, because we should all try to help JM> each other out in times of need. Thanks for listening. JM> Jennie and the Aspen JM> express. puppya@primenet.com JM> -!- JM> ! Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: NFB NET St. Paul, MN (612) 696-1975 (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EEA00001Date: 10/05/97 From: STEVE JACOBSON Time: 03:47pm \/To: ANDY BARACCO (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: ACB Washington Conne Here's a weird one. When my wife worked for Hennepin county here in Minneapolis, they paid employees by check to cover parking costs in a parking ramp. She paid a large amount of money each month to hire a driver to visit foster homes around the county. That was as it should be, but, even though her driver sometimes used the ramp, they would not give my wife the parking ramp credit since she did not park her own car there. That was a long time ago, and I don't think that would happen today, or at least it would be challenged. I think we need to pay our own way, but we shouldn't neglect considering what is being paid to others. -=> Quoting Andy Baracco to All <=- AB> From: Andy Baracco AB> Subject: Re: ACB Washington Connection (fwd) AB> Hi Jennie. It isn't always true that employers don't pay for sighted AB> persons' transportation. The County of Los Angeles pays each employee AB> $70.00 per month for transportation. The employee can use it to pay AB> for parking, or to pay for public transportation. AB> Andy Baracco AB> -!- AB> ! Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: NFB NET St. Paul, MN (612) 696-1975 (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EEA00002Date: 10/05/97 From: ANDY BARACCO Time: 05:23pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: job posting at Guide Dogs for the Blind 17:23:4310/05/97 From: Andy Baracco Subject: job posting at Guide Dogs for the Blind (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 12:56:20 -0700 From: Kelly Ford Reply-To: blindjob - Employment Issues Concerning Blind People To: BLINDJOB@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU Subject: job posting at Guide Dogs for the Blind (fwd) ---------- Forwarded message ---------- Date: Sat, 4 Oct 1997 12:39:54 -0400 From: Jenine Stanley Reply-To: Orientation and Mobility To: Multiple recipients of list OANDM Subject: job posting at Guide Dogs for the Blind Guide Dog Users Inc. has been asked to help forward the following job posting. In discussions with Mr. Tom Day, the recruiter working with Guide Dogs for the Blind, he mentioned that they would very much like to consider a guide dog handler for this position. Whoever assumes this position must have extensive management experience. For more information about the position, please contact Mr. Tom Day at the address, phone and fax below. GDUI forwards this information in hopes that you will send it to anyone who may also be interested in the position. We take no further responsibility for the post or other things related to the position. The following job posting comes from the Guide Dogs for the Blind web site at http://www.guidedogs.com. Career Opportunities Position Description POSITION TITLE: Director of Training Operations REPORTS TO: President & Chief Executive Officer OVERALL SUMMARY: The Director of Training Operations is responsible for the "heart" of the GDB mission; i.e., training dogs and the blind in their use. This position oversees operations within the Training and Puppy Raising Departments, including but not limited to, ensuring that puppies are appropriately socialized, that sufficient numbers of dogs are trained, and that students and instructors receive training which fully meets both internal and external requirements. The incumbent will provide continuous quality improvement in the delivery of the organization's training mission, leading our efforts to modify and add services which meet the changing needs of prospective students. The incumbent will work closely with other senior managers to establish class schedules and to administer staff development programs to maintain a sufficient corps of fully qualified instructors. The incumbent will also participate in setting policy as a key member of GDB's senior management team. ESSENTIAL FUNCTIONS: Establish overall policies related to puppy raising, dog and student training. Ensure that the Training Department is adequately staffed to assure quality dog, student and staff training; and organized to assist with home interviews, student instruction, graduate follow-up, public speaking and other ancillary functions. Provide satisfactory staff training in the instruction of puppy raisers and students, dog training, and development of instructors in order to maintain high levels of excellence and consistency. Tools shall encompass enhanced training procedures, employee development, and use of modern technology with goal of "continuous improvement." Ensure sufficient dogs are available for training and class, and supervise their welfare. In Puppy Raising, further develop the program of puppy socialization to maximize the pups' chances of success as guides. Ensure consistency between the informal and formal phases of the training process. Further develop PRD's paid and volunteer staff resources. Serve on the Student Selection Committee and as a representative to the Council of U.S. Dog Guide Schools. Use people, money and time resources judiciously through organization of department staffs, budget planning, monitoring and controlling expenses. Serve as a key member of the senior management team, participating in policy setting, strategic and long term planning. Establish effective direction, goals and performance feedback for cost centers and individuals. Recruit, discipline and take other personnel actions necessary. ESSENTIAL REQUIREMENTS: Minimum of 7 years successful management experience. Track record of success with progressively increasing size and scope of responsibilities. Fully qualified guide dog instructor, or other professional dog or small animal experience, highly desired. Strong record of team building, direction setting and leadership. Proven effectiveness directing cross-functional operations. Ability to work with complex scheduling equations. Excellent written, oral, and personal presentation skills. Computer literate. Experience or good understanding of the nonprofit sectors desirable. College graduate preferred. PERSONAL ATTRIBUTES AND VALUES: Ability to articulate the mission and effectively lead others in fulfillment of that mission. Proactive communicator and problem solver with a bias towards action. High level thinker who can plan ahead as well as execute details on a day-in/day-out basis. Impeccable integrity and honesty. POSITION SPECIFICATIONS: This is a full-time, exempt, grade 16 position. Pay is commensurate with experience. HOW TO APPLY: Direct cover letter and resume to our Internet address: icareer@guidedogs.com or via mail to: Mr. Tom Day 215 W. Baltimore Avenue Larkspur CA 94939 Phone: 415-924-6900 Fax: 415-927-4505 Guide Dogs for the Blind, Inc. A Nonprofit Charitable Organization P.O. Box 151200 San Rafael, California 94915-1200 (415) 499-4000 / 800-295-4050 http://www.guidedogs.com/ Jenine Stanley Some days you're the windshield; some days you're the bug. Jeninems@infinet.com JMS-CAT Consultants on Access to Transportation http://www.infinet.com/~jeninems Please note that, should you ever wish to leave the BLINDJOB mailing list in the future, you may do so by sending an e-mail message to listserv@MAELSTROM.STJOHNS.EDU. Leave the subject line blank, and in the body of your message put the line unsubscribe BLINDJOB --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EEA00003Date: 10/05/97 From: PETE DONAHUE Time: 06:43pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: ACB Washington Conne From: Pete Donahue Subject: Re: ACB Washington Conne Hello listers, Okay people. If you want to continue to debate this ACB Posting business that's fine, but so we don't miss what could be a very important message could you please fit your subjects to the message. I've bbeen reading a number of messages with the subject heading, "ACB Washington Connection) or something like that and the messages have nothing to do with ACB, or anything on that thread. Please fit your subjects to the message body. Thanks much. Peter Donahue --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EEA00004Date: 10/01/97 From: MIKE FREEMAN Time: 03:47pm \/To: ANDY BARACCO (Read 0 times) Subj: ACB WASHINGTON CONNECTION On 25 Sep 97 15:51, Andy Baracco wrote: AB> Hello Mr. Gashel. I found your AB> description of your legislative strategy AB> regarding the Gordon amendment to be AB> most enlightening and informative. Mr. Gashel has been at it for many years. Believe me, the rehab community was very interested in our take on this issue and what we were going to do about it. I know certain agencies that were very interested in what Mr. Gashel had to say. AB> I'm curious as to why you didn't post AB> it behind my posts so the list AB> members could make a direct comparison AB> of points of view. Is that because AB> it is your position that the AB> membership should simply lock step and that AB> they are not capable of thinking for AB> themselves? When are you going to AB> stop this war mentality? We are not Two things: First, it is not we that are speaking of war or a war mentality. It is you and a few others for whom, it seems, nothing NFB members say or do can be taken at face value. You and a few others always seem hell-bent to find a conspiracy of silence or some sinister plot to dupe the rank-and-file of NFB or deprive it of valuable information. Frankly, it is a favored (and somewhat old-hat and irritating) tactic of those who dislike us or who would cause us trouble to set up strawmen and then knock them down, parading arguments of freedom of speech and thought, etc. Questions and observations seem often in the character of "When was the last time you beat your wife?" In other words, views are put and questions asked in such a way that there is no right answer short of espousing positions of other organizations, specifically, ACB, with whom we don't necessarily agree (or disagree) and whose policies are not up for discussion here. I do not necessarily subscribe to the notion that your posts are politically-movitivated. They may or may not be. But if you are able to sit back and look at what's going on here, setting asside your apparent feeling that there is no difference between the two organizations of the blind (NFB and ACB), I should think you'd be hard-put not to at least see (if not understand) why some on this list might bristle at some of your posts. Second, what order posts appear in varies from system to system -- it depends upon when differing posts arrive, what order of presentation you have your mailer set for, and, in the case of Fidonet systems, where you are in the country. So trumpeting the fact that there was a time-lapse between your post of ACB advisories and Mr. Gshel's response as some sort of reluctance to discuss issues openly won't wash and is patently unfair. AB> living in the 1960's, and waving the AB> bloody shirt is getting kind of old. No one waved the "bloody shirt". We and ACB had somewhat differing strategies for attacking this issue. Most of us, being NFB members, were rather more interested in what our strategy was going to be than what ACB's was/is. Neither NFB nor ACB can compel its membership to do anything. But we in NFB have a tradition of acting in unity -- voluntarily, I might add. It is our experience that we pack more political punch that way! AB> Regardless of the total membership of AB> the organizations that make u the AB> organized blind movement, those numbers AB> are pitifully small when compared to AB> all of the interest groups competing AB> for the collective legislative ear. I True. That's why we need to husband our resources and use what strength we have to maximum effect. AB> do not think that we earn any AB> political currency by arguing with one AB> another. I wonder how long it will The arguments started when you put ACB postings on this list and some NFB members objected that they wished to use their limited time and energy to read posts from the leaders of their own organization. In fact, in this instance, NFB and ACB, to my knowledge, did not differ as to the end desired. We did differ somewhat as to the means to be employed to achieve that end. But even if we *had* differed, what's wrong with that? Are you saying that we should suffer an abridgement of freedom of speech and thought by failing to argue for positions we believe correct? Surely you are not saying: "I believe in your right to think as you like as long as you agree with me!" Disagreements are part of our blessed society. Yes, it would be better if all agreed on strategy. Sometimes this works. But doing so at the cost of foresaking fundamental beliefs serves us all ill. AB> take for you to come to realize that. AB> I think that you have heard from AB> several of the list members that they AB> want, and feel that they deserve to AB> hear different viewpoints. What do you All they had to do was look at ACB's web page to get them. AB> fear by allowing that to happen. There's a fine example of what I wrote of earlier. You define our attitude as one of fear. The most vehement posts opposing you spoke not of being afraid but of having their time wasted! How about getting off it and relaxing a bit and realizing that the primary purpose of the list is for the discussion of NFB philosophy and principles. This means asking questions, too. Incidentally, I *do* read the Forum which is more than most ACB members in my community do. AB> Many of your comments obviously spring AB> from fear. Hey, Jim, what are you AB> afraid of? Ah, that wonderful little word "obviously". Obvious to whom? Mike Freeman; Internet: mikef@pacifier.com; Amateur Radio Callsign: K7UIJ President, National Federation of the Blind of Washington /* PGP2.6.2 Public Key available via my ".plan" file */ ... A professor is someone who talks in someone else's sleep. --- PCRR QWK 1.60 --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Pacifier Online Data Service (1:105/101) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: EEA00005Date: 10/02/97 From: MIKE FREEMAN Time: 08:36am \/To: JIM GASHEL (Read 0 times) Subj: ACB WASHINGTON CONNECTION On 25 Sep 97 16:34, Jim Gashel wrote: JG> in this case I don't think we are JG> really talking about a matter of free JG> speech, since andy is perfectly free JG> to post the acb messages to any list JG> that would find them consistent with JG> its purposes. in this case, i don't This raises an interesting question -- one not particularly connected with NFB philosophy. At least one court has ruled that free speech should be protected on the Internet more zealously than it is in other media because, in effect, it is now a "people's medium", to paraphrase the court ruling. Specifically, the court was declaring that part of the 1996 Telecomm Act onconstitutional that subjected the Internet and ISPs to decency standards. It should be noted, however, that this only applies to *government*. Private entities, specifically ISPs, are perfectly free to censor what flows thru their T1 connections. For example, no one enjoins ISPs to carry or not to carry certain Usenet newsgroups and Usenet FAQs specifically state this. ISPs are perfectly entitled to block SPAM mail. Not all do so, believing this opens cans of worms they would rather not deal with. But others market themselves specifically *because* of their blocking of mail from certain sites and/or certain nesgroups. What I'm driving at is this: although some participants appropriate the cause of free speech when advocating a certain style of list conduct, it doesn't really apply -- at least, not yet -- to private entities runing listservs or carrying Usenet newsgroups. It will be interesting to see where all this leads if courts broaden free speech protections to include enjoining ISPs from censoring mail or Usenet newsgroups. Mike Freeman --- PCRR QWK 1.60 --- FLAME v1.1 * Origin: Pacifier Online Data Service (1:105/101)