--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: DF200005Date: 11/01/96 From: PETE DONAHUE Time: 08:38pm \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Seeing Eye Resolution From: Pete Donahue Subject: Re: Seeing Eye Resolution Fellow Federationists and Friends, Just a little more chum to throw on the water regarding exhibits. Have we not forgotten that there are also evenings during the convention for the exhibit hall to be opened. This wood prevent the staff and others from missing another day's work at the officeand would afford Federationists more time to visit the exhibit hall. However as has all ready been noted it takes staff and personnel to run the booths in the exhibit hall. We must take in to account how the vendors and other exhibitors feel about adding evening hours to an all ready busy schedule. I won't say if this should or shouldn't be done.rather I am just mentioning it as another option for those who would like to see the exhibit hall opend longer. Getting to the SEeing Eye for just a second I would like to say something I said in an earlier post to this list. That is if Seeing Eye dosn't feel that $5500.00 is a constuructive use of their resources perhaps they might want to replaced their graduate reunion with a booth in the exhibit hall. I am rather surprised that they don't have one there any way. Furthermore, any one who has read recent issues of Harness Up has heard Paul Gabbias urge the guide dog shools not to just take in a few days of our aional conventions just for their own perposews, but they should make it a pollicy to stay for the duration of the convention. Several of them, leader Dogs and The Guide Dog Foundation spend the entire week at our national conventions and in redent years both now have booths in the \exhibit hall. One wonders why a school like Seeing Eye with all of it's millions of dollars in legasseys, contributions and what ever else would make it a pollicy to stay for the entire national convention rather than just showing up for a few days and running. I would hope that this situation will change in the future. Anyway that's all I have to say on the matter. Take care and have a good eveningg. Yours truly, Peter Donahue --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: DF200006Date: 11/01/96 From: LE BIG MAC Time: 09:46pm \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Seeing Eye Resolution From: le big mac Subject: Re: Seeing Eye Resolution hehe thats why i stay in the middle, much safer. and can gre/ dissagree with eather. At 05:50 PM 11/1/96, you wrote: > > > HH> Regarding your first point. Everyone is entitled to > HH> his or her own oppinion. > > HH> Secondly could it be that I am advancing a view > HH> that is different from the national and that's why > HH> you disagree? >Yes everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. > >Secondly, I disagree with you because I disagree with you. It is a position I have freely taken. I am tempted to ask why you are a NFB member if you disagree with as much as you seem to. > >I don't agree with everything, but I agree with more than 51 percent. If it is much less, I would have to question my membership. >David Andrews > > *** Shawn Keen *** *** orange@eden.com *** ============== The voices told me to stay home today and clean the guns. ========== --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: DF300000Date: 11/02/96 From: WALT CONE Time: 08:39am \/To: MIKE FREEMAN (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Seeing Eye Resolution Hi Mike, How are you? Friday, 1 November 1996 11:38:38, Mike Freeman wrote to All Subject: Re: Seeing Eye Resolution MF> that's shoddylogic and dirty pool. You have placed Mr. Andrews MF> in a position wherein no matter what he answers, you won't be MF> satisfied. If he answers "no", there is no way for him to MF> prove it in a fashion which I suspect you would accept. If he MF> answers "yes", then you have placed him in the positionof MF> saying he's disingenuous -- which is probably what you expect MF> anyway. MF> IMHO such tactics are inimical to rational discourse. I would MF> respectfully ask that there be no more of such sophistry. MF> Mike Freeman Well I have to agree with that. You have a good idea but I don't think it will catch on. Walt .!. A stitch in time would have confused Einstein. --- Terminate 4.00/Pro * Origin: Enoc bbs (tacoma Washington) (1:138/317.1) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: DF300001Date: 11/02/96 From: HARVEY HEAGY Time: 04:03pm \/To: DAVID ANDREWS (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Seeing Eye Resolution In a message David Andrews typed to Harvey Heagy DA> I don't ever remember exhibits being opened on Wednesday morning, but I DA> haven't gone for ever. I meant Thursday morning as the morning we used to have access to exhibits. DA> On the one hand you say DA> there isn't enough exhibit time, then you say some of them are closed DA> during the time there is. Seems like a controdiction. I'm just stating facts. It is a fact that the N.F.B. store is closed on Wednesday afternoon as are many exhibitors. I think we should have Thursday morning and the Saturday before the convention. DA> Saturday is really considered pre-convention and setup. It seems to grow DA> each year and a case could be made to open exhibits a day earlier. It DA> would mean that the whole staff would have to come a day earlier, missing a DA> days work in Baltimore, etc. So, it comes out at some considerable DA> expense, among other things. True, but when I first began going to conventions in 1975, there was no activity on either side of the convention. It was strictly Sunday through Friday or whenever the convention was held. There was no pre or post convention activity. Now we have grown into that. This has meant that I have had to leave at least a day earlier and have had in some cases to take an extra day off from my job as well. Harvey --- msged 2.07 * Origin: The Metairie Point -- New Orleans, LA (1:396/1.13) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: DF300002Date: 11/02/96 From: HARVEY HEAGY Time: 04:05pm \/To: DAVID ANDREWS (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Seeing Eye Resolution In a message David Andrews typed to Harvey Heagy DA> Yes everyone is entitled to his/her opinion. DA> DA> Secondly, I disagree with you because I disagree with you. It is a DA> position I have freely taken. I am tempted to ask why you are a NFB member DA> if you disagree with as much as you seem to. Just because I think we should have more exhibit time and because I disagree with the Seeing Eye resolution shouldn't make me less of a member. And I do think the national leadership does need to take a look at the way it conducts itself. It has gotten too powerful and has, in effect, placed itself in a position where it for all practical purposes does not have to answer to anyone including the members. There's a saying, "power corrupts absolutely and absolute power corrupts." That's where our leadership is now and I think that's dangerous. I support the national leadership when I believe it to be right, and I let it know when I believe it is wrong. I believe that is not only my right but my responsibility as a member. Harvey --- msged 2.07 * Origin: The Metairie Point -- New Orleans, LA (1:396/1.13) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: DF400000Date: 11/03/96 From: STEVE JACOBSON Time: 03:41pm \/To: HARVEY HEAGY (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Seeing Eye Resolutio Harvey, -=> Quoting Harvey Heagy to David Andrews <=- HH> Just because I think we should have more exhibit time and HH> because I disagree with the Seeing Eye resolution shouldn't HH> make me less of a member. I think you must know that Dave Andrews did not say that. Disagreeing with you is as much our right as is stating your opinion yours. To ignore what we think because we happened to be in the majority is not fair. HH> And I do think the national leadership does need to take a look at the HH> way it conducts itself. It has gotten too powerful and has, in HH> effect, placed itself in a position where it for all HH> practical purposes does not have to answer to anyone HH> including the members. There's a saying, "power corrupts HH> absolutely and absolute power corrupts." That's where our HH> leadership is now and I think that's dangerous. I support HH> the national leadership when I believe it to be right, and HH> I let it know when I believe it is wrong. I believe that HH> is not only my right but my responsibility as a member. Letting the national leadership know when "it is wrong" is fine, but what is to be gained when you simply write off opinions that do not conform to yours as those of a corrupted national leadership? I entered into the discussion of the Seeing Eye resolution with the idea that it is a good idea to understand differing points of view. However, it seems that as soon as one area has been covered that the discussion gets less and less specific. First we're discussing a resolution, then what we charge all exhibitors, then exhibiting hours, and now the accountability and reputation of our national leadership. Since this is a public forum for discussion, even though it is called NFB-Talk, I feel obligated to state that I have seen resolutions loose that were supported by our officers, and I have seen our officers change their minds when it became evident that there was a lack of support for a given resolution. I have tried to be careful not to belittle your position even though I did not agree with it, so why discount those who disagree with you as simply echoing the position of the leadership. By that definition, how can supporting a position held by our leaders have any credibility with you? Let's let this rest. Steve Jacobson others ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: NFB NET St. Paul, MN (612) 696-1975 (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: DF400001Date: 11/03/96 From: "RAUL A. GALLEGOS" Time: 06:17pm \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: #guitalk on irc From: "Raul A. Gallegos" Subject: #guitalk on irc Hello listers. Sorry for the multiple posting. There is now a new channel available on irc called #guitalk. This channel is dedicated to the discussion of GUI products such as Windows screen readers and other Windows applications. If you are interested, simply get on irc using the irc.dal.net server and /join #guitalk. Note the slash before the join and the numbersign before the guitalk. If you need instructions on using irc, please email me privagtely. My email addresses are below. Thanks and hope to see you on dalnet. Take Care! Raul A. Gallegos in denver, Co. USA. Email: raul@pobox.com - terminator@pobox.com - rctg@diac.com Fido : 1:104/512.8 - 1:109/921.15 Phone: 1-303-757-7730 --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: DF400002Date: 11/03/96 From: BARBARA FREEMAN Time: 06:22pm \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: Re: Seeing Eye Resolution From: Barbara Freeman Subject: Re: Seeing Eye Resolution Harvy: You say that the entire leadership of the NFB is both corrupt and all powerfull. You also imply that we are not a membership run organization but that all of us who do not hold high office are fools who don't know we are being lead around by the nose. Then you wonder why people get a little miffed at you. If this is the case then why is it that some resolutions backed by the leadership did not pass this year? I have never been in the room when you got up on the floor and nominated someone else for leadership and I have been going to conventions since 1983. Who is leadership anyway? The national president the local president. You don't like the fact that people don't all aggree with you so you strike out in a way that hurts our reputation in the blind community. When you send a message on the internet you are publishing to the world. Barbara Freeman barbie@pacifier.com --- * Origin: NFBnet <--> Internet Email Gateway (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: DF400003Date: 11/03/96 From: BRIAN LINGARD Time: 09:24am \/To: HARVEY HEAGY (Read 1 times) Subj: convention Hi Harvey: I suppose technically you could choose to attend just the convention itself, but this might leave out some interesting and informative pre and post convention activities. Well at least in 1997 you don't have far to travel to the convention and if the New Orleans Transit Commission oops forgot, you're in the U.S. so it is The New Orleans Transit Authority offers early enough buses, you can commute to the convention from home and save hotel charges. Hopefully the N.O.T.A. runs good and late so you can get home from late events or parties. What time do bars in New Orleans close? Or do they ever? I thought Quebec across the river from me coud open the bar at 7 a.m. Nopte. They have rules. Got to be 8 a.m. before you can have irish coffee with your grits and bars must close by 3 a.m. the next morning. However Quebec has a lot of "late Bars" which just forget to close at 3 a.m. and close when they want whenever that is. Here in Ontario, the bars are open 11:30 a.m. to 2 a.m. I can remember when you couldn't get a drink in Ontario on a Sunday to save your soul or wet your whistle. It is within living memory that movies and fairs did not operate on Sundays here. How dull eh? ... Drop your carrier ... we have you surrounded! --- Blue Wave v2.12 [NR] * Origin: NFB NET St. Paul, MN (612) 696-1975 (1:282/1045) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 233 NFB BLIND NEWS Ref: DF400004Date: 11/03/96 From: DAVID ANDREWS Time: 09:43pm \/To: ALL (Read 1 times) Subj: 1997 Washington Seminar From slabarre@henge1.henge.com Wed Oct 30 16:38:06 1996 Date: Wed, 30 Oct 1996 08:48:28 -0700 (MST) From: Scott LaBarre Reply-To: wacwimtbb-l@netcom.com To: wacwimtbb-l@netcom.com Cc: nabs-l@netcom.com Subject: Washington Seminar Greetings from Colorado: There has been some confusion in recent times about how reservations should be made for the Washington Seminar. In the past, Diane McGeorge has handled all hotel reservations for the Federation. This practice is still in place. Again, Diane will be taking reservations for the Washington Seminar. She can be reached at 303 765-1330. She will be happy to take your personal and group reservations beginning now. Make them now because in recent years we have had problems with space disappearing at the last moment. If you call the Holiday Inn directly,you will not get the special Federation rates which are $85.00 for singles, $90.00 for doubles, $95.00 for tripples, and $100.00 for quads a night. Diane also tells me that she will soon get an E-mail address, and we will be able to make reservations through that address. Thank you very much for your attention to this message. Please feel free to send me a message if you have any questions. Looking forward to seeing you in Washington, Scott LaBarre --- Maximus/2 2.02 * Origin: NFB NET St. Paul, MN (612) 696-1975 (1:282/1045)