--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: EA100001 Date: 05/31/97 From: MATRIKA Time: 01:18pm \/To: ZIG-ZAG (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: New echo How I stopped drinking even when I didn't really want to is a secret I learned from some AA old-timers and I'd like to pass it on to you. By the way, I'm sober ten years as of last April 18th. It keeps me sober even when I really want a drink - as I did last Feb. tenth after watching my father die, from lung cancer. . The secret is that if I don't pick up the first drink, I won't get drunk because it's the first drink that (biochemically) triggers a physical compulsion to continue drinking and a mental obsession with booze even when I'm sober. When I take the first drink, I keep drinking until I am no longer able to - for whatever reason, usually running out of supply - and then I can't keep it out of my head. . It was hard as hell to not drink no matter what at first; however, I found out that what they told me was true - I didn't even have to drink if my butt fell off. (GRIN) I also didn't have to drink no matter what happened to me - good or bad. What a surprise THAT was! But so far, in spite of a lot of challenges I've been facing in my life, it's been worth it. The challenges are a part of everyone's life, in one way or another - that's living life on life's terms. I don't like some of what I've been going through; however, I know that if I drink that obsession and compulsion - not to mention the shakes coming off the drunk, to whatever degree I'd have them, would just make everything a whole lot worse in the long run. And the good parts of my life are even better today without booze. Most of all, when I do face challenges, most of the time I can DO something beneficial about them in some way because I am sober enough to do so - just as normal folks do when facing their problems. . By the way, another thing I've found about this is that I can't stay away from the first drink alone - that's where AA comes in for me. I need help. I need to get humble enough to ask for help. Some people even need medical help and a detox/rehab hospital or "going into treatment" to get started. But if you have a desire to stay sober and want sobriety enough to become willing to go to any lengths to get it and keep it, that's the only requirement for AA membership. In fact the cofounders were once asked to change that to a SINCERE desiere; however, they decided against it as they recognized that most newcomers - including themselves - had not been all that sincere, just desperate. Take it from me, desperation really helps. (Grin) . I hope this helps you. Thanks for letting me share it. We in AA help other Alcoholics or folks with drinking problems for ourselves - it helps us to stay sober for another day. So I really appreciate the oppurtunity to share with you today. Have a good one! --- TriToss (tm) Professional 11.0 - #66 * Origin: Keystone BBS * Shrewsbury, MA * 508-753-3767 (1:322/743.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: EA100002 Date: 05/31/97 From: MATRIKA Time: 01:43pm \/To: HAROLD DUGGAN (Read 0 times) Subj: Hps will is what makes you feel good Just a thought - about becoming a RC (I assume ) or "celibate" priest - in my area, at least, we have a couple of sober priests in AA. If you are in AA or another 12 step recovery program, you might find your best way to get feedback on this in recovery is to look one up. Many of them do 12 step retreats and so on. . As far as music, I don't know why a priest couldn't use music to praise the Higher Power of his understanding - I know some RC nuns who do so. . But I'd like to share with you that for me, religion has been a point that has haunted my recovery. You see I've always been religiously inclined, even before I got sober. I had a head full of theology - of various and sundry kinds - and a belly full of booze and drugs, not to mention that my life was a mess. Part of my relapse - the only one I've had, over ten years ago now - was getting involved in a religion in a leadership position, which left me little or no time for AA and for spirituality. Even today, in sobriety, to my shock and amazement, I have ended up joining a Church - after swearing off Christendom in all it's forms forever years ago. Because of the organization of the Church I now belong to, well, it has been a large part of an overall picture - including severe physical disability that keeps me from driving (visual - legal, but NOT total, blindness, some call it) - I have found it very hard to get to meetings. . The part the Church plays in it is to get in my head and to tell me that I've "Got" the spirituality now, so I don't need AA meetings - it also takes up alot of time that I might otherwise get to go to meetings in, again and again. This even when I swear to myself it would not do so anymore. Because in this system, I find myself in situations where I have to obey priesthood authority, as I've promised to do. It's easy to blame the Church, but it's me too - I fall for the idea that I can handle this with just me and God. I probably could too, if I had one honest bone in my body when it comes to booze and drugs. But I don't - which is why I have to find ways in my recovery program to "KEEP IT SIMPLE" - and it's why I need to stay in touch with recovering people to help me by keeping me honest about my booze problem. . Frankly, where I've used religion to decieve myself so often in the past, I find it extremely hard. The bottom line for me is to remember the time when I had a head full of comparitive religion, theological theory, etc. and a belly full of booze and drugs and an absolutely MISERABLE life. As opposed to this, in AA and recovery programs like it, I've found myself able to USE some of the great ideas I learned from all the religions I've studied because of the 12 steps - and so having an okay life, most of the time. . Now if you can sort all this out and keep your recovery simple and still be a priest, I'm all for it - go for it! that's great. But I do think it takes a great deal of honesty to do this. Especially since some people tend to make recovering clergy into AA - or whatever fellowship - gurus. And then it's like being "in the field" (working with alcoholics and/or addicts professionally, in detoxes, rehabs, halfway houses, outpatient, etc) where many feel that they have to always model recovery and say how great it is, so they feel they can't share their own burdens. Many people who've been in recovery a long time feel the same way. I think that is why relapse is so common among these types of people - especially those in the "helping" fields. (And I did work "in the field" briefly for three months myself - that's when my relapse BEGAN, thank God the only one I've had, one day at a time) . As far as not being able to be a priest without a significant other or romantic partner, I'm surprised anyone in AA or in recovery would tell you that. Most of us find these kind of relationships the biggest challenge in our recovery. I know I do. I know many folks in program who choose to stay out of relationships, not for religious reasons, but for their own sanity. In fact, come to think of it, many of the ordinary, non-alcoholics I know also find romantic relationships the hardest area of their lives to deal with too. . In a case like yours, I'd follow what the AA step book suggest - seek for God's will and to make sure you aren't deceiving yourself, run it by your sponsor in the program, perhaps a counselor, a spiritual advisor, and others you trust. Then pray some more and go with what you think is best, taking the advice into consideration. You can always try it and change your mind, if it's not right for you later on, as I understand it. . GOOD LUCK and GOD BLESS as you seek to find the right path for you. --- TriToss (tm) Professional 11.0 - #66 * Origin: Keystone BBS * Shrewsbury, MA * 508-753-3767 (1:322/743.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: EA200000 Date: 05/30/97 From: RICK BALDWIN Time: 07:20pm \/To: PHIL BARTER (Read 0 times) Subj: Sponsorees M> Actually, if you write to Phil Barter here on Fido, I believe he can > arrange it - just tell him you want to be on the same recovery e-mail > list that Judy L./Matrika is on. Hi Phil... Can you subscribe me to the above mentioned list? My email address is Rick.Baldwin@Lroom.Org. Thanks for any assistance you can offer... -- SPEED 2.00 [NR]: "Coroners have bars?" - Dr. Niles Crane --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: LindenRoom BBS (901) 458-9001 (1:123/215) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: EA300000 Date: 06/01/97 From: RICK BALDWIN Time: 04:59pm \/To: MATRIKA (Read 0 times) Subj: Sponsorees M> Actually, if you write to Phil Barter here on Fido, I believe he can > arrange it - just tell him you want to be on the same recovery e-mail > list that Judy L./Matrika is on. Thanks Judy, I have done that! On another subject, I was reading your comments elsewhere about how even before your recovery, you were always religiously inclined, but that your church has been more of a hinderence than a help in your recovery.... I have found this also. I was raised a Roman Catholic, but later got involved with a Southern Baptist church, became 'born again' many years ago. Later got disillusioned because of the strident conservatism (both political and theological) that I observed. Anyway, I have found...and this has been quite a revelation to me...that God 'as I understand Him' is quite different from the God of the denominations I had been exposed to. In my heart of hearts, I believe that God cares relatively little about our stance on various doctrinal issues. I don't think it is of overwhelming importance to Him whether we believe or not in a trinitarian three-in-one od. I don't think my stance on biblical inerrancy keeps God awake at nights. . Heck, I'm not sure it's of overwhelming importance to Him whether we identify ourselves as Christian, or Jewish, or whatever! (Yes, I would be marched out of any decent Baptist church for saying the above). God as I understand Him is much more concerned about whether I walk humbly in love and obedience to Him...and whether I love my neighbor as myself. I think we are all going to be pleasantly surprised to someday discover how very little all this other stuff matters to God. My understanding of God in these terms has meant a great deal to me and to my recovery. -- SPEED 2.00 [NR]: Proof that God has a sense of humor: We have one. --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: LindenRoom BBS (901) 458-9001 (1:123/215) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: EA300001 Date: 06/02/97 From: RICK BALDWIN Time: 01:46am \/To: HARRIET LEVY (Read 0 times) Subj: Eight HL> I'm a little late in posting it, but May 3rd was 8 years without a > drink or drug. Congratulations Harriet! You and others like you are a definite ncouragement. Thank you! -- SPEED 2.00 [NR]: 1. Don't sweat the small stuff. 2. Its ALL small stuff. --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: LindenRoom BBS (901) 458-9001 (1:123/215) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: EA300002 Date: 06/02/97 From: RICK BALDWIN Time: 01:46am \/To: MATRIKA (Read 0 times) Subj: Hps will is what makes yo > The part the Church plays in it is to get in my head and to tell me > that I've "Got" the spirituality now, so I don't need AA meetings Here's a thought...when someone communicates the above to you, what does it indicate that they are more interested in...your well being, or a 'notch' in the church's belt because it can dominate another member? Mind you, Matrika, please don't think this is an attack on your church! It s, however, an attack on this attitude, and one can find shallow individuals who share it in just about any church. The wise spiritual shepherd, however, will care more about your spritual well being, and will be delighted that you are growing. Which group gets 'credit' for it will be irrelevant. There may be much good about your Church, and there may be some wonderful individuals there, but don't let *anyone* try to tell you that the organization is more important than your one-on-one relationship with God. You know better... -- SPEED 2.00 [NR]: Progress, not Perfection. --- Platinum Xpress/Win/Wildcat5! v2.0 * Origin: LindenRoom BBS (901) 458-9001 (1:123/215) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: EA300003 Date: 06/01/97 From: OTIS Time: 09:35am \/To: ZIG-ZAG (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: New echo Hi Zig ZZ> Thanks for the welcoming party... :) ZZ> I installed this echo on my board not for entertainment, but that I'm ZZ> thinking of giving up my drinking habit. I got in trouble a few weeks ZZ> back.(Blackout)! ZZ> And i've just got back from court, I don't know how I could stop ZZ> drinking if I don't realy want too... Because I like drinking allot, ZZ> but it's the next day I don't like at all. Anywho :-) I'll be looking ZZ> in from time to time and mabey just mabye I'll see something that ZZ> would talk to me ! I used to like to drink alot myself....but then the blackouts and what I called the OH NO'S the next day and trying to figure out if what I did was real or something I dreamed up in my mind while only half "Shake "N" Baked" When I first stopped drinking I thought that life as I knew it was over as everything I did at that time revolved around alcohol. I drove the car I drank, if I went to a friends I always had a couple of six packs one in each hand and stayed until they were all gone then stopped on the way home at a neighbourhood pub to get some more. Out in the boat as I left the dock I can still hear the sound the tab on the can being pulled open. Then one day as I was drinking I started to get heart burn from the beer.....and I pondered what to do....and at that time I was not thinking along the lines of stopping drinking at all only thought what can I drink that will not give me eartburn. I decided on wine as it was even a faster buzz....and it also came in 4 litre boxes that fit very nicely into the fridge. Only problem was that with the wine I was then having more blackouts and was very uncertain of just who I would be under the influence of the wine so, I slowly stopped going anywhere and started to isolate. Once my isolation was complete meaning that I went to work sometimes and then home to drink. (In the end that was life as I knew it and I was worried it would change.....what a joke) It was at this time I remember the wine glass changing size. I started with a normal wine glass and then I thought I am spending too much time going back and forth to the fridge for a refill so I changed the glass to an old A&W RootBeer glass (Mug with a handle) About 9 ounces in size. But it wasn't long before this new glass was getting empty just as fast as the small wine glass did so I changed the glass once again. This time I went to a Beer mug (1/2 litre in size). But this was no help as this never seemed to remain full either as I drink everything like a shooter, including the coffee I still drink. AHHH back to heartburn...well it continued anyway even with the wine. Then one day after I came home I poured a mug of wine and bang down it went and poured another took it outside to work on this old truck I have. I fired up the disk grinder to do some body work and the grinding slipped and bounced off my left wrist. That was the end of my drinking career and the start of my journey to the doors of AA and into recovery....I have never gone back since. Now this was not the first problem I had while drinking but it was the last one. Oh like you I was in court a few times family had left but still I drank and carried on the same way as always but the situation I was this time seemed different for some reason and I can't explain way either but it was. Something clicked and I figure I had had enough. Remembering back to the first few meetings thoughts were there that my life would now being BORING that of a person with no friends and nowhere to go with nothing to do. But as the fog in the mind started to clear I realized that was exactly where my life had progressed while I was drinking boring, no friends and nowhere to go or for that...no where I wanted to go then. That is small piece of what happened and to get me to the point I am at now. They talk about the easier softer way well for this old drunk the easier softer way is not to drink on a daily bases. You take care and I hope to see some more from you in here from time to time. <---------------- | Otis "Just For Today" <-------------------------- | | ZZ> ps Wy are you involved ZZ> with this topic? --- Ezycom V1.20 * Origin: Jack Squat 604-531-7370 White Rock B.C. (1:153/9123) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: EA400000 Date: 06/03/97 From: PHIL BARTER Time: 07:50am \/To: RICK BALDWIN (Read 0 times) Subj: Sponsorees RB> Hi Phil... RB> Can you subscribe me to the above mentioned list? My email address i RB> Rick.Baldwin@Lroom.Org. Thanks for any assistance you can offer... it would be eaiser if you, and anybody else who may be interested, drop a note to RecoverEmail at recovery@splusnet.com you are very welcome to join us. pass the word. Phil --- TriToss (tm) Professional 11.0 - #66 * Origin: Keystone BBS * Shrewsbury, MA * 508-753-3767 (1:322/743.0)