--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: E2L00000 Date: 02/15/97 From: GARY KOPYCINSKI Time: 08:21pm \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: Debtors Anonymous Has anyone here had any experience with Debtors Anonymous? I'd like to chat. GK --- Maximus 3.01 * Origin: The Shire * (708) 755-0915 * Steger, IL (1:2222/147) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: E2L00001 Date: 02/15/97 From: TIM DILL Time: 09:14am \/To: ALL (Read 0 times) Subj: a joke Hello, welcome to the psychiatric hotline: If you're obsessive-compulsive, please press 1 repeatedly. If you're co-dependent, please ask someone to press 2. If you have multiple personalities, please press 3, 4, 7 and 9. If you're paranoid-delusional, we know who you are ... just stay on the line so we can trace this call. If you're schizophrenic, listen carefully and a little voice will tell you which number to press. If you're manic-depressive it doesn't matter which number you press ... no-one will answer. If you have an oppositional personality disorder, smash the receiver against the wall several times and we'll get back to you. If you're contemplating suicide please hold for the next available representative. ... This is more exciting than Woody Allen on Valium. --- PPoint 2.00 * Origin: Trudging the road in Brooklyn N.Y. (1:116/3000.13) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: E2L00002 Date: 02/15/97 From: TIM DILL Time: 09:22am \/To: MARGE CLARK (Read 0 times) Subj: What's Wrong with me On (11 Feb 97) Marge Clark was mumbling to Tim Dill... MC> I thought I heard Tim Dill (1:116/3000.13) say: MC> it is ALWAYS california that quote refers to...dunno why... I dunno why either, but -=legend=- has it when one of the first meetings were opened in Long Beach CA. The 'podium pounder' (speaker from my former neck of the woods) read the first part of the 5th Chapter to let the still smelling of alcohol "How it works", since then the format of most CA meetings use this format.... ->> It's another one of my ongoing spiritual crises. MC> and, this time, not one you necessarily manufactured. MC> there is SO much difference between clubhouse meetings and hanging MC> out, and small group in a basement meetings. HUGE difference. and MC> then there's brooklyn.... Yes, either the city has changed or I did since I last saw it when I was 17. It's gotten cleaner, less garbage in the streets, or I am in a different neighborhood. No matter... I have gotten to the point of actually listening to the meetings again and that is a good thing. The directions of have not changed (Steps) it's just that it's done differently here. Cold church basements Vs. warm and dry meeting rooms... that in itself is a culture shock... and folks seem more guarded here (at least that's what it appears to me) If it was not for the "Meeting after" on sundays I would not have believed that I am in the same fellowship.... MC> and southern california.... ACK! I don't care if you WERE borne and MC> raised there, darlin, the move back still was culture shock...and your MC> recovery was as much (or more!) culture shocked than the rest of MC> you... Got that right ;-) MC> yeah...I hear that...and it's hard...being rudderless in a storm MC> sometimes. Still looking, I have even gone so far as to ask the powers for guidance in that area... I'll see what happens as I continue that practice. ->> I have been hiding out at the 12&12 meeting on monday nights even if ->> I was making coffee. MC> yep. god forbid anyone should know you are NOT 'fine'... Well this past Monday I let folks know exactly what was bothering me in no small terms after reading the 6th Step... I finally grok what Billy was saying on some of his posts. MC> ah, Tim... what we do to ourselves. MC> get out of the house and go to work... somewhere... for a while.. I wish I could... can type by hunt and peck w my right hand while my left uses touch... MC> and don't bother looking for the email...seems I typed it all here. Won't... Tim.... ... Polaroids: What polar bears get from sitting on icebergs. --- PPoint 2.00 * Origin: Trudging the road in Brooklyn N.Y. (1:116/3000.13) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: E2L00003 Date: 02/15/97 From: TOM ANDERSON Time: 05:32am \/To: TIM DILL (Read 0 times) Subj: Expiration Warning TD>On (03 Feb 97) TOM ANDERSON was mumbling to TIM DILL... TD> TA> You are kidding about this aren't you? Moderator Emeritus? TD> No I am not, Rich Ward is the "Official" Moderator Emeritus TD> here, however according to his host, Sysop Gene G. Rich TD> has not polled for mail since last August (96) so I may TD> have resigned the post of "Asst" in July (96) I believe TD> that ONE of the former Mods should have the password. The reason I questioned the Moderator Emeritus is because I looked it up in the dictionary and found. "Discharged from duty with honor on account of infirmity, age, or long service." Having met Father Rich at San Diego, I can understand the title. Anyone else claiming it would seem kind of pretentious. Your logic is sound, your claim to the title.... But, that is of little consequence. Has anyone tried to get ahold of Rich? I know his health may be in question. TD> Since Rich is offline (perhaps permanently) that leaves TD> me. No that doesn't leave you Tim, that does include you. TD> The reason I believe that the former mod should be listed TD> is so the echo NEVER falls off the elist as it is NOW... Actually, the logic used in dropping echos is quite sound. If no one wants the job, the echo goes. If it's meant to be, it will be picked up by the new kids on the block. TD> We have until the 1st of March to put this back on the elist TD> so we DO NOT fall off of "fidonet.na" or the backbone... TD> This area after all is the oldest BBONED recovery echo, I think TD> we should save it. Just like sobriety, if you don't care about it. You don't deserve to reap the benefits of it. You seem to really care about it Tim. Why don't you hang on to it. The echo that is. Well sobriety too. (G) I'm digging a hole here... (Grin) You read the echo, there isn't a big rowdy crowd here. (discounting me of course (G)) The elist thing is really only a file that you can upload as needed. What could be simpler? I would do it myself, but I may not be around in awhile. My ticker isn't getting better. I, for one, would just as soon have you watch over it for us users. If you don't want the job. Others will take up the banner. This IS only a hobby. :-) TTYL TomA -=- * QMPro 1.01 41-5564 * Stagecoach -- Drama teacher --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: Lake Effect BBS 219-926-8188 (1:230/10) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: E2L00004 Date: 02/15/97 From: TOM ANDERSON Time: 05:49am \/To: JOAN REA (Read 0 times) Subj: What's Wrong with AA? JR>You liked the asking for cash for enshrining Lois' coffee pot in the love JR>archive rooms? Well grab this one. At the last GSR meeting, the big JR>question to take back to the groups was: Should we accept the offer of th JR>City of Toronto for free usage of the skydome for the next conference? JR>Remember to tell your group that, if this offer is not accepted, this may JR>well be the last conference. Are you speaking of the world conference? Like the one held in San diego. in 95? If this is so. I know that it will just move to another place, not be discontinued. There is quite a competition to have the world conference in a city. Duh, is this maybe the thin edge of the wedge JR>toward 'conference approved' being a result of a very small group of peop JR>who can interrelate outside group conscience? JR>We are self-supporting by our own contributions is not only a means of JR>deterring the donors of goods and services from controlling content (as JR>patrons do in religions). It is also a source of gaining self-esteem. I JR>am no longer a hanger-on in this world, one of the poor foolk who fill a JR>seat but have no say. The guy with the gold makes the rules? Well, I put JR>my share in the pot so I dare to have my say. Others respect AA too when JR>they understand that it's not just another grant-seeking group. Such JR>respect has become taken for granted but, I remember the days when JR>membership in AA was kept secret because members were seen as a bunch of JR>deadbeats who'd become religious nuts. JR>If we let the City of Toronto hold the purse strings at the conference, JR>what is to prevent them (or a future donor of such largess) advertise JR>booze, treatment centers, political parties........gets scary eh? on the JR>hall walls? Would people then think AA is republican? Backs XYZ Treamen JR>Center? If the limit of a legacy is still $365.00 from an AA member and JR>legacies from non-members are discouraged, how is it that the taxpayers o JR>Toronto can contribute the venue rent-free? JR>NOW!! Here's the clincher!! There is a lot of heavy argument going on in JR>agreement to having Toronto do this. JR>Yep folks, that's where these little avoidances of traditions lead, like JR>having a prayer from one specific religion enshrined in practice because JR>anyone who brings the point up that we're not allied with any sect is JR>chastized and their feelings minimized. Doesn't happen? Re-read the las JR>few weeks posts. 'Good enough the enemy of all progress.' and allowing th JR>inroads of any religion's basic tenets has been the 'good enough' of AA f JR>several years now. It is against the traditions and concepts to allow the hall to be given freely for our use. You said it all in a nutshell here Kiddo :-) I'm sure they will debate it and see the reasoning. JR>Another practice that goes against traditions is deciding that 'He who ha JR>the longest sobriety has the strongest voice.' We have no leaders. We p JR>principles before personalities. Guruship does not come with y our 10-ye JR>cake. (no cakes in the big book either _ on the first 164 pages where JR>we're tole PRECISELY how the first 100 got and stayed sober). I have not JR>had a drink for nearly 27 years and I am no further from disaster that an JR>other member who's working the program to the best of their ability. We don't do cakes in this neck of the woods. It's a local custom. Consider that the big book does not prohibit cakes either. (G) It's all about getting and staying sober. The big blue book is a guide line, not a rule book. I'm not a head nodder at meetings but if you're right, you're right. (this from the big book entitled as Tom sees it) Isn't the frustration fun (G) The KISS system of sobriety has worked for me for awhile and I will continue to enjoy it and my surroundings for as long as I'm able.... Thats not to say I don't enjoy a good disagreement. I just hope I can keep rackin up the days till it's over. Good to hear from you Joan. Get it off your chest any time you want. (grin) They let me go back to work and I'm getting behind in my home stuff. Taxes to do yet and they owe ME money.... My bride is working bunches also. Payday will be fun again but geeeez. They want you to work for it... :-) TTYL Keep commin back ! TomA -=- * QMPro 1.01 41-5564 * Born to be Wiiiillllllddddddddddd --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: Lake Effect BBS 219-926-8188 (1:230/10) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: E2L00005 Date: 02/15/97 From: TOM ANDERSON Time: 06:07am \/To: BOB PERLITZ (Read 0 times) Subj: What's Wrong with AA? Hi there friend robert.... BP>Oh No! Now I'm being attacked for being a bleeding heart!!! (I'M ONLY BP>KIDDING....I know that the above was not and attacked. However, if you BP>have been reading the threads here for the past month you may chuckle at BP>how ironic it is for me to receive your comments). I'm not attacking. The knife seen there in your back isn't mine. (G) I've been busy lately and don't follow the whole thread as I should. I respond to a msg, not so much the whole thread. BP>Anyway, I do understand that AA must maintain a singleness of purpose. BP>However, at an open-speakers meeting I see nothing wrong with someone BP>explaining how their experience with other drugs was inter-twined with BP>their use and abuse of alcohol. In my 20 years of sobriety in AA I have BP>NEVER heard a case history about drug use that I felt was not somehow BP>beneficial to my recovery. Thus I believe that it is unnecessary to put BP>such a strong emphasis on this issue at the start of every meeting. Here again, it's a local thing. We don't put a strong emphasis on it here. What we do, if the person starts talking about their drug use and not mentioning the booze, we will ask them if alcohol was a problem also. Suprisingly enough, a few weren't boozers to. We will then direct them to the proper meeting. If they did both, we will set through the drug story. They usually tell the booze story also. The wheel that squeaks the loudest gets the grease. We try to grease where it's needed. I personally didn't use anything but alcohol, my friends aren't all that way. But, when we are in an AA meeting and telling our stories, it's the booze that we talk about. The other stuff can be mentioned, just not dwelled upon. BP>When I was new to AA I found that if someone gave a case history that BP>was in any way inappropriate, their sponsor or another group member would BP>speak to them about it later and try to explain their point. Of course BP>the member was not "forced" to change anything the next time he or she BP>spoke. (And many of them didn't--and many of them aren't alive today). BP>I always like to stick with what my sponsor told me when I started, BP>"There are no rules in AA--but there are some "pretty darn well BP>betters". Exactly my point (I guess...?) Once the initial horrors are brought out in our lives, we hopefully try to work on the areas that continue to give us trouble. The mind altering stuff was actually the tip of the Ice burg. But, I still say that AA is for the alcoholic part of our history. Cause I don't want to loose AA to the dilution it can experience if we let it slip into oblivion. Let others do that, we will continue to be the outfit they can copy from. (G) Keep commin back ! TomA -=- * QMPro 1.01 41-5564 * Hard Work never killed anyone, so why chance it? --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: Lake Effect BBS 219-926-8188 (1:230/10) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: E2L00006 Date: 02/15/97 From: TOM ANDERSON Time: 06:15am \/To: JOAN REA (Read 0 times) Subj: What's Wrong with AA? JR>Tom, I've been reading a lot here and finding it quite interesting. It's JR>good to be free enough and solid enough in sobriety to be able to questio JR>the dogma. JR>One thing that puzzles me is the recurrent statements of how many have JR>recovered in AA-as-it-is. Nobody pauses a moment to remember all those w JR>died because they were not welcomed, they couldn't identify with a greco- JR>roman, judeo-christian mind set, they were not encouraged to take a JR>COMPLETE inventory and gave up hope when they recognized their moral JR>defects but were not made aware of the strengths that made recovery JR>possible, and so on. JR>It's the old, 'I'm on, pull in the rope' attitude of exalting those who JR>believe as I do and excluding those who don't. JR>Was it better in the old days? Perhaps we should ask was it more vibrant JR>Enthusiasm means God within. Loving joy has deteriorated into book JR>thumping dogma. Did Bill quote chapter and verso to Bob? I think not, h JR>says he used the language of the heart. Should people who are drunk be JR>allowed at meetings? Bob was literally under the table at first contact. JR>Should cross addicted people be shunned (the severest form of punishment JR>for most humans)? Well. Bob was addicted to other things as was Bill. JR>fact Bill wrote Twelve Steps and Twelve Traditions early on in his sobrie JR>while under the influence of mood altering chemicals that he was taking t JR>alleviate severe depression. This book was written and the royalties went JR>to Bill and Lois to support them after Lois could no longer work outside JR>the home. JR>Let's not develop a Saint William or Saint Robert attitude here. These JR>were real people and. because that is true, we can do what they did. The JR>is now hope for the alcoholic. JR>By golly I do get carried away don't I? JR>I don't want to change AA. I want to return to AA from all the psycho JR>babble and treatment center folderol. JR>And yes, I am one of those 25+ book thumpers. A "Gramma to tell about th JR>good ol'days" JR>Closing before I take up a whole buffer........Joan, sober since before t JR>70's changeover. Wow Joan,..... I'm overwhelmed at your diatribe.... Were you bouncing up and down on the seat as you typed? (grin) You and I see things pretty much the same way here. Our little club has a big ol' hospital across the street. They send all their people over to us to get em sober. They charge a fortune and take the credit..... Of course we don't turn anyone away.... But we sure could save em a lot of dough. Keepin it simple isn't as easy as it used to be is it.... Gotta go. Spent a lot of time trying to catch up on my mail and I have to budget my time more. (Darn it...) Keep commin back ! I look forward to your posts. TomA -=- * QMPro 1.01 41-5564 * Buddhism means never having to say you're sorry. --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: Lake Effect BBS 219-926-8188 (1:230/10) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: E2M00000 Date: 02/16/97 From: MARIE WEIDEMANN Time: 12:35am \/To: SLOW (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: it is not aa Sl> it is not aa that is wrong it is people like you that give aa a bad Sl> name did you get sober in aa or did you have a problem at all i know Sl> that i got sober throught aa and i still go to help others that is what Sl> i'm to do to stay sober if you don't like what is going on get with Sl> your g.s.r. and tell that person and try to change it don't throw the Sl> hole bushel out because you don't like the things one or two people are Sl> doing as for where the program came from bill must have been told to Sl> use the stuff he got to help others and i think he has if you stop and Sl> look aa has a lot better rate of recovery than any other type of Sl> recovery group going that i know of will i hope this letter finds you Sl> in a sober state and happy Responding to someone with negativities, as you have above, is not what this echo is all about...this is an echo to share hopes, experiences and strength...This should be done in an uplifting manner...Not everyone here agrees with everyone else but it is discussed in a positive and respectful manner... We are all entitled to our own opinions and whatever works for someone is good for *that* person. This echo is not only for AA, by the way, it is for any recovery group at all...some of the other groups do not work the steps in the same way... Light, Love and Laughter Marie W. - Starwitch ... Overflow error in COFFEE.POT: FILTER.BAT not found. ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: Phoenix Rising*Wilkes-Barre PA*Starwitch (717)822-2017 (1:268/442) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: E2M00001 Date: 02/16/97 From: MARIE WEIDEMANN Time: 12:35am \/To: KELLY HOUGHTON (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: recovery 1/2 KH> The big S word. KH> KH> BV: Don't worry Kelly I won't call them but you should call KH> BV: ME! your feelings aren't much different than many of us felt at KH> BV: one time or another, most of us if we are honest have thought of KH> BV: the big S word. KH> KH> Also if you think about it (the S word) when you are at the point KH> that I am at right now, you are killing yourself just slower than you KH> would by putting the gun to your head and pulling the trigger. You KH> get to a point that you just don't care anymore and you stop taking KH> care of yourself and it is a sad thing for your loved ones to have to KH> watch as you wither away in self pity. I don't want to do this KH> anymore. Is there any happiness out there anywhere? Hi Kelly, just a post to let you know that you are welcome here and I hope you will talk to us...most here do not judge..they have been there. You are not alone, you have friends...again, welcome. Light, Love and Laughter Marie W. - Starwitch ... Instant Human: Just Add Coffee! ___ Blue Wave/QWK v2.12 --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: Phoenix Rising*Wilkes-Barre PA*Starwitch (717)822-2017 (1:268/442) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: E2M00002 Date: 02/16/97 From: LEO MINKIEWICZ Time: 03:22am \/To: MARIE WEIDEMANN (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: recovery 1/2 MW> KH> The big S word. MW> KH> MW> KH> BV: Don't worry Kelly I won't call them but you should call MW> KH> BV: ME! your feelings aren't much different than many of us felt at MW> KH> BV: one time or another, most of us if we are honest have thought of MW> KH> BV: the big S word. MW> KH> MW> KH> Also if you think about it (the S word) when you are at the point MW> KH> that I am at right now, you are killing yourself just slower than ou MW> KH> would by putting the gun to your head and pulling the trigger. You MW> KH> get to a point that you just don't care anymore and you stop taking MW> KH> care of yourself and it is a sad thing for your loved ones to have o MW> KH> watch as you wither away in self pity. I don't want to do this MW> KH> anymore. Is there any happiness out there anywhere? MW> MW> Hi Kelly, just a post to let you know that you are welcome here and I MW> hope you will talk to us...most here do not judge..they have been there. MW> You are not alone, you have friends...again, welcome. MW> MW> MW> Light, Love and Laughter MW> Marie W. - Starwitch MW> Hello Kelly, I would like to welcome you here also and to ley you know that you are not alone in the feelings that you are going thru we all have been there in one form or another This to will pass grab yourself a sponcer asupport group and go to meetings Boy did I hate to hear those words but I followed them and am sober clean happy joyious and free today Love Leo JUST FOR TODAY DON'T THINK DON'T DRINK GO TO A MEETING --- GEcho 1.00 * Origin: Phoenix Rising*Wilkes-Barre PA*Starwitch (717)822-2017 (1:268/442)