--------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: E2F00002 Date: 02/08/97 From: OTIS Time: 06:34pm \/To: BILL OXFORD (Read 0 times) Subj: Alcan HI Bill Ot> Just to let you know your thoughts have reached here to the Ot> Great Pacific South West. BO> B.C. eh? You ever make it up to Laird Hot Springs? I did the BO> Alcan a few times and that was one place we'd always stop. To be honest I have never heard of that particular Hot Spring. I am assuming it is near Kitimat with your reference to Alcan. Up there I made it as far as Smithers which is approx. 150 hundred miles from there and approx. 700 from here. Altho I have been the Nakusp Hot Springs which is the lower east central part of the province on the Arrow Lakes which are the Lakes backup up from the dam near the border on the Columbia River. The Hot Spring in this area is called Harrison. Take Care Bill "Just For Today" Otis --- Ezycom V1.20 * Origin: Jack Squat 604-531-7370 White Rock B.C. (1:153/9123) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: E2F00003 Date: 02/10/97 From: KELLY HOUGHTON Time: 09:42am \/To: BILL VICKERS (Read 0 times) Subj: recovery 1/2 Bill, received your letter. I am glad to see that other people have some of the same things bothering them as do I,not that I am glad they have those problems just that o.k. see kelly your not the only one. BV: Well Kelly, there was a time in my life that I also thought that BV: God had given up on me and that all the bad things that happened BV: was due to the fact that God hated me. But as I got a little BV: sobriety under my belt and started working the steps I had to BV: start believing in God as I understand (him - her makes no BV: difference) and what I've come to understand is that all the BV: things that happened was for two reasons. BV: 1. It was a growing experience. BV: 2. So that when the day came that I'd had enough with the way BV: my life had been going and asked for help that he'd be there BV: to help me and I'd appreciate it.(being grateful might be a BV: better word.) I can't see why God would want to hurt me so bad just to teach me or show me something. I know they say God works in mysterious ways and I have also heard that you inherit the sins of the past from your family. I do not want this disease nor do I wish it upon anyone. I wouldn't wish this disease on my worst enemy. I don't want to offend anybody on this bbs about religion so I won't get in to it to much, because I do not know enough about it myself. I read in the bible somewhere that it said, " I will never give you more than you can handle, so far I guess that is true sense I am still here. I do have a problem with that verse though. If he or she(God) doesn't give you more than you can handle then why do some people commit suicide. If that verse was true in my opinion then no one would ever commit suicide. I do trust God very much but the bible has me wondering if man over the many years have manipulated it or change it some how. Just as I was writing that something came in to my mind. I don't trust man. Man is my problem man does everything to destroy himself. It is funny though that I can go to three different churches of different denominations and ask about a verse in the bible to all three priest and get three different versions of what it means, again I am still dealing with men.They all say God talked to them. So why didn't they all have the same meaning for that verse. This is why religion confusses me. BV: Yes Kelly my friend I did as have many other fellow members not BV: to mention that there are normies out there that also have the BV: same feelings! But the diff between them and us is that they have BV: no place to go...We Do. You see those were the type of feelings BV: that got me back to AA and have a strong desire to work the steps BV: as best and as hard as I could because I couldn't live like that BV: any more, I wanted to change and having been in AA before and BV: have'n seen what it could do in the lives of others I new that if BV: I had the honesty, openmind and the willingness to work hard at BV: changing that God would make it happen, through the help of other BV: AA's. I do think that AA can help people though I did not go to many meeting (again that deals with being around people I do not know and that makes me very uncomfortable. It seemed to me at the meetings that I did go to that the people there were so judgementle of the other members and everybody was trying to better the other members story that he or she had shared with the group. I have always had a very bad fear of talking in front of people, you know like they made us do back in school,getting up in front of everybody an talking. I feared that so bad that I made myself sick with worrying and stressing myself out about it. I still have that fear today. But again these meetings deal with our higher power in which I think he hates me so what good would it do going. I won't even go in to church,because most churches ask if there are any knew people here and that involves me having to be noticed or me having to stand up and introduce myself. didn't' I say I wasn't going to go in to religion to much.HE HE HA HA. The big S word. BV: Don't worry Kelly I won't call them but you should call BV: ME! your feelings aren't much different than many of us felt at BV: one time or another, most of us if we are honest have thought of BV: the big S word. Also if you think about it (the S word) when you are at the point that I am at right now, you are killing yourself just slower than you would by putting the gun to your head and pulling the trigger. You get to a point that you just don't care anymore and you stop taking care of yourself and it is a sad thing for your loved ones to have to watch as you wither away in self pity. I don't want to do this anymore. Is there any happiness out there anywhere? --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: Coffee House BBS, Manitou Springs CO (719) 685-0695 (1:128/76) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: E2F00004 Date: 02/10/97 From: KELLY HOUGHTON Time: 09:43am \/To: BILL VICKERS (Read 0 times) Subj: recovery 2/2 Then there is the G word. Guilt. I tell you what. I feel guilty for things that I had nothing to do with and that is one thing that I really hate. I feel guilty that the people in other nations along with us have starving people in them and I can't do much to help them. I feel guilty for being sad and depressed about my life when there are people out there who have it worst than I do. People have said that to me to. Why are you so unhappy? You have it alot better than alot of people. I explain to them that I can't help it. I have something that bothers me and I can not help it if it is lessor than or more than someone elses problems,it is still a problem that bothers me. I can see nothing that is worst than self hatered and feeling that God hates you. There is no where to go to get away from that.... I feel guilty reading about some of your problems that you have had and wrote to me about. They are hard ones, any divorce can be difficult and the things that go along with divorce. What do I have to be so unhappy about? you seem to of went down a bumpier road than I did. So what do I have to be so unhappy about? Can't really say but I am. I do have a Dr. appointment coming up. I could no longer stand the depression so I have taken some steps to hopefully remedy the problem, I, as you did back when you sobered up do not want to go on like this. BV: You wanted to know a little about me huh...Well I'm 44 and been BV: sober this time 4 1/2 yrs, I started out trying to sober up BV: almost 15 yrs ago. I started out when I was 3yrs old and my BV: oldman gave me a beer, I don't remember getting drunk but I do BV: remember feeling like I was a big boy, and that set a pattern BV: that almost killed me. I figured that if booze made me feel BV: better about myself then I wouldn't ever have to feel inferiour BV: anymore.. I could be anybody I wanted (I was always a little BV: different than the other kids). I spent 25 yrs driving trucks BV: from coast to coast, and my road like many others hasn't been BV: smooth and a little over traveled. I'm on my third marriage (I BV: have a black belt alonon now) been in a couple of treatment BV: centers and shuned by friends and family, locked up and all the BV: other things that made what I am today. I don't drive a truck BV: anymore, I work as a maintenance tech at a resadentual treatment BV: center for kids (nowhere as much money but I'm doing what I BV: like). I've found that every thing we need is taken care of and BV: the the things I think we need will be taken care of in a better BV: way than I thought, life is good Kelly, especially when I BV: remember what it used to be like. My father never let me have any of his beer but when he passed out in his chair I would go and drink the rest of the beer in the can. I to felt like a big man, I was drinking beer like the adults did. I was bad. As you, that was my downfall also. First time I ever really got drunk I was 12,went to the park with my best friend and a older boy. We drank a pint of segrems 7, that is the first time I remember getting drunk,but it also was my first blackout. I got in a fight with my best friend and to this day I can not remember it. That night after drinking and getting drunk I had to go and face the parents (drunk at 12yrs old) needless to say I was scared to death,got home and my dad was furious and all I could say to him was, Look dad I look just like you now. I have been in the restaurant business for all my working yrs.which has been about 17yrs. I really hate the business now,loved it for the first 12yrs now am burned out and tired of it. Restaurants really have a way of using people and burning them out. That is another problem of mine, I do not know how to do anything other than restaurant and I hate it,don't want to spend the rest of my life doing something that I hate especially if it is something that I have to do five to six days a week. The fear of change though keeps creeping in and the fact that I do not know how to do anything else and fear even trying. Why you might ask? Because I have no selfconfidence or esteeme for that matter. I too in my mind was different from the other kids. I though am one of those people that don't care what you look like or what color your skin is or even what religion you are. I base how I like people on how they treat me and other people. I will always remember this one commercial that says, We are all one race the human race. And that is so true no matter what some people think. You said that you like doing what you are doing now. Doesn't that make all the difference in the world when you like going to your job or just like what you are doing. I will be calling you in the future but right now I have to go I have typers cramp...... By the way can I have a copy of that key that you have??? ha ha he he sorry about the spelling and the poor punctuation I haven't written a letter or anything since I got out of school. your knew friend kelly thanks for being there to listen as I babble on.! --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: Coffee House BBS, Manitou Springs CO (719) 685-0695 (1:128/76) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: E2F00005 Date: 02/10/97 From: MATRIKA Time: 10:15am \/To: EDWARD SOTT (Read 0 times) Subj: Interesting I think Sip_Coda is a fido echo - but this was a long time ago that I saw it, so I don't know if it's still here. . I wish I could share more, but my Dad - not the perp - is dying of cancer, not expected to make it out of the hospital barring a miracle, magic or some other name for Divine Interevention, Spiritual help, what have you. So I'm not taking time to reply much to anything today. I'm trying to stay available to help my STEP-mom - also not the perp, which doesn't leave much left so I'm sure you can guess who it was - may need me and I reply on-line. (And don't want to do anything else - THIS is too darn complicated for me. I don't need more technical nonsense to scatter my confused mind, but thanks for offering - GRIN) --- TriToss (tm) Professional 10.0 - #66 * Origin: Keystone BBS * Shrewsbury, MA * 508-753-3767 (1:322/743.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: E2F00006 Date: 02/09/97 From: RON BUJOK Time: 05:20pm \/To: MATRIKA (Read 0 times) Subj: Options -=> Matrika said to Willie <=- Ma> other stuff too. FOR ME that would be a lot of help, I think. So Ma> where have all the old-timers gone? I don't know, but I have a clue - Ma> dropped out due to the same problems, boredom and nobody to share as No, many of the old-timers are still around. One of the meetings I attend has several. Nearly 100 years of sobriety can be tallied with 3-4 that come. In the following I use the term "us" and it is because many of us have discussed the same thing. Things are different for us in sobriety. Too many meetings do the AA waltz...steps 1,2,3 repeat. There isn't much danger of us drinking again, but we still have to deal with life on life's terms and all of us are aware that alcohol is cunning, baffling, powerful, and PATIENT! Our problems change as our sobriety increases. What worked for us early in sobriety doesn't always work today. So we have to find solutions that do work. We also don't abandon the newcomer or those with lesser sober time. We are often at these meetings willing to share our experience, strength, and hope. The newcomer certainly reminds me of where I was and continues my resolve to not return. And, incidently, I still don't consider myself an old-timer...and I have 21 years. Ma> when your having a really bad day. On the other hand, one doesn't Ma> want to disillusion the newcomers and have them leave thinking AA Ma> doesn't work, if one shares honestly. It's become a dilemna for me, Ma> most certainly. . Should be no dilemna. Share openly and honestly. My life has had many serious upheavals in sobriety, yet I never HAD to drink because of them thanks to this simple program. When I share, I talk about these things. I particularly stress the fact that life and life's problems don't go away just because I am not drinking. I also stress that drinking is NOT the solution. This sort of E,S,& H lets the newcomer know there is continued hope and this program really does work. Ma> I'm still a long way from "practising these principles in all my Ma> affairs (endeavors)", so I guess I have got to keep working on it. Me too, but I'm getting better at it. ... Higher Powered ___ Blue Wave/OS2 v2.30 --- QScan/PCB v1.16b / 01-0075 * Origin: PSL Online Houston, TX 713-442-6704 @psl-online.com (1:106/6256) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: E2F00007 Date: 02/09/97 From: BOB PERLITZ Time: 09:50pm \/To: BILL VICKERS (Read 0 times) Subj: Whats right with AA BV>Hello all! BV>As alcoholics we alway seem to focus on whats wrong with something and BV>try to change it to suit ourselfs at least from my observervation (and BV>personal experience :) BV>Why don't we try to figure out whats right with AA, I know I'd feel BV>better after reading something possitive than negative ! Your message really got me thinking. In my opinion, what is right with AA? I could list a thousand things that are "right" with the program but I want to focus on the one thing that I find MOST right with the program. And to me it would have to be the 12 Steps! Having multiple addictions and participating in more than one program, I have gained a remarkable respect for those God-given steps. Over twenty years ago I came to AA after surrendering to my powerlessness over alcohol. I was fortunate enough to stay sober for the past 20+ years. In the mean time, I stopped attending AA and working those steps. While I didn't drink, I did become addicted to gambling and found myself in GA almost 2 years ago. Now that I have been using those same steps again to recover from another insidious addiction I thank God everyday for the gift of those steps. They have not failed me. When I practice them to the best of my ability I can live again. Thanks for allowing me to share. Have a happy 24! Bob --- * OLXWin 1.00 * Unable to locate Coffee -- Operator Halted! --- WILDMAIL!/WC v4.12 * Origin: Fresh Start BBS * Edison NJ * (908) 248-1678 * (1:107/310.0) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: E2F00008 Date: 02/10/97 From: KELLY HOUGHTON Time: 02:52pm \/To: EDWARD SOTT (Read 0 times) Subj: codependency Hey Edward, I hope you don't mind me cutting in but could you tell me what your defanition of codependency is. kelly --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: Coffee House BBS, Manitou Springs CO (719) 685-0695 (1:128/76) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: E2F00009 Date: 02/10/97 From: BILL VICKERS Time: 10:07pm \/To: KELLY HOUGHTON (Read 0 times) Subj: Re: recovery 1/2 Howdy Kelly, Just a quick reply to see how your day went? For me it was a typical Monday :) I got your message but went to a meeting tonight and I'm tired, but I didn't want to think I forgot ya . I'll set down when I get home from work tomarrow and reply to your message. You all ready have the "key".....thats wy all of a sudden you were able to get the recovery echos on coffee house!! Thanks to Jim Taylor the coffee house sysop! When I had problems with Elec. locksmith, and new what was happening I called out Jim for help and then saw where you were having to same prob and had Jim set you up (neat huh). What we are working ( Jim ) on now is a way that you and I can reply in a more private manner, I noticed that you are using a off line reader? If you are just go in and tag area 1 (comments to the sysop) and what I'll do is upload my mail to you there and you do the same but in reverse (I address it to you and you address it to me) and that way nobody but the 2 of us can see what we write! When your all set up let me know and we'll give it a try, If you already check to see if Jim has lift you any messages there when you log on then you will see messages addressed to you from me just like the messages you get from Jim :) Gotta go, getting late my friend, 1Day@aTime, Bill ... "And now the penguin on top of your television set will explode." ___ Blue Wave/DOS v2.30 [NR] --- Maximus 2.02 * Origin: Coffee House BBS, Manitou Springs CO (719) 685-0695 (1:128/76) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: E2G00000 Date: 02/11/97 From: MARGE CLARK Time: 09:42am \/To: TIM DILL (Read 0 times) Subj: What's Wrong with Me I thought I heard Tim Dill (1:116/3000.13) say: ->> Marge, I did know, after the fact. I had goups in CA that had GSR's ->> not once did any of those GSR's pass on the info to the groups that ->> were meeting in that club where I got sober. Tim, I can't address that. I do know that in MY experience, here in Nashville...the groups that meet in the clubhouse where I got sober never have anyone show up at the business meetings...the other groups DO... and the GSR reports are normally read/discussed at business meetings... so most folks at the clubhouse would never know... but I am ready to bet money that you DID show up at those meetings. and it's obvious the information chain was broken. ->> Just one of those resentments that are popping up now that I have ->> time to cultivate them. yes...I've noticed. seems to me you've been given a REAL gift...a time to do some stuff...for you and for others, right now... brace yourself for a nagging email... --- msged 2.06 * Origin: Promises BBS, Nashville, TN (615)367-4410 (1:116/3000.5) --------------- FIDO MESSAGE AREA==> TOPIC: 231 RECOVERY Ref: E2G00001 Date: 02/11/97 From: MARGE CLARK Time: 09:47am \/To: TIM DILL (Read 0 times) Subj: What's Wrong with me I thought I heard Tim Dill (1:116/3000.13) say: ->> Marge, I have been feeling very uncomfortable here in NYC meetings ->> so there had to be a problem with the system (so my logical mind says) of course. they don't do it right. "we did it THIS way in California..." it is ALWAYS california that quote refers to...dunno why... ->> It's another one of my ongoing spiritual crises. and, this time, not one you necessarily manufactured. there is SO much difference between clubhouse meetings and hanging out, and small group in a basement meetings. HUGE difference. and then there's brooklyn and southern california.... ACK! I don't care if you WERE borne and raised there, darlin, the move back still was culture shock...and your recovery was as much (or more!) culture shocked than the rest of you... ->> I realized that MY WAY AINT WORKING ANY MORE...... drats! ->> There you have it. I was using the argument to distract me from ->> that uncomfortable feeling in the pit of my stomach. oh...nooooo. ick... ->> I was running as fast as I could to not feel it. I was keeping my ->> head busy. I was living there. I have yet to find another sponsor ->> that I could "click" with. I found a few, but some if not most ->> of the 10+ folks here have not worked the steps (at their own admission) ->> so the search is still on. yeah...I hear that...and it's hard...being rudderless in a storm sometimes. ->> I have forgotten the simplest things. Gratitude....prayer... ditations. ->> It shows in my 'tude. I was picking at a scab on my psyche. yep. ->> I have been hiding out at the 12&12 meeting on monday nights even if ->> I was making coffee. yep. god forbid anyone should know you are NOT 'fine'... ->> I wanted a vacation, to recharge. Instead I got the crazies.... ->> I knew that I was way out there as soon as I saw people agreeing with ->> me here. no comment...but a laugh out loud!!!! I do love it... ->> I saw others trying to force me to "think into better actions" so I ->> retaliated in kind. ->> My thinking, ah that blob of gray jello between my ears has placed ->> me on "the outside" again. yep. ->> So I thought like an outsider. ->> Not healthy ya ask me... ->> My life as a MEMBER has not been easy here, the transition was not the ->> way I painted it. So I rebelled... how DARE it not be how you wanted it. my 'cross the hall' sponsor talks about needing to know how something is gonna look.... that even with all the faith that the future, that whatever is gonna be what she needs and what is good for her...she still wants to know what it's gonna look like. and it doesn't look like you thought it would. ->> Gack... I can't believe how stupid I was... I fell into the pitfall ->> and I saw no way out... until I went to the Sunday meeting and ->> heard what I needed to hear. ->> and bottomed out on my stuff.... ->> I have too much time on my hands ;-) yep. have you asked the brooklyn intergroup if you can stuff envelopes or answer phones or do SOMETHING for them? intergroup offices always need volunteers. have you asked the brooklyn intergroup if they have a 12 step list...list of folks to call when someone needs an AA... or if they have a speaker list. what service opportunities there are? if they don't have any jobs going begging...... hmmm. if you were here in nashville and for one reason or other couldn't do volunteer work at central office and were low on the list for speakers, etc... I'd suggest you get yourself down to the union rescue mission and see if they need someone to help serve lunch or dinner... this, too, is a way to give back... sort of a there but for the grace of whoever... "yon timothy has a lean and hungry look. he thinks too much, such men are dangerous" Shakespeare didn't add 'to themselves'... but he could/should have. ah, Tim... what we do to ourselves. get out of the house and go to work... somewhere... for a while.. and don't bother looking for the email...seems I typed it all here. --- msged 2.06 * Origin: Promises BBS, Nashville, TN (615)367-4410 (1:116/3000.5)